# Adaher is a Big Giant RACIST **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 3, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740 "2015-04-03T19:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/181 "2015-04-08T16:18:53Z")
Just say you hate blacks and gays adaher, no one’s convinced by your argument and there are a small group of people who will probably respect you a little more if you stop lying about your bigotry : oldrolleyes : ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/182 "2015-04-08T16:22:21Z")
As soon as you admit to being for the terrorists.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/183 "2015-04-08T16:25:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As soon as you admit to being for the terrorists.🙂 Well, I might could find some nice things to say about the Weather Underground; but the Symbionese Liberation Army were just clowns. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/184 "2015-04-08T16:26:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, I did. The CRA’s definition of public accommodation is very specific and very narrow. It doesn’t specifically or clearly not include places of business like wedding planners, florists, caterers, and the like. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/185 "2015-04-08T16:28:16Z")
b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action: OOO)(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence; adaher- (so note that private homeowners can legally discriminate on the basis of race) OOO)(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station; OO)O(3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and OOO)(4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/186 "2015-04-08T16:46:59Z")
So you are racist, you just want someone else to lie so you’d feel better? Gotcha, you racist. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/187 "2015-04-08T18:05:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, I might could find some nice things to say about the Weather Underground; but the Symbionese Liberation Army were just clowns. Sandinistas? ANC? Pvt. Manning? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/188 "2015-04-08T20:20:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action: > OOO)(1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence; adaher- (so note that private homeowners can legally discriminate on the basis of race) > OOO)(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station; > OO)O(3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and > OOO)(4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment. And it doesn’t exclude service establishments. And it’s [not the only law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/12181) that discusses public accommodations: > [@](#): > > (7) Public accommodation > The following private entities are considered public accommodations for purposes of this subchapter, if the operations of such entities affect commerce— > (A) an inn, hotel, motel, or other place of lodging, except for an establishment located within a building that contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and that is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as the residence of such proprietor; > (B) a restaurant, bar, or other establishment serving food or drink; > (C) a motion picture house, theater, concert hall, stadium, or other place of exhibition or entertainment; > (D) an auditorium, convention center, lecture hall, or other place of public gathering; > (E) a bakery, grocery store, clothing store, hardware store, shopping center, or other sales or rental establishment; > (F) a laundromat, dry-cleaner, bank, barber shop, beauty shop, travel service, shoe repair service, funeral parlor, gas station, office of an accountant or lawyer, pharmacy, insurance office, professional office of a health care provider, hospital, **or other service establishment** ; > (G) a terminal, depot, or other station used for specified public transportation; > (H) a museum, library, gallery, or other place of public display or collection; > (I) a park, zoo, amusement park, or other place of recreation; > (J) a nursery, elementary, secondary, undergraduate, or postgraduate private school, or other place of education; > (K) a day care center, senior citizen center, homeless shelter, food bank, adoption agency, or other social service center establishment; and > (L) a gymnasium, health spa, bowling alley, golf course, or other place of exercise or recreation. The [US Code](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Code) is real US law, and doesn’t conflict with the CRA. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/189 "2015-04-09T02:47:46Z")
I still see nothing in there that affects businesses that are just people providing personal services, especially when those services do not require a business license. But we can clear this up simply by finding an example of a federal action against such a person. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/190 "2015-04-09T03:52:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I still see nothing in there that affects businesses that are just people providing personal services, especially when those services do not require a business license. But we can clear this up simply by finding an example of a federal action against such a person. You’re on the wrong side of history. Does the thought of that not bother you? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/191 "2015-04-09T04:07:38Z")
You see a totalitarian history where thought crimes are punishable by imprisonment? There’s a reason that our anti-discrimination laws so carefully define when discrimination becomes actionable. Are you arguing that those laws are too lax, that we need to extend them to situations where no real harm is being done? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/192 "2015-04-09T05:19:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You see a totalitarian history where thought crimes are punishable by imprisonment? Nope. Do you? There are medications that can treat that kind of psychosis. > [@](#): > > There’s a reason that our anti-discrimination laws so carefully define when discrimination becomes actionable. Are you arguing that those laws are too lax, that we need to extend them to situations where no real harm is being done? Who says no harm is done when discrimination deprives people of equal opportunity? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/193 "2015-04-09T05:23:58Z")
