# ADA leads to death of UC Berkeley free online courses **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118 "2017-03-13T21:44:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/41 "2017-03-14T03:37:56Z")
You know what I think of the OP? I think I am sick of the fucking partisanship. HD is so fucking gleeful that he found a tragedy that can be laid at the feet of the liberals. He doesn’t give a shit if the problem is fixed, he only wants to be able to blame the Democrat party for it. Am I right HD? You know, I don’t like the conservatives on the majority of their policies. Healthcare, climate change and environmental protection (or lack thereof), incentivizing incarceration of our citizens, and electing Donald Trump are all things I disagree with Republicans on. But I agree with them (to a point) on taxation, regulation, some of their immigration stances, and fiscal restraint (when they actually seem to care about these issues - i.e. when Democrats are in the White House). I could make a very long list of all the things that I think were stupid that the Obama administration did and a list of their policies that I disagreed with. I could even point out a shitload of problems with the ADA beyond the tragedy that Hurrican Ditka is soooo upset about (gleeful, I tell you). That does not mean that I think the ADA is all bad anymore than I believe a piece of conservative legislation is all bad. Though, to be honest, I am having a hard time thinking of any notable conservative legislation. Medicare part D? No child left behind? The bankruptcy bill in 2005? Whatever. There are issues with all legislation and all legislation can lead to injustice, even legislation proposed and passed by conservatives. Why the fuck do we have to make running the country a team sport? HD? Why the fuck are you so gleeful about this? Why don’t you propose a solution or should we just scrap the whole fucking thing at let disabled people rot? What would your rather do? Rather than crowing about how stupid the liberals are, why don’t you propose a solution? Now, in all seriousness, how about we exempt charitable giving from the ADA? Would this sidestep these kinds of issues? What would be the consequences of these changes? Soup kitchens not reachable by disabled homeless people? People using the fig leaf of charity to cover serious flaws in their services? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/42 "2017-03-14T03:40:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I am, however, grateful for the spectacle of a conservative griping because he doesn’t have as much access to free stuff as he used to. Exactly. Since when do conservatives consider it a “tragedy” that taxpayer-funded education resources aren’t being disseminated to all and sundry for free just like the godless commies used to do? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/43 "2017-03-14T03:46:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I mildly suggest that as regards this particular OP and the kinds of threads he starts, it’s more unusual for something to NOT be a partisan issue. From the title “2016 Election-from-Heck RnnrUp” alone I can surmise much. But even so, this particular act as noted upthread was signed by HW Bush and amended by GW Bush. It protects rich white people, too! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/44 "2017-03-14T04:03:04Z")
I just want to add one thing along the lines of my previous rant: I _ **really** _ miss the good old days when conservatives would propose solutions to problems. What the hell has happened to the Republican party anyway? They have no ideas that I can see to address the problems in the headlines. Or if they do have solutions, they sure suck at presenting them. I want them to succeed… I really do. When Trump won and both the Senate and the House stayed in Republican hands I was mostly disappointed. Very disappointed. But, I’ll admit, a part of me was hopeful. The partisan gridlock we have in this country is killing us. And while I did not think that Obama was a bad President (he was a good, but not great, president - he _ **is** _ a great man), I was happy to see the status quo break. Hillary with a Republican house (nevermind a Republican Senate) would have been a disaster. So, in a sense, what has happened is great: the Republicans now have control. They can try their ideas. They can fix the problems. Stop wage stagnation. Bring back jobs. Fix Healthcare. Make America great again. They have the majority in the House, Senate, Judiciary, State Houses, and Governorships. There is very little standing in their way. A weak and divided opposition party, nothing more. I am waiting. If Trump does half of this, I will vote for him in 2020. So far, I am not very enthusiastic. To me, it looks like he is making stuff worse and I have not seen any great ideas come out of his administration yet. At least nothing that I am convinced will make a positive difference. But I will wait. He has 4 years. Maybe people like HD have ideas on how to fix things. This is their chance. But it would be helpful if they presented their ideas instead of just gloating about what losers Democrats are and how their policies suck. Not helpful. Suggest a solution. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/45 "2017-03-14T04:04:27Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I’m just starting to get educated on this, but I hope it doesn’t spell doom for other online education entities. Bye-bye MIT Open Courseware if you can’t get in Braille? