# Actual vote fraud case in Hialeah Florida **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 14, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440 "2012-08-14T05:26:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/1 "2012-08-14T05:26:19Z")
> **[Hialeah Woman Arrested for Absentee Ballot Fraud](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/hialeah-woman-arrested-for-absentee-ballot-fraud/1902404/)** > > Woman violated ordinance prohibiting having more than two ballots: Authorities. > **[Former Hialeah Mayor's Uncle Arrested As Voter Fraud Case Expands](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/former-hialeah-mayors-uncle-arrested-as-voter-fraud-case-expands/2034820/)** > > Sergio Robaina, 74, turned himself into authorities Friday afternoon. And it looks pretty damn organized, the case started when the postal service reported a woman dropping off mass amounts of absentee ballots all at once. Gathering more than a hundred ballots from incapacitated voters has to be something approaching a full time job, no way there isn’t big money behind this. And voter ID laws would not have stopped this at all. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/2 "2012-08-14T06:07:03Z")
The second link is my favorite story of the two. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/3 "2012-08-14T12:55:27Z")
I had to go to his Wiki page to find out whether he was a Republican or a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/4 "2012-08-14T13:10:37Z")
For those who don’t want to go to Wiki, he’s a Republican. And none of the Voter suppression, er, Voter ID laws would have stopped this, as far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/5 "2012-08-14T14:24:52Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > For those who don’t want to go to Wiki, he’s a Republican. And none of the Voter suppression, er, Voter ID laws would have stopped this, as far as I can tell. Ahhh, this explains why we haven’t already seen this used in support of the Voter ID laws. Not because the laws would have no effect: that much is obvious from the article. But because of the parties involved. If it had been the other party, then this incident would have been invoked as an example of Voter Fraud that needs to be addressed by new laws, despite the fact that it wouldn’t have been. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/6 "2012-08-14T14:30:53Z")
The former Mayor ( Julio Robaina ) associated to the arrest in the second link is a Republican. His uncle, Sergio Robaina, was arrested and charged with two counts. I can’t find a party affiliation for the woman arrested, but basically they followed her going to different assisted living facilities and collecting signed absentee ballots. The law is against possessing more than two ballots at a time. So, had she driven to a Post Office after each visit, then she might have been okay? Like has been posted above, Voter ID laws would have done nothing to stop this. ---
**Author:** ![Makeitstop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@Makeitstop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Makeitstop)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/7 "2012-08-14T16:27:51Z")
While it’s probably true that voter ID laws would not have prevented voter fraud in this case, voter fraud still happened. No pretending it doesn’t happen! 🙂 The question is, does it happen enough in cases where voter ID laws COULD help? Also, what laws could have prevented this paticular type of voting fraud, and are they helpful for _insert your political party here_. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/8 "2012-08-14T17:07:01Z")
> [@Makeitstop](#): > > … > Also, what laws could have prevented this paticular type of voting fraud, and are they helpful for _insert your political party here_. It’s already illegal. In case you didn’t notice, this voter fraud case has resulted in an arrest and is awaiting prosecution. Prevent it entirely before it happens? ABout as easily as preventing any other crime before it happens. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/9 "2012-08-14T18:09:57Z")
Republicans stealing elections in Florida… who would have thought? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Makeitstop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@Makeitstop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Makeitstop)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/10 "2012-08-14T19:07:40Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > It’s already illegal. In case you didn’t notice, this voter fraud case has resulted in an arrest and is awaiting prosecution. Prevent it entirely before it happens? ABout as easily as preventing any other crime before it happens. The fact that I called it ‘voter fraud’ implies I already knew it was illegal. No need to assume I’m an idiot from just one post. Get to know me first before you reach that conclusion!😃 I was simply asking if someone had already thought of how to prevent this from happening beforehand. It’s not like I had any bright ideas. Still, somebody had to ask “Where is Captain Hindsight?!” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/11 "2012-08-14T19:12:17Z")
> [@grude](#): > > And it looks pretty damn organized, the case started when the postal service reported a woman dropping off mass amounts of absentee ballots all at once. > Gathering more than a hundred ballots from incapacitated voters has to be something approaching a full time job, no way there isn’t big money behind this. I don’t see any evidence of “big money” being involved. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/12 "2012-08-14T19:40:10Z")
This is absentee ballot fraud which the Republicans have carefully avoided doing anything to prevent. It’s also more prevalent than in person voter fraud, and Republicans get more votes from absentee ballots than Democrats do. What a coincidence!! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/13 "2012-08-14T20:10:56Z")
[A similar case revealed today in Longmeadow, MA](http://bostonglobe.com/metro/massachusetts/2012/08/13/hampden-district-attorney-investigating-alleged-voter-fraud-east-longmeadow/03AXyF5j1xA0r6WS3BRe1L/story.html). ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/14 "2012-08-14T20:23:01Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I don’t see any evidence of “big money” being involved. Sure it is, did you not see just how many ballots this woman had collected? This isn’t voter fraud on the level of someone voting twice so their candidate wins, this was an organized multi person operation to collect hundreds of absentee ballots. A full time job for at least one person, maybe more. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/15 "2012-08-14T20:24:01Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Sure it is, did you not see just how many ballots this woman had collected? This isn’t voter fraud on the level of someone voting twice so their candidate wins, this was an organized multi person operation to collect hundreds of absentee ballots. > > A full time job for at least one person, maybe more. That’s your idea of ‘big’ money? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/16 "2012-08-14T21:08:13Z")
At the local level, yes, yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/17 "2012-08-14T21:13:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [A similar case revealed today in Longmeadow, MA](http://bostonglobe.com/metro/massachusetts/2012/08/13/hampden-district-attorney-investigating-alleged-voter-fraud-east-longmeadow/03AXyF5j1xA0r6WS3BRe1L/story.html). Republican also. ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/18 "2012-08-14T21:15:49Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That’s your idea of ‘big’ money? Who cares what money where? Its a disgusting crime, is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![mcgato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mcgato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcgato)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/19 "2012-08-14T22:53:04Z")
That seems small time compared to what goes on in Hoboken, NJ. I a city council race, one candidate collected over 500 absentee ballots and most of those voting absentee also appeared to have collected $40 as a “campaign worker.” He received a total of around 1200 votes. The collectors of the ballots are careful not to use the mail, because then the fraud can become a federal crime as wire fraud (I think). They just carry stacks of ballots to city hall. The weird thing is that they continue to get away with it. The honest folks in town are still waiting for the FBI or the state police, but we have been waiting for decades. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440/20 "2012-08-15T11:55:47Z")
Not surprising given how easy it is to exploit the current system. Targeting elderly people is a no-brainer. Then we have another group: college students. I have two adult children who will be away at college during the next election. I could easily cast absentee ballots on their behalf, and they’d be none the wiser. We need to tighten up the requirements, but it seems everytime someone tries to do that, the other side accuses them of trying to make it more difficult for honest people to vote. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actual-vote-fraud-case-in-hialeah-florida/631440.md?page=2)