# actual use in prayer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996 "2003-02-14T04:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/61 "2003-02-21T00:24:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > **Just in case: [Footprints](http://www.foot-print.com/)** Ooch, I think I need to take my insulin now. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/62 "2003-02-21T00:50:55Z")
Some revealing quotes from lekatt’s link: “The American Medical Association is even budging from its naysaying stance. Its directors still warn against an “outbreak of irrationalism,” but they conceded recently that more research into the healing power of prayer is needed.” Research and testing of claims is good. “All the scientific research in the world, though, won’t prove anything new to a small, devoted group of folks in Greensboro’s medical community. They, and many of their patients, have believed for a long time that, simply put, prayer can heal.” Doesn’t sound like these people have done any tests… “Bryant says a lot of times, the power of prayer is in the asking. God doesn’t always grant a prayer’s wish but he always listens, Bryant said, and just having that spiritual connection is a healing experience.” Ah, so prayer doesn’t always work? “God works in mysterious ways, the saying goes. And Bryant is a believer.” Why doesn’t God just heal people who are prayed for? That would bring everyone into His religion. “Long before Duke University’s prayer study, which made headlines around the world recently, other studies at less-revered institutions showed that prayer can be a significant healing factor. Believers like Bryant, and a group of Greensboro doctors who meet regularly for prayer sessions, point to those studies as anecdotal – if not scientific – proof of prayer’s power.” Ah, anecdotal evidence by people who believe in God. Not very helpful. “The connection is no mystery to Dr. Spencer Tilley, a Greensboro cardiologist, who often prays with his patients. People are bound to each other through their relationship with God, he says. Although Tilley can’t explain how the God worshipped by Christians handles prayers from people of other religions, he believes those prayers are heard.” Do Satanists get healing from the Christian God, then? "He, like the Duke scientists who conducted the study, stresses that its results are “interesting scientifically but not conclusive.” Only 150 people were involved in the study, a statistically small number. And of those, only 20 were prayed for systematically. Other patients underwent different experimental healing methods, such as touch therapy. Those patients also healed quicker than patients who received no kind of special healing therapies. Patients in the prayer group, however, healed faster and easier than patients in all the other groups." So touch therapy is nearly as powerful as prayer. Or is it simply the well-known placebo effect? "Through a prayer link, he and many of his patients find peace. Sometimes, they also find answers. But if prayers aren’t answered, then folks must have faith that God has bigger and better plans for them, Tilley said. “God just doesn’t heal everybody who’s prayed for,” he said. “If prayer always worked like that, nobody would ever die.”" So again prayers are not always answered. And Tilley understands the mind of God?! "A 90-year-old patient of Tilley’s felt that peace when she died recently. “She couldn’t see and she couldn’t hear,” Tilley said. “She was ready to go to heaven.” Tilley prayed with the woman at her bedside that God would take her. “She was at perfect peace when she died,” Tilley believes." Prayer as euthanasia?! “The head of a special committee to encourage prayer at Westover Church, Tilley knows a lot of folks, and even some churchgoers, doubt prayer’s power. But to them, and to anybody who doubts, Tilley says this: “If you’re getting good medical care, what does it hurt to have somebody praying for you?”” Well if prayer works, why would you need any medical attention at all? “Narins also prays each time he delivers a baby. When a child is born with a deformity or an illness, Narins doesn’t pretend to understand why, he says. But he tries to help the parents see, and believe as he does, that “God has a reason for it.”” So prayer doesn’t stop deformity. And what is God’s reason for it? “God answers all prayers that are sincere, Narins believes, but often people don’t like the answer they get.” So if a prayer works, it’s God. If it doesn’t, the person wasn’t ‘sincere’ enough. Therefore **every single case, whether helpful or not, PROVES that prayer works.** I can’t be bothered to go on. This is just anecdotal evidence, by people who desperately want to believe in their religion. And of course no-one has applied for the $1,000,000 from the Randi foundation. Wouldn’t that money be useful to a church?! ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/63 "2003-02-21T03:30:28Z")