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/46 "2017-03-14T04:09:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Bye-bye MIT Open Courseware if you can’t get in Braille? They and Harvard both resolved their ADA/Online Courseware issues in [2015](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/12/advocates-for-deaf-sue-harvard-mit-over-lack-captioning-free-online-courses/kRyh3K7VNje9vhOSvjro6N/story.html), ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/47 "2017-03-14T04:16:57Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > I just want to add one thing along the lines of my previous rant: I _ **really** _ miss the good old days when conservatives would propose solutions to problems. What the hell has happened to the Republican party anyway? They have no ideas that I can see to address the problems in the headlines. Or if they do have solutions, they sure suck at presenting them. If I had to guess, it started with Southern Strategy and was cemented when they hitched themselves to politically-awakening evangelicals in the 1970s. This injected a great deal of irrationality into the party, where problems can be dogmatically blamed on blacks or liberals or Satan. _Why_ is there crime? Blame blacks. _Why_ is there scary-sounding popular music? Blame liberals. _Why_ are people dying of AIDS? Blame Satan. _Why_ is there abortion? Blame liberals _and_ Satan. It’s a very convenient way to avoid searching for the roots of an issue, let alone finding plausible realistic ways to address it. The modern take is to blame job loss on regulation and by extension, government itself. But won’t getting rid of government affect entitlements like Medicare and Medicaid? Sure, that’s how it would seem to someone still capable of reason, but modern Republicans ain’t them. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/48 "2017-03-14T05:44:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If I had to guess, it started with Southern Strategy and was cemented when they hitched themselves to politically-awakening evangelicals in the 1970s. This injected a great deal of irrationality into the party I disagree. The fundamental (heh) irrationality was already there: the religious right just gave conservatives a workaround for it. Namely, since long before the days of Coolidge conservatives have maintained a core belief that government should be run for the benefit of wealthy individuals and business interests. (In many cases this has been accompanied by a sincere belief that what’s best for wealthy individuals and business interests really will be best for everyone else too.) But in the aftermath of the New Deal and WWII, that notion was a very tough sell to voters. Hysteria about Communists and “militant Negroes” wasn’t enough by itself to ensure conservative representation in government. Conservatives had to actually think about and implement ways of solving problems affecting the average voter, even though they sometimes required using rich people’s money. But the rise of the religious right in response to the rapid liberalization of the Sixties freed conservative politicians from the need to accomplish practical benefits for ordinary people in order to garner votes. The ideological war against all things “liberal” and against the whole idea of government in general was enough. So from Reagan onward, we’ve had a conservative movement whose only real populist principle (as opposed to the longstanding core belief that government should be run for the benefit of wealthy individuals and business interests) is being opposed to government. When the conservatives happen to be the ones actually **running** the government, this induces strong cognitive dissonance and amplification of their anti-government and anti-liberal rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/49 "2017-03-14T05:48:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s a very convenient way to avoid searching for the roots of an issue,… Satan > [@](#): > > …let alone finding plausible realistic ways to address it. God You pointed it out in your own post! What you’re saying is that you don’t agree with their conclusions and solutions. No rational person would, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/50 "2017-03-14T06:00:59Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I disagree. The fundamental (heh) irrationality was already there: the religious right just gave conservatives a workaround for it. > > Namely, since long before the days of Coolidge conservatives have maintained a core belief that government should be run for the benefit of wealthy individuals and business interests. (In many cases this has been accompanied by a sincere belief that what’s best for wealthy individuals and business interests really will be best for everyone else too.) > > But in the aftermath of the New Deal and WWII, that notion was a very tough sell to voters. Hysteria about Communists and “militant Negroes” wasn’t enough by itself to ensure conservative representation in government. Conservatives had to actually think about and implement ways of solving problems affecting the average voter, even though they sometimes required using rich people’s money. Well… yes, but the Democrats bought into that, too (especially the southern pre-1970s ones where anything “Negro” was involved). I wasn’t trying to explain the problems of “conservatives”, but specifically of modern Republicans, and I’ll cheerfully grant the terms should not be considered synonymous. Heck, someone like Charles Coughlin (arguably the _original_ Social Justice Warrior), had he lived to be 130, would have been one of those guys who started out as a Democrat, then gradually swung to the Republicans and these days would be using his radio show to praise Trump and call for him to take on those dirty Jew bankers. