# Active shooter at El Paso Walmart; at least 18 shot \[3-AUG-2019\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 3, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124 "2019-08-03T18:18:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/101 "2019-08-06T02:46:12Z")
There is one (arguable) reason to treat the manifesto seriously: to point out just how much of it sounds like a lot of conservatives these days, and as a demonstration of what Trumpian Fox News rhetoric leads to. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/102 "2019-08-06T03:10:32Z")
Earlier this evening, a witness was interviewed on MSNBC, and referred to him as “that evil Satan thing.” I think she summed it up completely this way. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/103 "2019-08-06T03:50:41Z")
As a recent adherent of The Satanic Temple, I have to object to that mischaracterization of Satan. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/104 "2019-08-06T05:30:29Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > There is one (arguable) reason to treat the manifesto seriously: to point out just how much of it sounds like a lot of conservatives these days, and as a demonstration of what Trumpian Fox News rhetoric leads to. I actually found the manifesto to be surprisingly heavy on left-wing themes: rantings about the evils of corporations, automation, basic universal income, environmentalism, etc. > [@](#): > > Achieving ambitions social projects like universal healthcare and UBI would become far more likely to succeed if tens of millions of dependents are removed. > [@](#): > > The American lifestyle affords our citizens an incredible quality of life. However, our lifestyle is destroying the environment of our country. The decimation of the environment is creating a massive burden for future generations. Corporations are heading the destruction of our environment by shamelessly overharvesting resources. This has been a problem for decades. For example, this phenomenon is brilliantly portrayed in the decades old classic “The Lorax”. Water sheds around the > country, especially in agricultural areas, are being depleted. Fresh water is being polluted from farming and oil drilling operations. Consumer culture is creating thousands of tons of unnecessary plastic waste and electronic waste, and recycling to help slow this down is almost non-existent. Urban sprawl creates inefficient cities which unnecessarily destroys millions of acres of land. We even use god knows how > many trees worth of paper towels just wipe water off our hands. Everything I have seen and heard in my short life has led me to believe that the average American isn’t willing to change their lifestyle, even if the changes only cause a slight inconvenience. The government is unwilling to tackle these issues beyond empty promises since they are owned by corporations. Corporations that also like immigration because more people means a bigger market for their products. I just want to say that I love the people of this country, but god damn most of y’all are just too stubborn to change your lifestyle. So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. If we can get rid of enough people, then our way of life can become more sustainable. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/105 "2019-08-06T07:10:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I actually found the manifesto to be surprisingly heavy on left-wing themes: rantings about the evils of corporations, automation, basic universal income, environmentalism, etc. No one ever said a racist couldn’t want a better life for white people. But his solutions show that that better life should be _just for them_. And there he parts ways with those who want a better life for _everyone_. I don’t believe anyone on the left has ever proposed just eliminating entire populations to achieve their goals. “Achieving ambitions social projects like universal healthcare and UBI would become far **more likely to succeed if tens of millions of dependents are removed.** ” “So the next logical step is to decrease the number of people in America using resources. **If we can get rid of enough people** , then our way of life can become more sustainable.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/106 "2019-08-06T09:45:15Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I agree. I don’t give a fuck why he did it and I don’t approve of links to and quotes from his so-called “manifesto.” In these cases, the shooter’s name should not even be released. He should be afforded no recognition whatsoever. Wonderella [has a better suggestion](http://nonadventures.com/2015/06/20/the-some-of-all-fears/) on those lines… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/107 "2019-08-06T10:04:39Z")
While I agree we don’t want to glamorize these assholes when it comes to their manifestos I don’t want all access blocked. Why should I rely on some reporter’s summary of what these guys say? Maybe I want to see for myself so I can draw my own conclusions. It’s a dilemma of wanting one thing at the same time as wanting another. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/108 "2019-08-06T14:05:42Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > While I agree we don’t want to glamorize these assholes when it comes to their manifestos I don’t want all access blocked. Why should I rely on some reporter’s summary of what these guys say? Maybe I want to see for myself so I can draw my own conclusions. > > It’s a dilemma of wanting one thing at the same time as wanting another. Draw what conclusions? That the guy is a hateful, deranged, lunatic criminal? I’m not saying the content has to be “blocked.” A link, fine, if you really have to know the details, not that the details are original or surprising. I just don’t want to see his message on the (virtual) front page of every (virtual) publication going. That accomplishes his goals for him. From Hell, he can cry out, “Mission accomplished!” (Poetically speaking, of course.) It isn’t really a dilemma, because you KNOW what the “manifesto” (what a glorified term to apply to something that’s only good for wiping shit off someone’s ass) says before you even read it, don’t you? These guys shouldn’t be given the publicity they seek. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/109 "2019-08-06T14:12:45Z")