I understand that many religions have different views of prayer, and one frequent line that pops up is the sincerity and faith of the asker. In Christanity, that doesn’t make a difference. If one sees prayer as a mean to get what he/she wants, then prayer in Christanity is useless. In Christanity, God answers all prayers, with three responses (this is what Sunday School teaches, at least the one I know off) - Yes, No, Wait. The sincerity of the asker has nothing to do with the response, though the Bible has hints that God could be reasoned with but God will do what He wants to do out of love for the asker. And not all prayers are answered through spiritual experiences - in fact, most are not. The only way I see prayer ‘working’ is that people with religious faith has better attitlude and hence when they have contracted terminal diseases, they could contiune life with a bright outlook, which I think scientifically improves their chances of survival. Which may explain why the link says prayer can’t cure deformitiies, because no matter how good one’s attitlude is he/she couldn’t get a crooked leg to go straight again. BTW, to me one who prays is one who have religious faith, hence this is why I bring this point up. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/64 "2003-02-21T11:28:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LostCause \* > I understand that many religions have different views of prayer, and one frequent line that pops up is the sincerity and faith of the asker. > > In Christanity, that doesn’t make a difference. If one sees prayer as a mean to get what he/she wants, then prayer in Christanity is useless. So it doesn’t matter how sincere you are, and there’s no point in asking for anything (like recovery from illness)? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LostCause \* > In Christanity, God answers all prayers, with three responses (this is what Sunday School teaches, at least the one I know off) - Yes, No, Wait. The sincerity of the asker has nothing to do with the response, though the Bible has hints that God could be reasoned with but God will do what He wants to do out of love for the asker. And not all prayers are answered through spiritual experiences - in fact, most are not. It’s hardly a giant step to say that there is no evidence God answers prayers. Here is the religious logic: You pray. If something good happens, **it was God**. If nothing happens at first, **it was God**. If nothing ever happens, **it was God**. Presumably if you don’t pray, and something good happens, **it was God** (who knew what you wanted). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LostCause \* > The only way I see prayer ‘working’ is that people with religious faith has better attitlude and hence when they have contracted terminal diseases, they could contiune life with a bright outlook, which I think scientifically improves their chances of survival. Which may explain why the link says prayer can’t cure deformitiies, because no matter how good one’s attitlude is he/she couldn’t get a crooked leg to go straight again. BTW, to me one who prays is one who have religious faith, hence this is why I bring this point up. I think that medical experience is that people who are determined to get better, generally do so. Of course it would be good to have a study to prove this. And prayer does not feature, except as one example of a motivator. ---
**Author:** ![AvidReader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@AvidReader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvidReader)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/65 "2003-02-21T16:52:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*Yesterday I heard the news about the tragic transplant horror that Jesica Santillan found herself in. After waiting **three years** to get a donor match, the ecstacy of the news of the operation was suddenly transformed into the nightmare of imminent death due to a “clerical error”. ABC news held out little hope, only three days were left for Jesica. > > I was extremely moved by her predicament, andf last night I urged God to intervene. I urged for compatible organs to be made available in time. I’m sure that there were many more people who prayed for her as well. I’m happy to report that in less than twelve hours my prayers were answered, and I now pray for her full recovery. 🙂 \*\* Gee…how wonderful of God to have “picked” Jesica. He/She must have conveniently forgotten about the approimately 4 to 5 thousand African children who died of starvation and disease last night. If you have the guts to see examples of God’s Will [click here](http://www.icrc.org/Web/fre/sitefre0.nsf/iwpList476/10917C137692DA77C1256C750041E2E5) Oh, and by the way, try praying for those starving children…and then come back to this column and let us know how many thousands God saved the night before. \*\* Give me a break!