# Actress refuses to do nude scene: right or wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852 "2014-04-11T05:25:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/101 "2014-04-12T00:15:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A contract that requires non-consensual nudity should be void. This doesn’t make any sense. It’s inherent in a contract that everything is consensual (bargain-for-exchange, meeting-of-the-minds and all of that). If you’ve signed a contract for nudity, then you’ve consented to the nudity. If there’s some other doctrine (like duress or mistake-of-fact) that voids the contract, then it’s void because of that doctrine, not because of the nudity. > [@](#): > > A contract that requires nudity, and develops into a demand for non-consensual nudity, should be voidable. (Continuing my devil’s advocacy). How does a written contract develop into a non-consensual demand for nudity? You have to override it with another contract or we’re probably in criminal territory. Now, we could propose that a contract for nudity must be in writing, so you couldn’t verbally make or override a contract to include nudity. But that’s not the same as contracts for nudity being void as against public policy. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/102 "2014-04-12T00:18:48Z")
Turning it around, what’s the public policy basis for enforcing porno contracts? Porno isn’t protected by the first amendment and [it’s legality isn’t even wholly clear cut](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2845/why-arent-porn-actors-charged-with-prostitution). > [@Miller](#): > > It seems to me that, as a general principle, if something is legal to do, a contract to do it ought to be legally enforceable. If it’s legal to show titties in a movie, it should be legal to sign a contract to show your titties in a movie, and to expect that contract to be enforced. > > I agree that there are certain actions that a court should not be able to force a private individual to do, such as perform a sex act. Or undertake a dangerous action, or violate a religious principle. If someone is paid a million dollars by the National Pork Board to be their celebrity spokesperson, and shortly before the campaign launches, they convert to Judaism and refuse to touch pork products, they should be, at least, forced to give the money back. They shouldn’t be forced to eat a bacon sandwich. … Similarly, what’s the public policy basis for enforcing contracts made with Playboy enterprises? Has this ever come up? I’m coming around to Miller’s POV actually. There’s a line between porno and skinemax to the extent that the legal status of the former isn’t entirely settled. But if there’s a business where the legal status _is_ settled, and there’s no explicit law saying that contractual enforcement will be withdrawn for specified activities not in the public interest, then courts should assume that the contract is enforceable. \* With some exceptions that our legal eagles can describe. No, I have nothing specific in mind. Ookay then Devil’s advocate 2: if a legislature said that softcore porn contracts were unenforceable, would that create due process issues? Devil’s advocate 3: Presumably some civil rights statutes could be mentioned, but I didn’t find anything immediately obvious when I skimmed the complaint. Finally: in practice I think it should be permissible for a person to sign an enforceable contract that requires them to do something that would make some uncomfortable. I also wonder why the actress’s agent wasn’t called. - ETA: I forgot that we’re talking about simulated sex in cinemax. Maybe it could be argued to be something like porn. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/103 "2014-04-12T00:20:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A contract that requires non-consensual nudity should be void. > > A contract that requires nudity, and develops into a demand for non-consensual nudity, should be voidable. (Continuing my devil’s advocacy). So, an actress signs a contract wherein she agrees to take off her top for a scene. The production company sinks significant resources into putting together the shoot. At the last moment, the actress says, “You know, I think I want twice as much money to do this shoot. Pay up or I walk.” Does the production company have any recourse there? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/104 "2014-04-12T00:27:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, an actress signs a contract wherein she agrees to take off her top for a scene. The production company sinks significant resources into putting together the shoot. At the last moment, the actress says, “You know, I think I want twice as much money to do this shoot. Pay up or I walk.” > > Does the production company have any recourse there? “That’s a matter between the actress and the production company. The state has no interest in enforcing their agreements. Of course the actress would suffer a loss of reputation which would cap her bargaining power.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/105 "2014-04-12T00:31:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not acceptable. Whatever they were going to pay her will have to be paid to another actress, _plus_ there is the cost of the delay in production…which would be much more than the amount due the actress. Sure. That’s the production company’s risk. The actor’s risk is that she’ll never work in Hollywood again. I’m no ideologue. I don’t think we should analyze from first principles. Rather, I think the production company has an interest in not losing money, AND the actor has an interest in protecting his control over his body. I think public policy ought to balance these interests in a manner similar to how medical studies balance the interests of researcher and research subject, leading to a situation in which the researcher isn’t fucked, but the subject also isn’t coerced into something icky. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/106 "2014-04-12T00:33:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, an actress signs a contract wherein she agrees to take off her top for a scene. The production company sinks significant resources into putting together the shoot. At the last moment, the actress says, “You know, I think I want twice as much money to do this shoot. Pay up or I walk.” > > Does the production company have any recourse there? If we set up the policy I propose in advance, her contract will have been written such that if she walks, that’ll become public knowledge, and she gets paid nothing for any scene she’s done so far. The production company will lose money. She’ll lose money and reputation. It’s a very risky move for her to make. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/107 "2014-04-12T00:33:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I think public policy ought to balance these interests in a manner similar to how medical studies balance the interests of researcher and research subject, leading to a situation in which the researcher isn’t fucked, but the subject also isn’t coerced into something icky. I’m not convinced that the subject is coerced into something icky under what I understand to be the status quo, where nudity and simulated sex contracts are enforceable and actors are represented by agents. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/108 "2014-04-12T00:38:03Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’m not convinced that the subject is coerced into something icky under what I understand to be the status quo, where nudity and simulated sex contracts are enforceable and actors are represented by agents. If actors can ever end up in a situation in which they must simulate sex or face crushing financial ruin, I think that’s got an uncomfortably coercive vibe going on. Is that currently the case? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/109 "2014-04-12T00:45:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You misunderstand my proposed public policy: consensual nude scenes are fine, just like consensual sex is fine. But nonconsensual sex is against public policy – so should nonconsensual nude scenes be. Sure - but if she freely signed a contract it could be consensual, right? I thought you were saying that a contract freely agreed to should be invalid if it contained terms against public policy, in this case nudity. My understanding is that contracts not freely agreed to are invalid no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/110 "2014-04-12T00:48:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If actors can ever end up in a situation in which they must simulate sex or face crushing financial ruin, I think that’s got an uncomfortably coercive vibe going on. Is that currently the case? I don’t know frankly. That’s a well framed question. In a world where people never get cold feet, that shouldn’t be a problem IMO. Simulated sex is still acting, and I’m assuming the actor was represented at least semi-competently. (It would be another matter, if this wasn’t a late night skinemax production. In other words I’m ruling out bait and switch.) The actress in question isn’t claiming cold feet, but that’s the sort of human thing that the law might make allowance for. (I think it might in some contexts, but I can’t remember the example - I vaguely recall a reference to unanticipated cold feet in the Economist years back. I think they were debating a proposed law though.\*) But say there’s no cold feet. Crushing financial ruin is the consequence of all sorts of behaviors. That in isolation shouldn’t be a problem, not that you said it was. - ETA: Oh yeah: they were discussing paid surrogate motherhood. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/111 "2014-04-12T00:49:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If actors can ever end up in a situation in which they must simulate sex or face crushing financial ruin, I think that’s got an uncomfortably coercive vibe going on. Is that currently the case? Isn’t that precisely the scenario you were promoting as the most equitable solution? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/112 "2014-04-12T00:55:56Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > The bleeding was accidential during a rough sex scene. But … since the whole thing is memorialized on film/digital, including the director refusing her requests to to stop and then telling the bleeding actor to “cup her breasts”, your belief of whether or not it actually happened shouldn’t be an issue. Oh - I thought you were saying this was planned. And she couldn’t ruin the take by any one of a number of actions? hell, takes get ruined for plenty of reasons without horrible things happening. I can believe anything of a sleazy non-union job - but this wasn’t one of those. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/113 "2014-04-12T01:07:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Isn’t that precisely the scenario you were promoting as the most equitable solution? 😕 (I think LHoD was providing a penalty for the actress - she wouldn’t get paid. But he wasn’t going to hold her liable for lost time during the shoot.) > [@](#): > > Nudity riders are not enforceable. If someone chickens out about their nudity contract at any point, they can walk. Their decision to walk is made public. It’s acceptable for contracts with nudity riders to be paid in full at the end of the shoot, and for the production company to consider the contract broken if the nudity is not completed per the contract, meaning the actor doesn’t get paid anything. The production company cannot sue for expenses incurred at that point. So the actress loses a pay check, but is not liable for other expenses. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/114 "2014-04-12T01:39:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, a woman may consent to sex, but revoke that consent at any time. She has an absolute right to revoke consent for sex, notwithstanding her prior grant of consent, and regardless of any previous indicia of comfort she had in having sex. > > True? Non-consensual sex is obviously a crime in and of itself. So let’s make a less controversial analogy. Let’s say you’re planning on visiting the Western NY area for a week and you mention this here on the board. And I post, _“Hey, Bricker, I’m going to be out of town that week. Why don’t you save the expense of a hotel and stay at my place?”_ You like the idea and take me up on my offer. And then a few days before your trip, I contact you again and say, _“Bad news. My travel plans have been cancelled. You can still come and stay at my place but I’m going to be there while you’re visiting.”_ Now being as our agreement was just a social agreement, I think you’ll agree the original terms are unenforceable. You can’t compel me to vacate my house based on my original promise to be out of town while you were there. But suppose we had made a more formal arrangement. Suppose I had told you I’d rent you my house for a week for $300 and you had paid me that amount. And we had a written contract specifying I would not be present. At that point, the terms of our arrangement have become enforceable. We signed a contract, you paid me, and you can legally kick me out of my home for the week in question. Or sue me for the $300 and the cost of the hotel room you ended up staying in. That’s the difference between a woman agreeing to take her clothes off in a social setting (_“I’ll give you a strip-tease for your birthday”_) and a woman signing a contract to take her clothes off for a job. The first woman can change her mind without consequence; the second woman is legally obligated. She can’t be forced to fulfill the contract (and Greene was not forced to do the nude scene) but she should face the financial repercussions for breaching her contract. