Yes, service dogs are trained to be unobtrusive.
Yes, I understand. I was speculating on how a nicer maitre d’ might have responded, and wondering whether that would be okay under the ADA.
Absolutely. I don’t think ADA sets any ceiling on how nice you can be, merely a floor.
I hate to speak for him, but I think Leo Bloom’s point was that as soon as someone invokes ADA ( e.g. by invoking “reasonable accommodation”), you can be sure that there has been some kind of breakdown and usually someone ( either a merchant or a customer) is being a jerk.
Not to belabor this…but I’m about to.
I can imagine a legitimate concern on the part of an otherwise reasonable and compliant manager about a dog in the aisles/bothering other patrons. I mean those animals are trained well, but some will misbehave, they’re not perfect. Is expressing and discussing such a concern even allowed, or does that get into UNreasonable accommodation territory, punishable by lawsuit?
To be clear, I am not against the ADA, just curious.
Actually, a true service dog will not misbehave (or very rarely). The problem is there is no formal certification for service dogs. You can buy a animal that is “certified” that is untrained, aggressive and there have been cases of dogs not even housebroken.
Well, you have put your finger on a sore spot. I’ll put in my 2cents, then bow out of this discussion.
It is true that the prospect of being forced to make accommodations that you weren’t planning to is an irritant to many establishments.
Some accommodations, such as building modifications, can be very spendy. Whatever the cost, it feels like an unfounded mandate to the business owner.
Some accommodations are problematic for other reasons. They may not make much sense to a business owner, for a variety of reasons.
The issue of service dogs sits here, I think. Ignoring all the wonderful things service dogs do for people (that is, seeing the downside risks from a merchant’s point of view), dogs make some people nervous, for a variety of reasons. Even merchants who are comfortable with dogs may worry that some valuable customers may not be. Dogs are viewed as dirty animals by many. There is a non-zero chance that the dog may make a mess on the floor. Some people may be allergic to dogs; others are very fearful of dogs, sometimes because of significant prior traumas- they cannot expect “reasonable accommodation”. Business owners may fear that they may pulled into liability exposure if someone is harmed by a service dog on their premises.
ALSO, I think it bothers some people that there exists a class of people who are allowed to take there “pets” anywhere. This is exacerbated by the known existence of “faux” service dogs. We had a lively thread discussion about the significance of that last summer. (I think that was titled “Service Dog?”, but I can’t figure out how to link it on this device.)
Anyway, I’m done with this. Hopefully Leo Bloom can answer any other questions you have.
As an example of the above … a year-ish ago I tossed a passenger off my aircraft. (At the gate of course; in-flight would have caused too much paperwork.)
She had brought on a Labrador as an “emotional support service animal”. Which we are required to accommodate subject to certain limitations on size, behavior etc.
The dog was as sweet as a young lab can be. And utterly untrained in anything other than licking all the exciting new strangers & exploring the entire cabin. During boarding of a full flight.
We got her to understand the dog needed to get under the seat ahead of her near her feet and stay there. Which she half-heartedly tried to do.
After the 2nd time the dog got up from the under-seat space and assaulted the unrelated adjacent passenger with enthusiastic paws in lap and doggy kisses to face I called King’s X and terminated her passage.
From the gate agent & FA’s I learned the woman had been a demanding jerk throughout the pre-board; she wanted a free upgrade to first class because after all, the dog needed the extra space. And she was not nice when that request wasn’t granted. Then she wanted the seat next to her blocked so the dog could sit there. Considering dog hygiene and anatomy, you can decide whether you want yourself, or your kid, to sit in that seat next. As well, we had a full flight, so blocking that seat would have left some other paying customer behind. In her view that was the airline’s problem, not hers.
FYI, we charge to ship dogs in kennels in the belly, like an extra bag fee. Service animals, by law, ride in the cabin for free. And the law on service animals doesn’t distinguish between dogs to assist the blind and critters of all sorts purporting to assist the emotionally unstable.
I said that I would bow out, but…
This woman is exactly the problem, and no part of the solution.
They revised the definition of service dogs in 2011.
Although the definition is still quite broad, it does exclude animals whose “sole purpose” is comfort. (Although this does seem to be a fine distinction from an Autism PTSD dog, the difference is in the training and range of functions.)
It still is hard to identify a *faux *service dog, until you see it in action, as you did. And don’t get me started on those who would pass off their well-trained dogs as service dogs just because they can!
That was meant to read: “…**unfunded **mandate…”.
Leo here. I have to run, and I’m interested in all the questions asked, and I do often think of proprietors and the law and their headaches, even without the scummy/scammy fake service doggers, and will post more later.
Yes, I have a licensed service dog, for realsies, and he is able, like all service dogs save a Great Dane I saw once accompanying a mentally unwell woman, to curl himself out of sight and mind under any table. Even though he is big. He even wraps himself behind the foot rest and ledge beneath coffee shop stools, which impressed even me. (Photo to come if I can find it.)
I’m interested: Does anyone in this thread not get this?
And remember, ADA provides for a REASONABLE accommodation. It doesn’t mean the person gets whatever they want. For Leo Bloom, I think a seat in the corner where the dog is out of the way is reasonable. It does not mean he gets whatever table he wants. I’m not saying what Leo wanted was unreasonable but he did get his accommodation with the original seat and I would be hesitant having a dog in the middle of an aisle, not because of the dog but people are idiots and all you need is a waiter carrying a hot bowl of soup and …
I get it.
I like the song. But for reasons I nan neither fathom nor explain, I like all songs about radio.
I also know the backstory, which matches the OP’s caller quite well.
Reported. With pleasure.