\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/66 "2003-02-21T17:48:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*So it doesn’t matter how sincere you are, and there’s no point in asking for anything (like recovery from illness)? > > It’s hardly a giant step to say that there is no evidence God answers prayers. > Here is the religious logic: > > You pray. > If something good happens, **it was God**. > If nothing happens at first, **it was God**. > If nothing ever happens, **it was God**. > > Presumably if you don’t pray, and something good happens, **it was God** (who knew what you wanted). > > I think that medical experience is that people who are determined to get better, generally do so. > Of course it would be good to have a study to prove this. > And prayer does not feature, except as one example of a motivator. \*\* I am not saying that there is evidence that prayer works. I am just explaining how Christians see prayer, that’s all. Which is why I am really hesistate to support claims that “Prayer cures me” or this sort of thing. It’s not prayer - it’s the medicine that the doctor gives - that cures. The old broken tune that I have been singing for days is this – Prayer is not about making God to do something. I did raise up another point that God is not directly responsible for everything - for example, He’s not in control of the OP’s supervisors’ response to his repesentation - because his supervisors have free will. So, if something happens, it could be either God directly doing it, or not God directly doing it. I stand by the stance that there is no way to prove if anything is done by directly by God or not. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/67 "2003-02-21T17:55:41Z")
In response to glee’s thoughts “why bothering ask things from God” line of thought… A couple of postings back I mentioned Christians don’t see prayer as ‘making God to do something’. My grasp of language and the concept is too weak - I could recommend a book to those who wish to find out more - I believe it’s called “Putting Away Childish Things”. The point of prayer is interaction and communicating with God, not asking God to me the Christian’s bidding…(Yes, yes, it’s that same old broken tune!) ---
**Author:** ![leechow09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@leechow09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leechow09)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/68 "2003-02-22T03:43:03Z")
Okay, just a brief reiteration of my point: If everything is all just part of God’s divine plan, and the world is going as it should, according to the plan that is, then why the hell are we praying to save teenagers with heart transplants and starving Africans and atheists’ souls when it’s, as said, all part of the majestic plan? Basically, asking him to intervene in the world, even if it is to make someone else’s life better and not just your own, would be asking him to defeat the purpose for which he created the world. If he intervened in everything, what would be the purpose of allowing us to make our own choices? And no, the point of life is not to worship a praise-greedy god. I’ve never met a god that didn’t know he was great without having to have been told. So refresh my mind. Why do we pray to Him The Almighty to make better of the world condition when a) doing so would be to disrupt his plan; b) doing so would be to defeat his purpose? Is it to remind a never-forgetful, always-present God to stay on track with issues? Then what? Explain. ---
**Author:** ![AvidReader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@AvidReader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvidReader)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/69 "2003-02-22T04:54:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LostCause \* > \*\*I am not saying that there is evidence that prayer works. I am just explaining how Christians see prayer, that’s all. > > So, if something happens, it could be either God directly doing it, or not God directly doing it. I stand by the stance that there is no way to prove if anything is done by directly by God or not. \*\* True. I agree to a point. Please allow me to interject this thought. In my mind I see God as pure unquestioning **Love,Truth,Compassion**. In other words He embodies the ideal of Perfection. He can do no wrong. Never. Ever. Therefore He cannot interfere in human affairs. To do so would be hypocritical on his part for he would have to pick and choose such as what prayers to answer, what country to “bless” etc., etc. Pure Love. Pure Perfection would not, could not do that. I try to think that I live my life by the use of reason and logic. To me this is logical. To others it’s horses— I understand that. That is why we humans have been debating this question since time immemorial; since we crawled out of the caves, looked up at the starry vastness of the universe and asked **Why?** s ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/70 "2003-02-22T21:33:57Z")
**leechow09** , did you only want a Judeo/Christian explanation of prayer? I ask because it seems like you assume a Christian God in your last post. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/71 "2003-02-22T23:57:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AvidReader \* > True. I agree to a point. Please allow me to interject this thought. In my mind I see God as pure unquestioning **Love,Truth,Compassion**. In other words He embodies the ideal of Perfection. He can do no wrong. Never. Ever. > > Therefore He cannot interfere in human affairs. To do so would be hypocritical on his part for he would have to pick and choose such as what prayers to answer, what country to “bless” etc., etc. > > Pure Love. Pure Perfection would not, could not do that. I try to think that I live my life by the use of reason and logic. To me this is logical. To others it’s horses— > > I understand that. That is why we humans have been debating this question since time immemorial; since we crawled out of the caves, looked up at the starry vastness of the universe and asked **Why?