# Activist judge slags GSA **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417 "2004-03-03T23:53:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/1 "2004-03-03T23:53:53Z")
Well hell, I started this thread about an hour ago and the damn board didn’t post it. Now my high dudgeon has worn off and I can’t remember the choicest bits of profanity I used in the original. Anyway, here’s the [story](http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/03/030304txStud.htm): > [@](#): > > (Lubbock, Texas) A federal judge has ruled that a Texas school district that refused to allow a Gay Straight Alliance to meet on school property did not violate the student’s rights. > > \ > > Represented by Lambda Legal, the Alliance claimed in its lawsuit that the district violated students’ constitutional rights and a law forbidding discrimination against groups meeting on campuses of schools receiving federal funds. > > But, U.S. District Judge Sam R. Cummings in a summary judgment said that “the local school officials and parents are in the best position to determine what subject matter is reasonable and will be allowed on LISD campuses.” > > \ > > He found that the decision not to allow the group to meet on campus is “an assertion of a school’s right not to surrender control of the public school system to students and erode a community’s standard of what subject matter is considered obscene and inappropriate.” Without the choicest profanity then…even judges in Utah and Kentucky have figured out that the federal Equal Access Act _requires_ schools who allow any extra-curricular clubs to meet must allow _all_ such clubs to meet. Not only does this dickweed ignore the law, he compounds his disgusting actions by slanderously labelling a bunch of innocent teenagers as “obscene.” May he be beaten in the head with his own gavel until some sense gets knocked into it. Still, I do wish I had all the nice profanity from my first attempt… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/2 "2004-03-04T00:14:32Z")
Funny how you snipped the critical paragraph: > [@Otto](#): > > Cummings, in his ruling, also noted that the group’s goals violate well-known policies at Lubbock High School and the district. Tell me, how many Christian societies are there in Moslem schools? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/3 "2004-03-04T00:30:10Z")
> [@qts](#): > > Funny how you snipped the critical paragraph: > > Tell me, how many Christian societies are there in Moslem schools? Tell me, how is a public high school in a secular nation supposed to be within its rights in promoting Christian values? ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/4 "2004-03-04T00:33:31Z")
**qts** , just because a policy exists doesn’t mean nobody’s rights are being violated when it’s followed. A public school could have a “no being an atheist” policy, and that certainly wouldn’t be proper. I’m not sure what you mean by the reference to Muslim schools, since Lubbock High School appears to be a public school, from all I can tell. If you can find some evidence to the contrary, please let us know. Anyway, I wish we had more information here - specifically, which policies the GSA was actually in violation of. ---
**Author:** ![cheddarsnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/5 "2004-03-04T00:34:51Z")
**qts** , just what is your point? That we should use discriminatory rules to determine who may or may not meet on public school property because someone else does it? Please tell me I’ve misread your post… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/6 "2004-03-04T01:33:30Z")
As I understand the school district’s position, their refusal is hinged on the idea that the GSA’s purpose would be to promote illegal activites: specifically, homosexual activities between minors, which is illegal in Texas. Two problems: 1. No expert I on Gay Student Alliance type clubs, but I cannot remotely imagine they are a hotbed of sexual activity. While I certainly grant that students may join the club in an effort to get laid, that underlying motivation is likely present at most every single high school function to one degree or another, teenagers being who they are. So I don’t buy that reason. 2. It’s a question of fact. The court seems to have entered summary judgement, which means they have arrived at agreeing with the reasoning of the school system without a trial. Even if I’m wrong, and the purpose of the GSA is sex, sex, and more sex, I can’t believe that it isn’t at least disputed, and thus a material fact for trial. So I don’t see how we get to a summary judgement. If I’m wrong about the school system’s argument, please let me know. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/7 "2004-03-04T01:44:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As I understand the school district’s position, their refusal is hinged on the idea that the GSA’s purpose would be to promote illegal activites: specifically, homosexual activities between minors, which is illegal in Texas. > > - Rick It’s a _Gay Straight Alliance_, not a GLBSU chapter or a gay solidarity group. The inference being that there are or would be heterosexual members. Clearly, the purpose _cannot_ be to promote homosexual activities between minors. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/8 "2004-03-04T01:53:02Z")
The case isn’t even mentioned on the school’s news page ([http://www.lubbockhigh.com/default2.asp](http://www.lubbockhigh.com/default2.asp)). What the hell? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/9 "2004-03-04T03:35:27Z")
I think you are pretty close in your estimation of the situation, **Bricker**. From the [LAMBDA website](http://www.lambdalegal.org/cgi-bin/iowa/cases/record?record=189): > [@](#): > > The group’s purpose is to provide support for gay and straight students and promote equality in the school system and community. > > […] > > The Lubbock Independent School District defended its actions by arguing that the club went against the school’s abstinence-only sex education policy where LISD permits “discussion of the ramifications of sexual activity, not the sexual activity itself.” Further illustrating the many misconceptions about GSAs, school superintendent Jack Clemmons said in an affidavit, “I would have denied other clubs whose basis was sex. I would have denied a Bestiality Club. I would have denied a Gigolo Club. I would have denied a Prostitute Club.” I really don’t know what to say about Mr. Jack Clemmons. I guess it would be crossing that line to say that he’s too stupid to live, so I’ll have to content myself with saying that he’s far, _far_ too stupid to be a fucking _School Superintendent_. He shouldn’t even be working for the district in a janitorial capacity. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/10 "2004-03-04T03:41:05Z")