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/115 "2014-04-12T01:52:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Sure. That’s the production company’s risk. > > The actor’s risk is that she’ll never work in Hollywood again. > > I’m no ideologue. I don’t think we should analyze from first principles. Rather, I think the production company has an interest in not losing money, AND the actor has an interest in protecting his control over his body. I think public policy ought to balance these interests in a manner similar to how medical studies balance the interests of researcher and research subject, leading to a situation in which the researcher isn’t fucked, but the subject also isn’t coerced into something icky. But it’s not a balanced situation. Under your suggestion, the only thing the actress is putting at risk is her salary. And she’s probably only being paid around a thousand dollars a day. The studio, on the other hand, may have a hundred thousand dollars in production costs sunk into that same day’s shooting. Your plan would allow any performer to take the production hostage once shooting has started. So I think the studio’s position is reasonable. If an actor intentionally refuses to complete their job, they not only forfeit their salary but are also at least nominally responsible for the lost cost of the production their refusal caused. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/116 "2014-04-12T02:09:00Z")
**Bricker’s** DA argument is nonsense. As has already been noted, the contract is for something that is perfectly legal, and therefore can’t be considered harassment, which is illegal. A contract would be void if a woman signed on to be a secretary, and that she would have to accept slaps in the ass from partners and must listen to sexist jokes at least 5 times a day. Baring your breast in a film is not illegal. If you sign up to do it, and then back out, you are in breach of contract. If we were to declare that nude scenes were harassment, plain and simple, then they should be illegal across the board. It’s not so much whether this particular person would be “uncomfortable”, but whether a reasonable person in her position would be. And a reasonable actress who signed on in advance to do a nude scene would not find herself “uncomfortable” upon doing the scene. If that were the case, then it should be illegal to ask any actress to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/117 "2014-04-12T02:11:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But it’s not a balanced situation. Under your suggestion, the only thing the actress is putting at risk is her salary. And she’s probably only being paid around a thousand dollars a day. The studio, on the other hand, may have a hundred thousand dollars in production costs sunk into that same day’s shooting. Your plan would allow any performer to take the production hostage once shooting has started. > > So I think the studio’s position is reasonable. If an actor intentionally refuses to complete their job, they not only forfeit their salary but are also at least nominally responsible for the lost cost of the production their refusal caused. “Tough luck for the studio. The government has no interest in enforcing a contract involving simulated sex. That’s a matter between the actress and the studio.” Policy wise, the question is whether you want to put the hammer on high cost softcore porn, to the relative benefit of low cost porn (hard or soft). (Also to the benefit of actresses who can credibly demonstrate an interest in continued softcore employment.) If the production crew is just a guy and a camera, the actress would have less bargaining power. As I see it the question turns on whether we acknowledge a bright line between filmed simulated and actual sex. I think we do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/118 "2014-04-12T02:18:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Isn’t that precisely the scenario you were promoting as the most equitable solution? 😕 No. As MfM suggests, I think she can reasonably be put out of a paycheck, but not charged for an entire production. It’s a compromise position. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > But it’s not a balanced situation. Under your suggestion, the only thing the actress is putting at risk is her salary. And she’s probably only being paid around a thousand dollars a day. The studio, on the other hand, may have a hundred thousand dollars in production costs sunk into that same day’s shooting. Your plan would allow any performer to take the production hostage once shooting has started. For one production. After which she’d never get another job. And I suspect that most production companies would rather eat the cost of one production rather than show that they’re vulnerable to such blackmail. An actress who attempted to use blackmail would be far from secure in her success, and be almost certain to limit her viability in any future such productions. What she would be would be at risk for losing her life savings. And yes, there are plenty of other contractual situations where people can be at risk of losing everything if they back out. I posit that sexual behavior is different for a lot of folks than other things you’d contract for, and that it’s appropriate for the law to recognize that difference. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/119 "2014-04-12T02:25:50Z")
Here is a [sample AFTRA contract](http://www.sagaftra.org/files/sag/corporate_educational_and_non_broadcast_agreement_2011_aftra_1_59.pdf). Nudity is discussed in section 10J and 22F. I think in Los Angeles this will be considered a valid contract. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/120 "2014-04-12T02:58:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I posit that sexual behavior is different for a lot of folks than other things you’d contract for, and that it’s appropriate for the law to recognize that difference. But it doesn’t have to be nudity. An actor could stop production for any reason, including “I’m just not feeling the role” if they could do so at minimal risk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852.md?page=7)