# Actress refuses to do nude scene: right or wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852 "2014-04-11T05:25:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/121 "2014-04-12T03:02:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Here is a [sample AFTRA contract](http://www.sagaftra.org/files/sag/corporate_educational_and_non_broadcast_agreement_2011_aftra_1_59.pdf). > > Nudity is discussed in section 10J and 22F. I think in Los Angeles this will be considered a valid contract. Interesting. If I’m reading that correctly and this is the same as the contract that was signed, Greene may have a much stronger case then I assumed. Section 22F does seem to say that a performer can withdraw their consent to do a nude scene. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/122 "2014-04-12T03:08:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Specific performance is also frequently awarded in disputes over personal service contracts and in cases involving heirlooms. When is specific performance awarded for personal services (other than non-compete clauses)? If I contract to sing at the opera, I can back out and you can sue me but a court can’t make me sing. > [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > The bleeding was accidential during a rough sex scene. But … since the whole thing is memorialized on film/digital, including the director refusing her requests to to stop and then telling the bleeding actor to “cup her breasts”, your belief of whether or not it actually happened shouldn’t be an issue. I still don’t think that has any bearing on the nudity clause but it does make me wonder why she was suing for sexual harassment rather than something having to do with OSHA. > [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Seriously??? This thread is chock full of remarks of how this is all her fault for landing a part on a CineMax show. For instance: > > \*So her not knowing implies to me that she is either lying or the stupidest person on any set. > \* > > \*If it’s legal to show titties in a movie, it should be legal to sign a contract to show your titties in a movie, and to expect that contract to be enforced. > \* > > _Anyone who signed up for this, and says they didn’t know there was going to be a nude scene is either: a) retarded or b) a liar._ > > _So her not knowing implies to me that she is either lying or the stupidest person on any set._ And NONE of that equates to “the bitch had it coming” People are expressing skepticism that she didn’t know about the nudity clause. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Bricker’s** DA argument is nonsense. As has already been noted, the contract is for something that is perfectly legal, and therefore can’t be considered harassment, which is illegal. A contract would be void if a woman signed on to be a secretary, and that she would have to accept slaps in the ass from partners and must listen to sexist jokes at least 5 times a day. If I sign a 5 film contract to perform in pron movies and I decide to stop after the first one, can I be sued for changing my mind after the first one? I could be sued if I had agreed to sing in a bar for 5 nights and quit after the first night, I’m not sure that contracts for sex are equally enforceable. Nudity is not sex but Bricker’s position seems to be that they are close enough that nudity might get the same sort of protection you would extend to contracts for sex. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/123 "2014-04-12T03:11:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Interesting. If I’m reading that correctly and this is the same as the contract that was signed, Greene may have a much stronger case then I assumed. Section 22F does seem to say that a performer can withdraw their consent to do a nude scene. This seems to be about the producer’s right to substitute a double, which was done in this case according to the producers. > [@](#): > > If a Performer has agreed to appear in such scenes and then withdraws consent, Producer shall have the right to double, but consent may not be withdrawn as to film or tape already photographed. Those two sections don’t provide a lot of information, since a nudity rider is mentioned there may be more details not in that sample. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/124 "2014-04-12T03:34:49Z")
Here is a [sample nudity rider](http://www.filmcontracts.net/contracts/form.php?id=1117). This won’t help much because the details of the nudity and sex acts agreed upon would appear in a specific Exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/125 "2014-04-12T03:48:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But it doesn’t have to be nudity. Well, no, it does, given that I said, “I posit that sexual behavior is different for a lot of folks than other things you’d contract for, and that it’s appropriate for the law to recognize that difference.” ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/126 "2014-04-12T06:08:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > … > > What about a nude model who refuses to drop her robe? … Hey, I can answer this one! I used to pose for figure drawing classes at my college, and was well paid for it, even though I was not one of the better models. When I first started it was summer session and the ac was broken, no problem for me. Then they fixed the ac, well I mean they “fixed” the ac. I went into the studio and it was about 55 degrees. I argued with the instructor for a bit–and I did have kind of a contract, basically a consent form–and he threw in that it said I would pose draped and un draped and it made no mention of any minimum or maximum temperature. I said I would pose undraped if everybody in the studio also removed an equivalent amount of clothing-otherwise, draped. (Wrapped in a beach towel, in fact.) And only five-minute poses. It was never that cold again. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/127 "2014-04-12T07:08:32Z")
I didn’t want to read the linked articles at work, but now I have, and I understand why she didn’t call her agent. If she had, her agent would have said “you moron, didn’t you listen when everyone told you what the part was about?” I originally thought that the statements that she’d never work again were harsh, but now I’ve read the two articles I think they are right. The number one thing on productions like this is the budget, and any actor who puts the budget at risk is toast - unless they’ve become a big star in some way. Babies get chosen for commercials not on their looks but on how well the separate from their parents. A kid who worked on a show my daughter did got fired, despite being perfect for the part, because he vanished on the set and slowed up production. She’s nuts. As for them suing her, isn’t a countersuit standard procedure to assist in having the original suit get settled through negotiations? If they asked for the production costs right off the bat they’d be dicks, but asking for them in a countersuit sounds reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/128 "2014-04-12T14:09:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Well, no, it does, given that I said, “I posit that sexual behavior is different for a lot of folks than other things you’d contract for, and that it’s appropriate for the law to recognize that difference.” Is that a legal principal however? Is paying somebody to perform nude legally distinct from paying somebody to paint your house and are you able to accept payment for the job and then refuse to complete it? