# Actual forums user "RedFury" does not like Jews **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217 "2011-01-19T17:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/201 "2011-02-02T01:32:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Sour grapes? I don’t think you understand that term. Well, I dunno, are you bitterly disappointed that you are not, in fact, anti-Semitic? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/202 "2011-02-02T01:36:26Z")
Weren’t very many Jews in Waco, where I grew up, they were mostly in Temple. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/203 "2011-02-02T01:38:12Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Sour grapes? I don’t think you understand that term. Oh I am pretty sure I do. Look, I think there are 3 types of posters on this thread, which I remind you was a pitting of RedFury’s post to which he just copped to being the product of wrong thinking as accused: 1 - People who are, upfront or not, in support of RedFury’s view in his now-retracted statement. For example, it has to suck to be Kimstu in this thread, who engaged in a decenty detailed and long-enough series of RedFury apologetics just before he retracted his post. 2 - Those in the crowd who may or may not really agree with Redfury, but see the entertainment factor of FinnAgain being wrong and taunting him in the Pit that he hasn’t made his case. I can see the entertainment value of that, sure. Almost 4 pages of it here, and I saw somewhere a reference to 30 pages of it in another thread recently. I can see how, by engaging in that part of the thread, but not in the more substantive portion of it, one would be left overly invested in a certain narrative of Finn being wrong. So I totally understand how it would stick in the craw of folks like that, when someone like me comes in very late in this thread, and without having participated in any of the related threads, casts the final straw that brings RedFury back to retract most of his statement. I totally get it. You don’t get to have your fun at Finn’s expense anymore, so you lash out at the guy who ruined it - me. But in my view, you weren’t contributing to the original, more substantive pitting anyway, so it is collateral damage at best. I predict that RedFury will consider more carefully from now on some of the arguments Finnagain and others made regarding injecting subtle forms of anti-semitism into posts designed to look normal. And that is a worthwhile accomplishment for everybody involved. And if you calling me bitchy for accomplishing that, and for laying out some followup questions for RedFury - who probably won’t return to this thread again to answer them - or others to think about to evaluate his incomplete retraction, if having some folks in the thread reconsider their narrative about finnagain and lashing out at me is the price I pay, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/204 "2011-02-02T01:45:33Z")
Heyl Climb down from there! First off, its not Good Friday, its Plain Ol’ Tuesday, Second, we don’t have any nails, and you’ll look silly up there bound in duck tape. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/205 "2011-02-02T01:53:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, I dunno, are you bitterly disappointed that you are not, in fact, anti-Semitic? Well, I guess I could illustrate Chick tracts. But aside from that I’m not seeing the pluses. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/206 "2011-02-02T01:54:19Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Could you please point out exactly where **Kimstu** said that? Because I’m not seeing it. Sure. Find these bits: > [@](#): > > So while I don’t like the way Red made his statement, I think it’s only fair to acknowledge that there’s a potentially valid topic of debate somewhere in there, about whether there are too many US politicians who (on account of their own Jewish identity or for whatever other reasons) are so pro-Israel that it makes them unwise counselors on Middle East policy. In case that doesn’t make it clear enough, Kimstu is not really any keener on Catholics in a position of influence either: > [@](#): > > It would certainly be outrageous to question the trustworthiness of any Catholic individuals in such a situation solely on the grounds that they are Catholic. > > However, if the Catholic individuals in question explicitly professed political views that were radically biased in favor of the Vatican’s political agenda, whatever that is, you can bet your booties that I would question whether it might not be in the US’s best interests for such individuals to exert strong influence on policy decisions involving the Vatican. I don’t see anything outrageous about that at all. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/207 "2011-02-02T02:01:56Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Oh I am pretty sure I do. > > Look, I think there are 3 types of posters on this thread, which I remind you was a pitting of RedFury’s post to which **he just copped to being the product of wrong thinking as accused:** …wrong. Look, you do this in nearly every thread you participate in. This is what **Redfury said:** [QUOTE=RedFury] FTR, my “post to infamy” was done in haste and indeed it’s poorly constructed. That said, the frustration conveyed in the bitter sarcasm still remains…as do the reasons for same. Meaning that, for the most part, there is a very sharp divide in the US between those that will support Israel unconditionally and those that would ‘dare’ to criticize its policies. Little doubt as to who leads the way: 30 Years Of U.S. UN Vetoes. In fact, at this very moment Obama is threading a fine line on this very issue: UN resolution condemning Israel puts Obama on the spot. [/QUOTE] That is not an admission of wrong thinking and was not what he was accused of by the OP. It is also not why he was pitted. For why he was pitted, read the OP. But hey, like usual, this thread is about you now. So we can look forward to you completely ignoring everyone else’s well constructed, deeply thought out well cited posts for the next few pages. I’m just posting this link to remind everyone how **Not\_alice** debates: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523071&page=5) Please, don’t anyone think they can post something here and not have it reconstructed by the **Not\_alice** filter. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/208 "2011-02-02T02:05:12Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Oh I am pretty sure I do. > > Look, I think there are 3 types of posters on this thread, which I remind you was a pitting of RedFury’s post to which he just copped to being the product of wrong thinking as accused: > > 1 - People who are, upfront or not, in support of RedFury’s view in his now-retracted statement. For example, it has to suck to be Kimstu in this thread, who engaged in a decenty detailed and long-enough series of RedFury apologetics just before he retracted his post. > > 2 - Those in the crowd who may or may not really agree with Redfury, but see the entertainment factor of FinnAgain being wrong and taunting him in the Pit that he hasn’t made his case. I can see the entertainment value of that, sure. Almost 4 pages of it here, and I saw somewhere a reference to 30 pages of it in another thread recently. I can see how, by engaging in that part of the thread, but not in the more substantive portion of it, one would be left overly invested in a certain narrative of Finn being wrong. > > So I totally understand how it would stick in the craw of folks like that, when someone like me comes in very late in this thread, and without having participated in any of the related threads, casts the final straw that brings RedFury back to retract most of his statement. I totally get it. > > You don’t get to have your fun at Finn’s expense anymore, so you lash out at the guy who ruined it - me. But in my view, you weren’t contributing to the original, more substantive pitting anyway, so it is collateral damage at best. > > I predict that RedFury will consider more carefully from now on some of the arguments Finnagain and others made regarding injecting subtle forms of anti-semitism into posts designed to look normal. And that is a worthwhile accomplishment for everybody involved. > > And if you calling me bitchy for accomplishing that, and for laying out some followup questions for RedFury - who probably won’t return to this thread again to answer them - or others to think about to evaluate his incomplete retraction, if having some folks in the thread reconsider their narrative about finnagain and lashing out at me is the price I pay, so be it. That’s an amazing hunk of conjecture you have going there. But I suggested you were acting like a bitch, because you were being all douchebaggy. So maybe you can lay the cross down? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/209 "2011-02-02T02:14:41Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > You mean accusatory in the same way that suggesting that a man’s religion is grounds to place his loyalty to his country under suspicion would be accusatory? This is what I would call a Finn-esque device in a discussion where a finely stated position is extrapolated to its most offensive generalization. In short, quoted is a an incorrect interpretation created with intent to defame and hurt. It would do us all a favor if you called him names but you’re too smart for that. Sneaky, in fact. To the point of being ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/210 "2011-02-02T02:20:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That’s an amazing hunk of conjecture you have going there. But I suggested you were acting like a bitch, because you were being all douchebaggy. So maybe you can lay the cross down? If I was being “douchebaggy” - like I care what you think - it was because I don’t join in the Finnagain pileon. If that is your way of inviting me to the club, let me say no thanks for asking. Folks, like it or not, Red came back, said his post was written in haste, and did not in fact convey what he meant to say, and he retracted it. He admitted it was hyperbole, and did not deny any longer that the interpretation attributed by Finn and others was a wrong one. Instead he said he (Red) spoke too fast. Maybe. Maybe not. He was challenged at the time he wrote it and often since then, and it took until now to simply cop to hyperbole? I could see it if he said that right away, but since it was so long, and he stood by it, I think the best I can do is agree to see what he says the next time when I presume he won’t be posting ins such haste. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/211 "2011-02-02T02:41:32Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > This is what I would call a Finn-esque device in a discussion where a finely stated position is extrapolated to its most offensive generalization. In short, quoted is a an incorrect interpretation created with intent to defame and hurt. > > It would do us all a favor if you called him names but you’re too smart for that. Sneaky, in fact. To the point of being ridiculous. Perhaps you are not a member of an ethnic group on which the majority has been known to turn from time to time, to disastrous results, even when all was seemingly going well. If so, lucky you. Feel free to show exactly what you are saying is an incorrect interpretation of the original quote, should be interesting since even its author found it abhorrent enough in retrospect to retract. Here is the entirety of the post for your convenience. See if you can find where he “suggests” that three are dual loyalists (iow TREASONERS among the broader Jewish population, and therefore one can’t be too careful about checking if the ones in a position of power (that he doesn’t like) are among them. Tell us how the ironic “there are no dual loyalists among the US Jewish population” can be interpreted as other than casting extremely serious aspersions on Jews precisely because of their religion and not anything they