# Active Shooter incident in Lewiston, Maine 10/25/2023 (found dead, presumed suicide) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [October 26, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109 "2023-10-26T01:08:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/123 "2023-10-27T17:45:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > It was the Lewiston, Maine Police who made the claim that Card was a firearms instructor for the army. Did they actually say he was an instructor for the Army or just an instructor? I thought he was a private instructor. We have lots of those for conceal/carry certification. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/124 "2023-10-27T17:49:30Z")
There was a briefing today and they showed where the car was abandoned which is right next to a canoe launch. They said they still hadn’t searched that area currently including that little island. Jeeze, I hate to armchair quarterback but that was the first place I’d have searched. It overlaps the search pattern they were making with helicopters so I’d assume they gave it a look using thermal cameras at night. It’s just a spec of an island in the river. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/125 "2023-10-27T18:05:17Z")
Quoting the news from CNN’s live updates: > “There was a lot of work that was done yesterday … that might not have been visible to the media and the cameras,” Latti added. > > Public Safety Commissioner Mike Sauschuck said in an earlier news conference that [the search with divers would begin today](https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/lewiston-maine-mass-shootings-10-27-23/h_cf2f07336bff0193d7ff4c0c3d5df1f2). > > It’s unclear how long the river search will take, Latti said. > > > “There’s no time limit on it … could be a couple hours, could be longer,” Latti said. “I mean, when you’re talking about a water search, in the water, that takes longer than an air search.” I certainly wouldn’t want to do an active, in water search at night, especially in Fall temperatures in Maine. So, I suspect that rather than Armchair Quaterbacking, it was more like you (and I, and most of the public) weren’t the Ref in the right position to make the call. Not an attack, just a joking admission of our difficulties judging from multiple removes. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/126 "2023-10-27T18:06:29Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > > [@madmonk28](#): > > > > It was the Lewiston, Maine Police who made the claim that Card was a firearms instructor for the army. They put it in a press release and had put it in their Facebook page, but have since walked back that claim. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Understandably the public wants as much information as possible as quickly as possible. Unfortunately that means some bad initial information gets put out. > > Speaking from the point of danger to the public, I’d rather they slightly over-evaluate the risks of a particular active shooter than play down the concerns. Keeping in mind though that indiscriminate claims lead to tragedies such as those that happened around 9/11. > > (I don’t intend that, nor believe that is a political jab, just as a caution about the benefits and risks of breaking news as a whole.) > > I would think it fair to expect that a military reservist would have better tactical training and firearms proficiency than the average suburbanite however - but yes, almost certainly no specialized training that applied to their atrocious actions. Still a step up from the sort of “protect yourself first, waaaaay before you worry about protecting family and property against a break-in” training that @Loach mentions. > > Aside, I’ve had such training twice, first before I ever brought a firearm into my house, and a second time when years ago I applied for a concealed carry permit. Each time I’d say half the class or more was about how to NEVER use the firearm at all, and the consequences if you did, with most of the rest spent on training you how stupidly deadly they were to yourself and those around you. The hope is that at some point the media would curate the information and put it in perspective. If anything the opposite is true. I just read an article on CNN that makes it seem like he was trained to be a killing machine. As someone with a lot of years in the military I know that’s not true. He’s a fuel pumper. Once a year he has to hit 23 out of 40 at the range to qualify. Reservists don’t have time to do more than sporadic training outside of their job. It’s not no training but it’s not highly specialized training. He would have spent a hell of a lot more time doing online sexual harassment and cybersecurity classes and other similar things than he would shooting or practicing tactics his job doesn’t require. Those are army-wide requirements that reservists only have weekends to do. If he’s a good shot and proficient with his weapon most likely he got that just being a good ol’ boy(or the Maine equivalent) out hunting and shooting in the woods. The military made him an expert at driving fuel trucks and setting up refueling points. There is nothing in his military background that points to advanced tactical skills. If alive he is now up against people who train tactics every day they aren’t on an active case. It makes a big difference. > [@Magiver](#): > > > [@madmonk28](#): > > > > It was the Lewiston, Maine Police who made the claim that Card was a firearms instructor for the army. > > Did they actually say he was an instructor for the Army or just an instructor? I thought he was a private instructor. We have lots of those for conceal/carry certification. Maybe he has some sort of private instructor training. Maybe he just has the certification that many require to be a range worker. Unknown at this point. I believe Maine does not require any training to conceal carry so an instructor of that type would not be needed. I read it’s a legal concealed carry state with no prerequisites. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/127 "2023-10-27T18:13:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The hope is that at some point the media would curate the information and put it in perspective. If anything the opposite is true. Pardon for picking a small section of your longish post to talk about, because otherwise I believe we’re in agreement - because in the section I quoted, I said he’s probably better than your average suburbanite, which is a pretty low bar for tactical training. 🤷‍♂️ But the section I quoted above is a huge problem in breaking news as a whole, and not just in the case. Shoot out (ironic pun intended) as much information, especially click-worth information as quickly as possible, while waiting for any details. The “Spray 'n Pray” version of reporting. Which, well, isn’t great, but is understandable. The problem becomes where the internet is forever, articles are often cross-linked internally and externally, and as our thread on journalistic editing points out, there’s zero financial incentive to go back and correct. Sure, there’s occasionally updates, but often the corrections are no more than a note at the bottom of the page (if that!) and much of the old information is summarized without the detailed corrections because it’s “old news” now. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/128 "2023-10-27T18:14:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There was a briefing today and they showed where the car was abandoned which is right next to a canoe launch. Is it the Pejepscot Boat Ramp just outside of Lisbon Falls? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/129 "2023-10-27T18:50:29Z")