** My definition of pure Love by an omniscient Being would be to remove all suffering. By allowing it, He does wrong. All the time. If you were a parent, and one of your children was suffering terribly, would you say “Oh, I can’t help - it would be picky.” I don’t think so. What sort of God do you worship? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/72 "2003-02-23T03:21:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grienspace \* > \*\*Yesterday I heard the news about the tragic transplant horror that Jesica Santillan found herself in. After waiting **three years** to get a donor match, the ecstacy of the news of the operation was suddenly transformed into the nightmare of imminent death due to a “clerical error”. ABC news held out little hope, only three days were left for Jesica. > > I was extremely moved by her predicament, andf last night I urged God to intervene. I urged for compatible organs to be made available in time. I’m sure that there were many more people who prayed for her as well. I’m happy to report that in less than twelve hours my prayers were answered, and I now pray for her full recovery. 🙂 \*\* After another long operation and a bout of severe brain damage, Jessica Santillan is dead. Prayer happens.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AvidReader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@AvidReader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvidReader)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/73 "2003-02-23T03:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*My definition of pure Love by an omniscient Being would be to remove all suffering. > By allowing it, He does wrong. All the time. > > If you were a parent, and one of your children was suffering terribly, would you say “Oh, I can’t help - it would be picky.” > I don’t think so. > > What sort of God do you worship? \*\* I don’t worship any God. My faith is in a belief system that emphasizes love, compassion for others and above all else…Reason…and in the existence of a Creator but denies his interference in human affairs. What kind of God do you worship? If it’s any of the typical organized religion gods be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., etc. all of them “pick and choose”. That’s wrong. Sometimes they do big time wrongs. Like not answering the prayers of the six million who died in the Holocaust. The estimated 30 million put to death through Stalin’s purges. Pol Pot’s genocide in Cambodia carried out by the dreaded Khmer Rouge, and on and on ad infinitum since the beginning of recorded history. I guess God just blinked…or took a coffee break? ’ ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/74 "2003-02-23T11:31:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AvidReader \* > I don’t worship any God. > > My faith is in a belief system that emphasizes love, compassion for others and above all else…Reason…and in the existence of a Creator but denies his interference in human affairs. You also said: “In my mind I see God as pure unquestioning Love,Truth,Compassion. In other words He embodies the ideal of Perfection. He can do no wrong. Never. Ever.” Why would a Perfect ideal not stop constant suffering amongst His creations? That seems crazy to me - or a really bad definition of Perfection. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AvidReader \* > What kind of God do you worship? If it’s any of the typical organized religion gods be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, etc., etc. all of them “pick and choose”. That’s wrong. > > Sometimes they do big time wrongs. Like not answering the prayers of the six million who died in the Holocaust. The estimated 30 million put to death through Stalin’s purges. Pol Pot’s genocide in Cambodia carried out by the dreaded Khmer Rouge, and on and on ad infinitum since the beginning of recorded history. I guess God just blinked…or took a coffee break? I’m an atheist. There’s no evidence for any God (and plenty of evidence that no caring Being exists, as you showed above.) ---
**Author:** ![AvidReader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47774/32.png) [@AvidReader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AvidReader)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/75 "2003-02-23T12:57:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\* > I’m an atheist. There’s no evidence for any God (and plenty of evidence that no caring Being exists, as you showed above.) \*\* Sorry. I totally “missed” where you were coming from. A combination of tiredness, unpreparedness(not thoroughly reading previous posts, and a “senior moment”:). It is also an example of how through the written word one cannot always judge his correspondent’s character and meaning as you can in a “one on one’” conversation. (body language, tone