have done or even are alleged to have done. What does that mean to you? > [@](#): > > What a waste of The Hamsters’ energy this thread is. Seen it once, seen it a thousand times on the SDMB…and for the most part American MSM. > > Israel can do no wrong AND there are no dual-loyalist amongst the US Jewish population. > > Patriots, off the top of my bald pate, such as Richard Pearle, Paul Wolfowitz, Michael Chertoff, George Tenet, Eric Lynn, Douglas Feith, Lee Feinstein, David Axelrod, Elliot Abrams, Kenneth Adelman, Rahm Emanuel, David Frum…ad infinitum. > > Junior staff members and wannabes? Coming at you live in many a thread. This one just one of many. > > 1-Israel can do no wrong. > > 2-If and when it does, refer to #1. Or you become a de facto anti-Semite. > > Must say the rebuttal is losing much of its historic weight. Seems as if Israel’s leaders are at the forefront of that change through their demonstrably barbaric actions. Of course, as long as there are those “sub-humans” to blame… > > Shalom. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/212 "2011-02-02T02:45:10Z")
You must be a trial to know in real life, **Not Alice**. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/213 "2011-02-02T02:51:40Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Perhaps you are not a member of an ethnic group on which the majority has been known to turn from time to time, to disastrous results, even when all was seemingly going well… And the horse upon which to town you rode. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/214 "2011-02-02T02:53:44Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > If I was being “douchebaggy” - like I care what you think - You seem to care. Since you flail around like this to explain away your shitty behavior. > [@](#): > > it was because I don’t join in the Finnagain pileon. If that is your way of inviting me to the club, let me say no thanks for asking. I would rather you not join any club I’m a member of. I like to spend time with smart, sane people. Arrogant sacks of rat-piss like you I could do without knowing. > [@](#): > > Folks, like it or not, Red came back, said his post was written in haste, and did not in fact convey what he meant to say, and he retracted it. He admitted it was hyperbole, and did not deny any longer that the interpretation attributed by Finn and others was a wrong one. Instead he said he (Red) spoke too fast. > > Maybe. Maybe not. He was challenged at the time he wrote it and often since then, and it took until now to simply cop to hyperbole? I could see it if he said that right away, but since it was so long, and he stood by it, I think the best I can do is agree to see what he says the next time when I presume he won’t be posting ins such haste. Well, lah-tee-dah, aren’t you a hero. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/215 "2011-02-02T03:00:16Z")
Holy shit! Wall of text, permanent accusatory mode, specious understanding of what other posters write, and a relentless obsession to see others “acknowledge their sins”… Has FinnAgain created another account? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/216 "2011-02-02T03:22:43Z")
Check for pods. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/217 "2011-02-02T03:45:12Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You must be a trial to know in real life, **Not Alice**. Yes, in real life local bigots who use irrational arguments to try to take civil rights away from people, or to explain away anti-semitic remarks made in their classrooms, and events like that likely would agree with you on that assessment. I am there every step of the way to make them explain their positions rationally instead of by appeals to emotion, and generally since I got involved, the end results have always been in my favor- passage of an ordinance, an apology from a teacher and agreement from the school, a failed election for a hater. Yes, those folks probably do consider it a trial when they see me. Oh I am sure some day the streak will end, but people who fight for their civil rights and other people friendly matters see me as an effective ally at the local, state, and national level. So I guess it depends who you talk to, really. Isn’t it that way for everyone though? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/218 "2011-02-02T03:48:19Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Sure. Find these bits: I see. Well, I’ll have to disagree with your interpretation of **Kimstu** ’s comments. I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/219 "2011-02-02T03:53:20Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Yes, in real life local bigots who use irrational arguments to try to take civil rights away from people, or to explain away anti-semitic remarks made in their classrooms, and events like that likely would agree with you on that assessment. > > I am there every step of the way to make them explain their positions rationally instead of by appeals to emotion, and generally since I got involved, the end results have always been in my favor- passage of an ordinance, an apology from a teacher and agreement from the school, a failed election for a hater. > > Yes, those folks probably do consider it a trial when they see me. Oh I am sure some day the streak will end, but people who fight for their civil rights and other people friendly matters see me as an effective ally at the local, state, and national level. > > So I guess it depends who you talk to, really. Isn’t it that way for everyone though? I was more thinking of your friends family and acquaintances, god help them. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217/220 "2011-02-02T04:10:55Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I was more thinking of your friends family and acquaintances, god help them. They love me each and every one. Probably no different from most folks in that regard. Sorry to disappoint you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-forums-user-redfury-does-not-like-jews/568217.md?page=12)