# Actually, no, the War on Poverty was not a failure **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936 "2014-10-29T21:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/1 "2014-10-29T21:44:08Z")
As we celebrate its 50th anniversary, I keep seeing the “failure” meme popping up on the Intertubes. True, we still have poverty, and the whole thing might have been more effective if the Vietnam War had not drained the funding. [Still, so far as it went, it was well worth doing.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson) > [@](#): > > Programs launched by Johnson through his Great Society initiative include: > Head Start Program > Higher Education Act of 1965 > Job Corps > Samuel Jefferson Mason > Model Cities Program > NASA Art Program > Bilingual Education Act > Community Action Agencies > Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 > Elementary and Secondary Education > National Endowment for the Arts > National Endowment for the Humanities > Office of Economic Opportunity > Teacher Corps > Project Follow Through > Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program > Upward Bound > > For years conservatives have attacked Johnson for this “failed” initiative, but poverty dropped from 20% when he took office to 12% when he left. It clearly worked among the black community with a drop from 55% in 1960 to 27% in 1968. It was also the last time the Gini coefficient was less than .400 (still high today for the West) in the United States.[2] Not exactly a “failure,” if anything staunch success by a rational estimate, but conservatives will never see fact with these estimates. [See also.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty#Results_and_aftermath) ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/2 "2014-10-29T22:05:31Z")
Don’t forget Medicare and Medicaid. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/3 "2014-10-29T22:53:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As we celebrate its 50th anniversary, I keep seeing the “failure” meme popping up on the Intertubes. True, we still have poverty, and the whole thing might have been more effective if the Vietnam War had not drained the funding. [Still, so far as it went, it was well worth doing.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson) > > [See also.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Poverty#Results_and_aftermath) “poverty dropped from 20% when he took office to 12% when he left” Sorry, but six years is not enough to judge the benefit and drawbacks of any such policies imo. Figures can be massaged; economic upswings can bring people temporarily out of poverty; downswings can plunge them back into poverty. [http://elcoushistory.tripod.com/economics1960.html](http://elcoushistory.tripod.com/economics1960.html) “President Johnson inherited a strong economy from president Kennedy. The growth during his presidency between 1964 and 1965 gave him an annual dividend of $4-5 billion in extra revenues to spend. For the first two years of Johnson’s presidency the inflation rate was just under 2 percent. In 1965 inflation began to pick up slightly, but the GNP (gross national product) grew by $9 billion and unemployment stood at 1.4 percent. \*The economy was looking better during the winter of 1966: real growth was 9 percent, and with unemployment at 3.8 \*percent the economy was robust. As it reached 1967 Johnson administration became concerned with inflation” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/4 "2014-10-30T13:40:54Z")
Cool correlation stats, bro. Now all you have to do is prove causation. For each of those programs you listed. Not saying you are wrong, just saying you have not proved your case by linking to RationalWiki. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/5 "2014-10-30T13:51:43Z")
Could you demonstrate specifically how the National Endowment for the Arts and National Endowment for the Humanities reduced the poverty rate? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/6 "2014-10-30T13:57:12Z")
Fed the starving artists? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/7 "2014-10-30T14:00:04Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Fed the starving artists? Are you inviting **Starving Artist** into this thread to testify? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/8 "2014-10-30T15:24:40Z")
It’s also the case that the poverty rate was already [dropping](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States) before LBJ took office. It was around 22% in 1959, for instance, and it was already well below 20% (more like 18%) when he took over. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/9 "2014-10-30T16:01:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As we celebrate its 50th anniversary, I keep seeing the “failure” meme popping up on the Intertubes. True, we still have poverty, and the whole thing might have been more effective if the Vietnam War had not drained the funding. [Still, so far as it went, it was well worth doing.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson) > > > [@](#): > > > > Programs launched by Johnson through his Great Society initiative include: > > [SNIP] > > Samuel Jefferson Mason As far as I can tell, this is the [name of a EE professor at MIT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Jefferson_Mason). How is he a “program launched by Johnson through his Great Society initiative?” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/10 "2014-10-30T16:30:21Z")
I was also surprised to learn that Elementary and Secondary Education were programs launched under Johnson through his Great Society Initiative. I could have sworn I was in elementary school before Kennedy was shot. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/11 "2014-10-30T16:48:22Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > As far as I can tell, this is the [name of a EE professor at MIT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Jefferson_Mason). How is he a “program launched by Johnson through his Great Society initiative?” He started a program called [Upward Bound](http://www2.ed.gov/programs/trioupbound/index.html). I had to look it up, but I’ll bet \*\*Cal Meacham \*\*has heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/12 "2014-10-30T17:12:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > He started a program called [Upward Bound](http://www2.ed.gov/programs/trioupbound/index.html). I had to look it up, but I’ll bet \*\*Cal Meacham \*\*has heard of him. Sorry. Even though I overlapped briefly with him, I don’t recall ever hearing of him while I was at the Institute. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/13 "2014-10-30T17:15:53Z")
Then whoever made up that list was sloppy or was cheating because that program is listed separately. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/14 "2014-10-30T18:09:45Z")
The list is just the list of article names under Wikipedia’s Great Society category. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/15 "2014-10-30T18:23:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Then whoever made up that list was sloppy or was cheating because that program is listed separately. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The list is just the list of article names under Wikipedia’s Great Society category. Im guessing the article is not to be fully trusted: “Johnson also signed the Gun Control Act of 1968, which upset conservatives who believed that it was a massive conspiracy to take away their only defense from hippies who hid in the bushes and randomly attacked you unless you had a gun 24/7.” ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/16 "2014-10-30T18:58:57Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > He started a program called [Upward Bound](http://www2.ed.gov/programs/trioupbound/index.html). I had to look it up, but I’ll bet \*\*Cal Meacham \*\*has heard of him. I was a participant in the Upward Bound program 1968 - 1971 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/17 "2014-10-30T19:17:18Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Im guessing the article is not to be fully trusted: > > “Johnson also signed the Gun Control Act of 1968, which upset conservatives who believed that it was a massive conspiracy to take away their only defense from hippies who hid in the bushes and randomly attacked you unless you had a gun 24/7.” Rationalwiki, which was set up by editors banned from Conservapedia, has a sarcastic streak. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/18 "2014-10-30T20:02:17Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > l Act of 1968, which upset conservatives who believed that it was a massive conspiracy to take away their only defense from hippies who hid in the bushes and randomly attacked you unless you had a gun 24/7." I’m pretty sure that was a video game. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/19 "2014-10-30T21:50:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Cool correlation stats, bro. Now all you have to do is prove causation. For each of those programs you listed. > > Not saying you are wrong, just saying you have not proved your case by linking to RationalWiki. ERMAHGERD! ERVERDERNCE [http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/study-us-poverty-rate-decreased-over-past-half-century-thanks-to-safety-net-programs/2013/12/09/9322c834-60f3-11e3-94ad-004fefa61ee6\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/study-us-poverty-rate-decreased-over-past-half-century-thanks-to-safety-net-programs/2013/12/09/9322c834-60f3-11e3-94ad-004fefa61ee6_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936/20 "2014-10-30T21:57:24Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > “Johnson also signed the Gun Control Act of 1968, which upset conservatives who believed that it was a massive conspiracy to take away their only defense from hippies who hid in the bushes and randomly attacked you unless you had a gun 24/7.” And a few months later…the Manson murders. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/actually-no-the-war-on-poverty-was-not-a-failure/702936.md?page=2)