# actually I think cecil is wrong - abaracadabra **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 30, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672 "2002-12-30T14:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/1 "2002-12-30T14:45:47Z")
Well I think the man finally got it wrong. he said the word abaracadabra was of early Christian origin. Actually oh wise one, the word comes from ancient Hebrew and I think but I am not postive it is mention somewhere in the Bible. the word consist of the combination of the the two Hebrew words “abra” and “cadabra”. Abra meaning in Hebrew “I will create” cadabara meaning “as she said” it could be originally cadaber which “as he said” or caadaber which mean “as I said” anyway either way the whole saying means “I will create as she said” as was used I think before socerey. anyway I just wanted to clear that up ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/2 "2002-12-30T14:53:59Z")
Abba Cadaver = band name! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/3 "2002-12-30T14:56:27Z")
Oh, and here’s the column to which the OP refers: [What’s the origin of “abracadabra,” “hocus-pocus,” and “presto”?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a990326.html) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/4 "2002-12-31T02:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lez999 \* > the word comes from ancient Hebrew and I think but I am not postive it is mention somewhere in the Bible. Could you verify that for us? Is it or is it not mentioned in the Bible, and if so, where? > [@](#): > > the word consist of the combination of the the two Hebrew words “abra” and “cadabra”. What is the Hebrew spelling of those two words? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/5 "2002-12-31T03:28:57Z")
Sorry, but it wasn’t Hebrew originally. And it certainly isn’t in the Bible. It takes a great deal of stretching and mispronouncing to get to the story that you’ve heard. That version floats around the internet a lot, but it is hogwash. In the Middle Ages, after the word had been created, Jewish mystics adapted and adopted it, but that’s all ex post facto. In any case, lez99, welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, glad to have you with us. ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/6 "2002-12-31T12:33:36Z")
Hey ok first the mentioning of the word in the Bible like I said is not certain and I would be willing to concede that fact that it very well might not appear. However the Hebrew spelling of the words that I said were ‘abra’ - Aleph, Bet, Reish, Aleph and for the word Cadabara - Caph, Daled, Bet, Reish, Heh. OK now to the person who was skeptical about my answer C K, even if you were right that wasn’t the answer that Cecil gave so anyway he was wrong. But to answer you, you don’t need to pronounce it any differently from the way it is spelled in order to get to my explantion as I wrote. The Oxford dictionary credits the word to Latin formally Greek however, knowing that the Oxford dictionary cringes anytime they have to credit the Jews with anything I find this unreliable but it still proves that word was in use way before the Middle ages. sorry mate try again ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/7 "2002-12-31T12:48:45Z")
> [@](#): > > actually I think cecil is wrong If you’re not goona speak English, \*\* lez999 \*\* , we can’t understand you. 😕 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Attrayant \* > \*\*Abba Cadaver = band name! 😃 \*\* No…Abra Cadaver–_Power Puff Girls_ Villian’s name. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/8 "2002-12-31T13:42:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lez999 \* > OK now to the person who was skeptical about my answer C K, even if you were right that wasn’t the answer that Cecil gave so anyway he was wrong. …The Oxford dictionary credits the word to Latin formally Greek however, knowing that the Oxford dictionary cringes anytime they have to credit the Jews with anything I find this unreliable but it still proves that word was in use way before the Middle ages. sorry mate try again If you read what **Dex** wrote a little more closely, you’ll see that he said “In the Middle Ages, _after the word had been created,_ Jewish mystics adapted and adopted it, but that’s all ex post facto. [italics mine]” Since both **Cecil** and the OED refer to the _origin_ of the word “abracadabra”, and **Dex** is quite clearly referring to events which take place after the creation of the word, I see no conflict among the three. ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/9 "2002-12-31T14:16:30Z")
If i am not going to speak English?? as far as I know every single word of what i said was in correct English spelling however, Mr. Bosda, the word ‘goona’ does not appear in the English dictionary so i think you should be the one checking your English:cool: 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/10 "2002-12-31T14:20:19Z")
Well Zut, I had noticed what he said and I know that he said after the word was created however the text in which he wrote it implied that is was created a short time before the Jewish Kabbalist adopted it. Anyway assume that he meant centuries before he still would need to answer my reply about the saying and spelling of the word ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/11 "2002-12-31T15:37:24Z")
Chalk up one “whoosh”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/12 "2002-12-31T16:17:24Z")
> [@](#): > > as far as I know every single word of what i said was in correct English spelling No, as a matter of fact, you misspelled at least two words (“postive” and “socerey”). In addition, your grammar is weak, and your punctuation is dreadful. > [@](#): > > the text in which he wrote it implied that is was created a short time before the Jewish Kabbalist adopted it No, “after” does not mean “shortly after”. > [@](#): > > The Oxford dictionary credits the word to Latin formally Greek however, knowing that the Oxford dictionary cringes anytime they have to credit the Jews with anything I find this unreliable When making public accusations of infamous behavior, it is customary to offer evidence. > [@](#): > > but it still proves that word was in use way before the Middle ages. Seeing that the OED says the word is first attested in the second century A.D., and Cecil says the word is first attested in the second century A.D., I fail to see what you think you’ve established. ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/13 "2003-01-01T17:17:48Z")