Let me get this straight, **Otto** … YOU are hammering on activist judges? Bwahahaha! That doesn’t at all mean that I think the judge is in any way correct, but that doesn’t in any way make your title any less ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/11 "2004-03-04T04:19:48Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Let me get this straight, **Otto** … > > YOU are hammering on activist judges? Bwahahaha! > > That doesn’t at all mean that I think the judge is in any way correct, but that doesn’t in any way make your title any less ironic. I thought it was intentional, as in, “you people wanna complain about ‘activist judges’? HERE is an activist judge!” I can’t imagine, given the debates here, that it wasn’t 100% deliberate, don’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/12 "2004-03-04T04:23:21Z")
I dunno, **Leaper**. What I initially thought was it was like the guy whose team gets the good calls all year long and walks around smiling about it, and then when the ref makes a call and his team loses the game he blames the refs. Of course, you could be right. I didn’t see it that way. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/13 "2004-03-04T13:33:24Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Let me get this straight, **Otto** … > > YOU are hammering on activist judges? Bwahahaha! > > That doesn’t at all mean that I think the judge is in any way correct, but that doesn’t in any way make your title any less ironic. This is why my original OP was so much better. It had this whole section about assholes who scream about activist judges, like the fucks in the Senate who even as this ruling was being issued were holding a hearing on those evil activist (Republican-appointed for the most part) judges who recognized equal marriage rights. So yeah, the title was meant to send up the whole activist judge canard. And again, my OP had all that great profanity… And **qts** , your stupidity is of such magnitude that it cries out to God in Heaven and makes Him weep. The Equal Access Act was passed to ensure that _Christian_ student groups would be allowed to meet on public school grounds. It has the effect of requiring public schools to allow _all_ student groups to meet if it allows any. The number of Christian groups meeting at private Muslim schools is irrelevant to the legal requirements on public schools. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/14 "2004-03-04T13:58:45Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > It’s a _Gay Straight Alliance_, not a GLBSU chapter or a gay solidarity group. The inference being that there are or would be heterosexual members. Clearly, the purpose _cannot_ be to promote homosexual activities between minors. YOu obviously haven’t been reading your Jack Chick tracts, dearie – the whole purpose of such “clubs” is to convert good, wholesome, normal students to the evil perversions of the Gay Agenda. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/15 "2004-03-04T15:40:16Z")
By **EddyTeddyFreddy:** > [@](#): > > YOu obviously haven’t been reading your Jack Chick tracts, dearie – the whole purpose of such “clubs” is to convert good, wholesome, normal students to the evil perversions of the Gay Agenda. Uhm…what other purpose would it serve? Not that I’m saying it’s evil…but…isn’t that the purpose of ANY club or organization, to promote their ideas, etc.? Whether it’s the English club, or the Spanish club, or the Chess club, or the Bible club, or the… …well, you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/16 "2004-03-04T16:00:52Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > By **EddyTeddyFreddy:** > Uhm…what other purpose would it serve? Not that I’m saying it’s evil…but…isn’t that the purpose of ANY club or organization, to promote their ideas, etc.? Whether it’s the English club, or the Spanish club, or the Chess club, or the Bible club, or the… > …well, you get the idea. And this is a bad idea why? I see a moral neutrality in promoting the discussion of French languae and literature or the playing of chess. I see a support of American values in the promotion of fair and equal treatment for any subset of the American people. I see an _educational benefit_ in enabling people to dispell their own ignorance by learning how other people see things. (Say, what _was_ the purpose of this website, anyway? :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/17 "2004-03-04T16:01:44Z")
Gay-Straight Alliances exist to promote understanding of issues relating to homosexuality and to explore ways by which the relations between gay and straight people might be improved. Only a truly twisted person could pervert that into “promoting underage buttsex.” ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/18 "2004-03-04T16:13:20Z")
**Poly,** The point I was making was that **ETF** ’s comment was mundane and redundant…he skewed it by taking a stab at Jack Chick (who probably deserves it), but that doesn’t change the fact that the organization is there to promote a particular agenda and/or educate people about themselves, their lifestyle, etc. I never implied that there was no redeeming value to the group or its goals. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/19 "2004-03-04T16:33:38Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Gay-Straight Alliances exist to promote understanding of issues relating to homosexuality and to explore ways by which the relations between gay and straight people might be improved. > > Only a truly twisted person could pervert that into “promoting underage buttsex.” Buttsex! Buttsex! Always its about buttsex. Won’t someone _please_ think of the cunnilingus? Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417/20 "2004-03-04T16:52:30Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > Uhm…what other purpose would it serve? I think what the poster was implying is that people are maligning the GSA group as an attempt to recruit kids into _homosexuality_, which is, of course, impossible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/activist-judge-slags-gsa/232417.md?page=2)