From what I see in the news, it was the Prejepscot boat ramp, which is actually in the town of Topsham but closer to downtown Lisbon Falls than to downtown Topsham. If he’s really in a 15 foot boat launched from there (which hasn’t been verified as far as I’m aware), he can’t go very far before coming to a dam. There’s a dam less than a mile upstream with about a 30 foot drop. There’s another dam about 3 miles downstream with about a 20 foot drop. There’s another dam about five miles farther downstream with a 40 foot drop, beyond which is Merrymeeting Bay at sea level. None of those dams are set up with paths for portaging as far as I’m aware, but if he’s desperate enough I suppose it’s not out of the question. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/130 "2023-10-27T20:02:44Z")
No, it’s the one right one you pull into Lisbon from the north. Miller Park I think it’s called. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/131 "2023-10-27T20:19:34Z")
I’m not familiar with the area, but it looks as though the dams have portages. > **[Find Adventures Near You, Track Your Progress, Share](https://www.bivy.com/adventures/us/maine/androscoggin-river:-durham-to-brunswick-6357617135845376)** > > Hiking, Biking, Kayaking, Rock climbing, Skiing and more. 43,000+ adventures available. Easily find any kind of outdoor adventure near you. Locate friends and Bivy users in the outdoors. Track yourself using the free Bivy App. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/132 "2023-10-27T20:24:53Z")
I guess we need to know what kind of 15 foot boat it is and how much stuff he’s got with him. Portaging is generally for canoeing and kayaking, not a quick getaway. ETA - all this makes me ill, I just hope he’s already dead ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/133 "2023-10-27T20:43:05Z")
I thought they said he left a gun behind in the car. Can’t verify it. ABC news is saying the note he left behind was a suicide note to his son, ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/134 "2023-10-27T20:51:54Z")
I actually hope he’s still alive, although he probably isn’t. I want him to be in court and have a trial, get convicted, so survivors can give impact statements. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/135 "2023-10-27T20:58:34Z")
You mean the survivors of the people he thought were out to get him? He’s batshit crazy. Hopefully the voices in his head tell him to kill himself. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/136 "2023-10-27T20:59:42Z")
I found a news clip online from right when they announced Card as a suspect. The reporter was reading from a bulletin and said this information was also on the Lewiston PD Facebook page. They expressly said a firearms instructor for the army in the quote. The clip and the FB post are no longer up. Early in an incident like this, there is a lot of bad info out there. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/137 "2023-10-27T21:22:41Z")
It seems they had announced earlier that it was the Prejumpscott boat landing, but they corrected themselves in the press conference going on right now. That is the predominant place to put in around there, so understandable mistake, I suppose. They also just announced that deer hunting season - which is supposed to start tomorrow - is suspended in the surround areas, however, there will be deer hunting allowed in other areas, so he warned about residents hearing gunshots. Here’s what I know about the guys in Maine who hunt deer - every last one of them is out for this guy. Sure an eight-point buck would be nice, but every swinging trigger finger in that woods wants to bag a Card. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/138 "2023-10-27T21:31:31Z")
What makes me really think he’s already dead is that there hasn’t been a single sighting, clue, or anything that I’ve heard about anyway. Wasn’t there a similar case where a guy was seen on a trail camera? With everyone on the lookout he knows that movement will mark him, so he’s either dead or in a place to lay low for a longer period. Says the armchair newswatcher. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/139 "2023-10-27T21:42:37Z")
Reports are that he grew up in the area and is an avid outdoorsman. If so, he knows every little nook and cranny and could conceivably hide out for a while so who knows. My guess is that he’s dead though. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/140 "2023-10-27T21:53:20Z")
If his body is not found it’s going to inspire years of horror stories. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/141 "2023-10-27T22:22:10Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Reports are that he grew up in the area and is an avid outdoorsman. If so, he knows every little nook and cranny and could conceivably hide out for a while so who knows. I’ve seen this kind of thing before. A decade ago, there was a double murder suspect who was a survivalist and hiding in the woods. It was scary because at the time, I worked in that area, in fact I had a couple of locations I was responsible for in the same town so I traveled through it all the time. (Luckily my office IT job didn’t require me to venture out into the woods.) Here is a page describing what happened: > **[Peter Keller: The Survivalist Who Didn't Survive](http://jimfishertruecrime.blogspot.com/2012/06/peter-keller-survivalist-who-didnt.html)** > >      On Sunday morning, April 22, 2012, firefighters responded to a house fire in North Bend, Washington, a Cascade foothills town 30 miles... They found his bunker within a week, and his body was inside. I’m not sure if Card was this prepared, but someone who has access to a rural area and has experience living in it can be more of a challenge than your average fugitive. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109/142 "2023-10-27T22:27:09Z")
Note - if I’m hearing voices already, am on-the-run, isolated, worried about pursuit, and heavily armed, I do not expect to survive the stress for more than 48 hours, much less a week, before taking what appears to be the only way out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/active-shooter-incident-in-lewiston-maine-10-25-2023-found-dead-presumed-suicide/992109.md?page=8)