Calling him “Evil Satan Thing” is just trying to make him otherworldly and avoid asking questions about why he did what he did and why he picked the victims he picked. He also wasn’t “crazy” or mentally ill. He made intricate plans and drove 9 hours to do what he did. It was premeditated and well thought out. He was a person filled with anger and hate and easy access to guns made him deadly and an ongoing long time political strategy by one of our political parties pointed him in a very specific direction. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/110 "2019-08-06T14:54:32Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > … I don’t believe anyone on the left has ever proposed just eliminating entire populations to achieve their goals. … This isn’t the right thread for an extended discussion on this point, so I’ll just note my disagreement and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/111 "2019-08-06T15:13:23Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It isn’t really a dilemma, because you KNOW what the “manifesto” (what a glorified term to apply to something that’s only good for wiping shit off someone’s ass) says before you even read it, don’t you? No; I don’t. That’s why I read them: to find out. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/112 "2019-08-06T15:43:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No; I don’t. That’s why I read them: to find out. Right :dubious: And each of these hateful documents is quite different from all the others? And you learn something 1) new, 2) useful, 3) enlightening, and 4) something you weren’t expecting every time you read one of them, do you? Like I said, I’m not for BLOCKING the information. But I don’t want to see the message magnified, glorified, shouted from the rooftops, and proclaimed throughout the land like the shooter intended for it to be. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/113 "2019-08-06T15:55:30Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Right :dubious: And each of these hateful documents is quite different from all the others? And you learn something 1) new, 2) useful, 3) enlightening, and 4) something you weren’t expecting every time you read one of them, do you? > > Like I said, I’m not for BLOCKING the information. But I don’t want to see the message magnified, glorified, shouted from the rooftops, and proclaimed throughout the land like the shooter intended for it to be. Yeah, I do. Ted Kaczynski was remarkably coherent in about two-thirds of his manifesto, and completely off-the-rails in the rest. Marcus Applewhite was completely off-the-rails in his writings and teachings, like 100% of the time. Jim Jones said a lot of good things early on and advocated for things that many people wanted and liked to hear, but the crazy just kept getting ratcheed up as his paranoia and drug use took a stronger hold on him. And this idiot in El Paso is coherent but stupidly wrong, making bad _a priori_ assumptions in every single point he tries to make. And here’s the thing: our society is filled with people doing shit because they had incomplete information and didn’t know it, had bad information and didn’t know it and in many cases, were utterly unable to properly weigh what is good and what is bad information. From my point of view, this includes every single person who believes in a deity, so I have a vested interest in trying to understand how delusional, crazy people think and why they behave the way that they do: I am surrounded by them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/114 "2019-08-06T16:55:33Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I actually found the manifesto to be surprisingly heavy on left-wing themes: rantings about the evils of corporations, automation, basic universal income, environmentalism, etc. Nope, what you saw there was just the logical result of twisting environmentalism to make it say that ‘we should be against immigrants’. This has been an already old idea and it has been used even by some misguided conservatives in the SDMB, basically it is Greenwashing gone nativist. [https://www.thenation.com/article/greenwashing-nativism/](https://www.thenation.com/article/greenwashing-nativism/) As I noticed, in the SDMB, it seemed that many conservatives had dropped that idea, but one recent post from one recently departed right wing poster and this incident shows that the dumb idea continues to grow in the right wing disinformation sphere. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2019, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/115 "2019-08-06T17:58:12Z")
Eco-fascism is apparently a thing now, as climate change gets harder to deny while fascists want to keep their fascist beliefs. Even Richard Spencer has talked about the need to keep the planet livable (for white people.) > **[The El Paso Shooter Embraced Eco-Fascism. We Can’t Let the Far Right Co-Opt...](https://theintercept.com/2019/08/05/el-paso-shooting-eco-fascism-migration/)** > > Eco-fascism has seen a notable reemergence among far-right groups and festering corners online in the U.S. and Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/116 "2019-08-10T01:02:59Z")
[File this under “Remove All Doubt”](https://apnews.com/456c0154218a4d378e2fb36cd40b709d): > [@](#): > > Patrick Crusius, 21, emerged with his hands up from a vehicle that was stopped at an intersection shortly after last Saturday’s attack and told officers, “I’m the shooter,” Detective Adrian Garcia said in an arrest warrant affidavit. > > Crusius later waived his Miranda rights and agreed to speak with detectives, telling them he entered the store with an AK-47 assault rifle and multiple magazines, and that **he was targeting Mexicans**. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/117 "2019-08-10T15:25:03Z")
[Dmitriy Andreychenko](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/10/us/walmart-armed-man-missouri-second-amendment/index.html) is one of the dumbest assholes on the planet. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/118 "2019-08-10T15:56:45Z")
Shall not be abridged ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/119 "2019-08-10T16:00:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Dmitriy Andreychenko](https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/10/us/walmart-armed-man-missouri-second-amendment/index.html) is one of the dumbest assholes on the planet. Oh yeah? Before you start ranking them, wait till you see those who will defend his actions. You may have some new contenders. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124/120 "2019-08-10T16:09:17Z")
Will this excuse work, to secure only a slap on the wrist, from the US courts? If they believe him isn’t it a mere misdemeanour? What’s he likely to get beyond a fine, in that case? If he sticks to his story about not ‘intending’ to cause a panic, can he be held responsible if one ensues? Just curious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-at-el-paso-walmart-at-least-18-shot-3-aug-2019/838124.md?page=7)