of voice, raised eyebrow, etc.) I’m a Deist. I don’t know if there is or is not a god. My point is that if there is I just don’t see how be could interfere in human affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/76 "2003-02-23T14:03:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leechow09 \* > \*\*Okay, just a brief reiteration of my point: > > If everything is all just part of God’s divine plan, and the world is going as it should, according to the plan that is, then why the hell are we praying to save teenagers with heart transplants and starving Africans and atheists’ souls when it’s, as said, all part of the majestic plan? I did mention that God does not interfere with human’s free will. And He is not responsible for every men action. And Christians basically pray sincerely for others because they care about others enough to talk to God about. **NOT** everything is part of God’s divine plan. There’s a lot of things happening that God doesn’t want to. One reason why things are not turning out the way God wants it to be is because men has free will. > [@](#): > > Basically, asking him to intervene in the world, even if it is to make someone else’s life better and not just your own, would be asking him to defeat the purpose for which he created the world. If he intervened in everything, what would be the purpose of allowing us to make our own choices? God intervenes in what He wants to intervenes, and if it’s in the case to do with a person, the person must agree to cooperate with God. > [@](#): > > And no, the point of life is not to worship a praise-greedy god. I’ve never met a god that didn’t know he was great without having to have been told. Christians don’t think that God ‘feeds’ from their praises. It’s appreciation. Of course, it is hard to praise God when things are seemingly all going wrong… > [@](#): > > So refresh my mind. Why do we pray to Him The Almighty to make better of the world condition when a) doing so would be to disrupt his plan; b) doing so would be to defeat his purpose? a. Christians don’t pray to God to make God does things. b. Christians believe that men’s free will can interfrere with God’s plan, because… c. Christians believe that God respects men’s free will. d. Christians believe that God is a dynamic person, so He does things differently all the time depending on what is best for the situation. e. Christians also seem to imply that God’s will is not like a straight line…step 1, follow by step 2 and etc. From what I have known, it seems that God’s will is more of a boundary, not specific things to do. > [@](#): > > Is it to remind a never-forgetful, always-present God to stay on track with issues? Christians believe prayer is to communicate with God. Maybe you may want to re-read what I have posted about Christians’ belief about prayer. Or try the following books - Where is God when it hurts (Philip Yancey) Disappointment with God (Philip Yancey) Reaching out for the Invisible God (Philip Yancey) BTW, I am aware that many religions have differing views of prayer, so this is strictly what I know about Christanity’s POV. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/77 "2003-02-23T14:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > _Quoted from Ivan Turgenev_ > Whatever a man prays for, he prays for a miracle. Every prayer reduces itself to this: “Great God, grant that twice two be not four.” > [@](#): > > _Quoted from Bret Harte_ > The creator who could put a cancer in a believer’s stomach is above being interfered with by prayers. from [Quotes about God, Religion, Mortality, Time, War, Science & Sex…] ([http://doorbell.net/tlr/god.htm](http://doorbell.net/tlr/god.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/78 "2003-02-23T16:40:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*After another long operation and a bout of severe brain damage, Jessica Santillan is dead. > Prayer happens.:rolleyes: \*\* I am extremely disappointed. God, why??? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/79 "2003-02-23T16:52:35Z")
Perhaps God let her die a slow and painful death to serve as a lesson to the hospital staff that botched the operation in the first place. I wonder-how can one find out if one’s life is going to one of learned lessons versus a life being an innocent pawn used to teach “lessons” to the ones God _really_ cares about? ---
**Author:** ![JustPlainBryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JustPlainBryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustPlainBryan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996/80 "2003-02-23T17:31:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Czarcasm \* > \*\*Perhaps God let her die a slow and painful death to serve as a lesson to the hospital staff that botched the operation in the first place. I wonder-how can one find out if one’s life is going to one of learned lessons versus a life being an innocent pawn used to teach “lessons” to the ones God _really_ cares about? \*\* Or maybe deity operates in a completely different way than what is commonly thought of in Judeo-Christian teachings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-use-in-prayer/154996.md?page=5)