Oh I am sorry Mr Kennedy I didn’t realise I was composing an English essay. It was a short note and I didn’t not check for typing mistakes, I am sorry if you need full stops and commas in order to understand a message on the board I thought it was casual here, but then again I guess you are American, they never could speak English well. From now on I will punctuate in order that you understand. I have one question though, why are you called John W. Kennedy? are you related to the Kennedys? or you just like to hide behind someone elses name? with all due respect and no offense meant to be taken. It is all in good heart. ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/14 "2003-01-01T17:24:08Z")
[QUOTEWhen making public accusations of infamous behavior, it is customary to offer evidence. You want proof?? ok fine take the word Camal for example, originated from the Hebrew word ‘Gamal’ used numerous times in the Bible in ancient Hebrew. The OED credits the word to Greek and in the last line in a ‘by the way’ manner, it states that it also may have come from Semitic origin, not Hebrew but Semitic. If you like, I can quote a number of other examples. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/15 "2003-01-01T18:25:19Z")
lez999, you should stop with the personal attacks right now. The discussion should remain focussed on the issues and not the person. Other posters, including you, John W. Kennedy, should refrain from responding in kind. Discuss the topic without personal attacks. ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/16 "2003-01-01T18:28:39Z")
I do apologise like I said I did not mean it offensively and it was all in good heart and meant to be taken lightly and I am pretty sure he attacked me personally first but anyway it was meant in jest. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/17 "2003-01-02T01:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lez999 \* > You want proof?? ok fine take the word Camal for example, originated from the Hebrew word ‘Gamal’ used numerous times in the Bible in ancient Hebrew. The OED credits the word to Greek and in the last line in a ‘by the way’ manner, it states that it also may have come from Semitic origin, not Hebrew but Semitic. If you like, I can quote a number of other examples. Unfortunately, an unsupported statement does not constitute proof. How does this prove that the English word “camel” (I assume, yes?) originated from ancient Hebrew? You simply assume so. Why is it implausible for the word to have entered _both_ Greek _and_ Hebrew from some earlier Semitic language? More tellingly, how does this anecdote prove that the “Oxford dictionary cringes anytime they have to credit the Jews with anything”? All you’ve done so far is offer an alternative explanation for the origin of “camel.” An explanation unsupported by evidence, I might add. If you wish to accuse the OED of anti-Jewish behavior, you should make a little better case than that. ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/18 "2003-01-02T02:46:35Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by zut \* Why is it implausible for the word to have entered _both_ Greek _and_ Hebrew from some earlier Semitic language? QUOTE] Why?? because Hebrew is the oldet language known to man it is simply impossible for Hebrew to have adopted the word from an earlier language, and even if it was possible it is certain that the OED does not know that. Unfortunately English intelectuals are notorious for there anti-Semitism and the OED as far as I can see is no different. The Jews, according to the world, are excess baggage. But I will bring you substancial proof. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/19 "2003-01-02T12:24:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lez999 \* > Why?? because Hebrew is the oldet language known to man it is simply impossible for Hebrew to have adopted the word from an earlier language… I’m rather skeptical of that claim. Hebrew is older than Egyptian? Chinese? Sumerian? Un-named proto-languages? Some citation backing up this claim would be nice. In any case, as [this guy](http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-1998.7/msg00216.html) says, > [@](#): > > We have every reason to believe that human beings have been using language, in the modern sense of the term, for at least 40,000 years and probably closer to 200,000 years or perhaps even more. Given this circumstance, we know virtually nothing about the original form of human language or what the original human language was like except in the most general sense. No offense, but in matters of linguistics, I’m more apt to believe a professional linguist than someone making unsupported claims on an anonymous message board. ---
**Author:** ![lez999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lez999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lez999)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672/20 "2003-01-02T15:25:58Z")
Haha, ok fair enough that you would prefer a professional over me but like he said we virtually know nothing about the original form of human language, so here is some proof. G.R. Sampson, Professor of Natural Language Computing states and I quote “I’m afraid it definitely wasn’t Hebrew; Hebrew script was a version of the Semitic alphabet which is less old than Egyptian hieroglyphic writing…” Implying then that yes languages existed before hebrew but none were based on an alphabet of letters. Hebrew was the first alphabetised language and therefore her words could not have been based on a previous language. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-i-think-cecil-is-wrong-abaracadabra/145672.md?page=2)