the law already covers those situations. If you want to make an argument that the law needs to be extended to cover more situations, do so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/194 "2015-04-09T11:09:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I still see nothing in there that affects businesses that are just people providing personal services, especially when those services do not require a business license. But we can clear this up simply by finding an example of a federal action against such a person. “Other service establishments” is pretty damn broad, and could very easily include “people providing personal services” – especially if they’ve incorporated, or have a storefront, or a business website, etc. In any case, it’s certainly not been established that wedding planners, florists, and caterers are exempt from the CRA. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/195 "2015-04-09T11:11:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > the law already covers those situations. If you want to make an argument that the law needs to be extended to cover more situations, do so. The law should be extended to include the same protections for gay couples that exist for interracial couples. That’s what is being advocated. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/196 "2015-04-09T11:25:04Z")
I agree completely, I just don’t think many marriage services are covered under the federal CRA or any other federal legislation. But I’m open to being proven wrong. One thing I’m pretty sure I’m right about is that individuals in business for themselves are not “establishments”. Labor is definitely not covered under the CRA, and a lot of these persons who can be hired for specific jobs are in a gray area between business and labor. What you seem to be arguing is that Jenny the Wedding Planner can refuse to work for McWedding Planners because her boss would be a woman, but she can’t refuse to work for Mrs. and Mrs. Smith, who are women. Which may very well be true, but I’ve seen nothing convincing at the federal level that shows it is true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/197 "2015-04-09T11:41:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I agree completely, I just don’t think many marriage services are covered under the federal CRA or any other federal legislation. But I’m open to being proven wrong. > > One thing I’m pretty sure I’m right about is that individuals in business for themselves are not “establishments”. Labor is definitely not covered under the CRA, and a lot of these persons who can be hired for specific jobs are in a gray area between business and labor. What you seem to be arguing is that Jenny the Wedding Planner can refuse to work for McWedding Planners because her boss would be a woman, but she can’t refuse to work for Mrs. and Mrs. Smith, who are women. Which may very well be true, but I’ve seen nothing convincing at the federal level that shows it is true. You’re probably right about individuals – we’re advocating the same requirements for businesses. A person advertising themselves as a “wedding planner”, with a website and/or a storefront, may very well consider themselves as the owner of a small business (when they’re not being challenged for denying service). If you own and run a business, even if it’s _just you_, then your business can’t (or shouldn’t) discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/198 "2015-04-09T12:06:47Z")
So yeah, if you have a business license, rather than a strictly freelance gig. But even there, as per the Hobby Lobby decision, someone who really feels forced to violate their faith should be able to get a hearing in court and make the government prove that there’s a compelling interest at stake. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/199 "2015-04-09T21:51:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So yeah, if you have a business license, rather than a strictly freelance gig. . . . If you’re taking money for it, this can lead you into trouble. People have been fined for doing business without a license. Meanwhile, even if you’re purely freelance, if you take money for it and also engage in racial discrimination, you can get in trouble for it. It isn’t legal. People have tried to get around this by pretending to be “social clubs” or “private parties.” But when money is exchanged for goods or services, that disguise fails. (There actually are valid private clubs and parties, which do have the legal right to discriminate. But they have to be very careful not to get caught vending.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740/200 "2015-04-09T23:31:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > If you’re taking money for it, this can lead you into trouble. People have been fined for doing business without a license. Just as discrimination is not illegal in all cases, not all commerce requires the government’s permission. Believe it or not, you can sell goods and services without a license in many cases. Generally, a person doing freelance only needs a license if it’s already a licensed profession. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, even if you’re purely freelance, if you take money for it and also engage in racial discrimination, you can get in trouble for it. It isn’t legal. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are places where this kind of activity is so regulated, but it’s certainly not regulated that way at the federal level. Because there’s one HUGE loophole in that: if you sell your labor, you can discriminate all you want. So I’d be pretty surprised if you could produce a cite that selling your labor to another person as opposed to a licensed business suddenly causes anti-discrimination laws to kick in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-is-a-big-giant-racist/716740.md?page=11)