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/51 "2017-03-14T06:22:15Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Ok, this gets to the heart of the issue. I don’t think anyone would argue the simple numbers, as in it’s a bigger tragedy if no one had access to the lectures than just the disabled students. It’s a simple numbers thing. However, I’ve yet to see an actual dollar amount quoted for how much it would cost Berkeley to correct their online course issues. Until that number is known, how do we know it would be an “unreasonable” burden? I think the _optimal_ resolution would be to correct the matter and let all benefit. Any number is unreasonable - remember, 1.6 billion in the hole? There just isn’t any money for the things that the bleeding hearts aren’t currently on about. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/52 "2017-03-14T06:24:09Z")
Well this seems to have all been an excellent lesson in the Journalism of Social Change. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/53 "2017-03-14T07:20:08Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Any number is unreasonable - remember, 1.6 billion in the hole? There just isn’t any money for the things that the bleeding hearts aren’t currently on about. Holy shit… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/54 "2017-03-14T07:35:21Z")
Wait. You understood that? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/55 "2017-03-14T13:06:45Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > You know what I think of the OP? I think I am sick of the fucking partisanship. HD is so fucking gleeful that he found a tragedy that can be laid at the feet of the liberals. He doesn’t give a shit if the problem is fixed, he only wants to be able to blame the Democrat party for it. Am I right HD? Yep, it’s a story about UC BERKLEY and the ADA, that there’s some red meat there for the tighty-righties to snicker about with their #MAGA hat wearing Real AmericanTM buddies. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/56 "2017-03-14T15:37:53Z")
It seems to me that the ADA isn’t the issue, the Justice Department is. ADA calls only for “reasonable accomodations”. An extremely expensive accomodation is not reasonable. The ADA is good law, but as with any law an overly activist Justice Department(or an insufficiently activist one) can screw it all up. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/57 "2017-03-14T16:25:45Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > This sounds like one of the rare but sadly expected consequences of legislation like this. Ten steps forward, one step back type of thing. Using this as a reason to attack the ADA is not something you will get a lot of support for. By that logic no white males should be allowed to own guns because of Tim McVeigh, The Bundy clan, Dylan roof, etc. Ummm … Timothy McVeigh didn’t kill people with a gun. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/58 "2017-03-14T16:32:23Z")
Clearly we need to make possession of truck bombs illegal. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/59 "2017-03-14T17:02:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I mildly suggest that as regards this particular OP and the kinds of threads he starts, it’s more unusual for something to NOT be a partisan issue. Really? [Here is a list of threads I’ve started](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=13978800). Certainly some of those are partisan in nature, but plenty aren’t (Venezuela, “gender assigned at birth”, genocide, Israeli settlements, Dopers intelligence, Pearl Harbor, news sources, global warming, Star Wars, post-literate, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118/60 "2017-03-14T17:12:57Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > You know what I think of the OP? I think I am sick of the fucking partisanship. HD is so fucking gleeful that he found a tragedy that can be laid at the feet of the liberals. He doesn’t give a shit if the problem is fixed, he only wants to be able to blame the Democrat party for it. Am I right HD? No, you’re not right. > [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > HD? Why the fuck are you so gleeful about this? Why don’t you propose a solution or should we just scrap the whole fucking thing at let disabled people rot? What would your rather do? Rather than crowing about how stupid the liberals are, why don’t you propose a solution? I don’t know where you get “gleeful” from my post. I’m one of the ones that thinks it’s more along the lines of a tragedy. As for what to do about it, I’d probably support something along the lines of strengthening the language behind “reasonable” in “reasonable accommodations”. Maybe put some expenditure limit above which the accommodation is considered objectively unreasonable, or a percentage of profits of an organization, or exempt non-profits, or free online content, etc. Each of those would have their own negatives, mostly for disabled people. Overall, my sense is that the ADA has been stretched to the point where it’s starting to do harm. Too many emotional support dogs and things of that nature. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ada-leads-to-death-of-uc-berkeley-free-online-courses/782118.md?page=4)