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/129 "2014-04-12T14:14:22Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Hey, I can answer this one! I used to pose for figure drawing classes at my college, and was well paid for it, even though I was not one of the better models. When I first started it was summer session and the ac was broken, no problem for me. Then they fixed the ac, well I mean they “fixed” the ac. I went into the studio and it was about 55 degrees. I argued with the instructor for a bit–and I did have kind of a contract, basically a consent form–and he threw in that it said I would pose draped and un draped and it made no mention of any minimum or maximum temperature. I said I would pose undraped if everybody in the studio also removed an equivalent amount of clothing-otherwise, draped. (Wrapped in a beach towel, in fact.) And only five-minute poses. It was never that cold again. I agree Greene would have had a much stronger argument if she had stuck with the conditions of the shoot as the issue. If she had said, _“I was willing to do the nude scene that I contracted for but the production company wasn’t following established procedures like clearing the set.”_ I’d agree she had a good case. But her contention is she wasn’t willing to do the scene under any circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/130 "2014-04-12T14:18:24Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > She’s nuts. As for them suing her, isn’t a countersuit standard procedure to assist in having the original suit get settled through negotiations? If they asked for the production costs right off the bat they’d be dicks, but asking for them in a countersuit sounds reasonable. I think it can also be a means of offsetting any possible settlements. If a judge rules in Greene’s favor and awards her $50,000, the studio is hoping a different judge will rule in their favor and award them $80,000. The studio is aware they’re not likely to collect the $30,000 balance from Greene but this way they won’t have to pay her. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/131 "2014-04-12T14:45:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is that a legal principal however? Is paying somebody to perform nude legally distinct from paying somebody to paint your house and are you able to accept payment for the job and then refuse to complete it? I am suggesting it ought to be a legal principle. The law treats sexual entertainment differently from other work in lots of ways, so there is precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/132 "2014-04-12T17:20:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is that a legal principal however? Is paying somebody to perform nude legally distinct from paying somebody to paint your house and are you able to accept payment for the job and then refuse to complete it? YoOu can always refuse to do something. Outside of the military and prisons, the government can’t MAKE you do anything. You can get sued tho. The question is whether you should be able to sue somebody over something like this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/133 "2014-04-12T17:30:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > YoOu can always refuse to do something. Outside of the military and prisons, the government can’t MAKE you do anything. You can get sued tho. The question is whether you should be able to sue somebody over something like this. Well, yeah, that’s why I started this thread - to address that question. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/134 "2014-04-12T21:00:22Z")
I’m guessing this case will be settled out of court. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I am suggesting it ought to be a legal principle. The law treats sexual entertainment differently from other work in lots of ways, so there is precedent. Counterplan: The law could treat sexual/nudity entertainment differently in cases not covered by collective bargaining. The idea being that the union process works fairly well. That would produce outcomes that most participants would consider fair, though it might cause problems for a handful of individual personalities. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/135 "2014-04-12T21:11:25Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > If she doesn’t want to do it, that’s fine. > > She is breaking a signed contract and is liable for the damages ensued by the company. > > Is this even a debate…? I’m kinda wondering that myself - she’s free to not consent to fulfill her contract, and they’re free to seek damages as a result. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/136 "2014-04-13T00:12:33Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Apropos of nothing, the show’s title is driving me bugfuck. > > I mean, I realize that “femme fatale” has been pretty thoroughly Anglicized, and I suppose an argument can therefore be made for its plural being “femme fatales.” But dammit, it looks completely stupid to me. And I don’t even speak much French. > > Sorry, carry on. Huh. Try being me, every time someone on the radio mispronounces the name of a certain educational institution in Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/137 "2014-04-13T03:39:53Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’m guessing this case will be settled out of court. Counterplan: The law could treat sexual/nudity entertainment differently in cases not covered by collective bargaining. The idea being that the union process works fairly well. That would produce outcomes that most participants would consider fair, though it might cause problems for a handful of individual personalities. I agree about it being settled out of court. Court costs, and the publicity, would be ruinous. I wonder if she talked to the union about this? Unions in this business are fairly strong, and they probably could get her a penalty payment. Or they could refuse to help if the production company was actually following the contract and the union rules. Which is my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/138 "2014-04-13T03:45:58Z")
Some of the things she claims the production didn’t do aren’t required by that AFTRA contract, it seems. For instance, there’s no requirement for “non-essential personnel” to leave the shoot, only that everyone at the shoot be part of the production. And since everyone is working on the movie, they have a need and a right to be there. There’s nothing in that contract about the shoot needing to pare down to bare minimum personnel in order to film a scene with nudity in it. Or even non-nudity. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/139 "2014-04-13T11:13:26Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I agree about it being settled out of court. Court costs, and the publicity, would be ruinous. > > I wonder if she talked to the union about this? Unions in this business are fairly strong, and they probably could get her a penalty payment. Or they could refuse to help if the production company was actually following the contract and the union rules. Which is my guess. She filed this suit 2 years ago, the producers filed their counter-complaint recently. That’s an indication that she hasn’t been willing to settle. There still may be a settlement, sometimes settlements come at the last minute right before a trial, or even after the trial begins, but I’m still having a hard time understanding how she was damaged, she was paid so it’s not that. The lack of a complaint to the union (if that is the case) reveals her motives to me, the union may fine the producers but she’s unlikely to receive any more money as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852/140 "2014-04-13T13:02:27Z")
She’ll never work nude in this town again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actress-refuses-to-do-nude-scene-right-or-wrong/685852.md?page=8)