# adaher, you cowardly shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798 "2015-11-17T13:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/81 "2015-11-17T19:46:34Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Europe, on the other hand, has assimilated its Muslim immigrants poorly, and has created an atmosphere of us-versus-them and a permanent Muslim underclass. Especially since in many cases it never meant to assimilate them at all: starting in the '50s and '60s many European countries started recruiting cheap labor from postcolonial Muslim nations, assuming they’d be staying only for a short while and never really addressing the problems of their acculturation till much more recently. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/82 "2015-11-17T19:49:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’d like you to read the following words, please; > > Which of the following America-hating pinko liberals said that? > > A) Rachel Maddow > > B) Saul Alinsky > > C) Al Sharpton > > D) George W. Bush > > I’ll give you four guesses. He’ll probably pick Maddow four times. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/83 "2015-11-17T19:49:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Since when did expressing an opinion based in common sense become fear? Because liberals, that’s why. Expressing an opinion isn’t fear- heck, I’m not even sure how you’d come to that conclusion, since it doesn’t even make grammatical sense. No, being afraid to let in refugees because they \*might \*be terrorists in disguise is fear. Fear is apparently the biggest GOP motivator these days. Fear of immigrants (because they might be rapists, criminals, or _carriers of Ebola_, fer cryin’ out loud). Fear that Obama might be a Muslim sympathizer out to destroy America. Fear of homosexuality. Fear of Guatamo prisoners. Fear that liberals might be right about _anything_. That’s all that gets the conservative voters into the booths, and that’s all that Fox News pushes. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/84 "2015-11-17T19:55:06Z")
Smapti, the point your missing, that’s well received here, is that being Muslim doesn’t make you a terrorist, nor does being a terrorist make you a Muslim. However, being in ISIS generally makes you a Muslim (Islamic) terrorist. So you can quit with the “Muslims are good people shtick,” because no one is doubting that. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/85 "2015-11-17T19:57:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Only a moron with a head made of concrete would not think that the so-called “refugees” are not packed full of ISIS terrorists. [They’ve already been doing it in Europe.](http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees) And yet the morons want to import them into our country by the friggin’ thousands. Why? Was it just too much effort for them to sneak across the border from Mexico that you so desperately want kept wide open, and so you decided to make it easier for them out of compassion and shit? Terrorists don’t need to sneak anywhere or hide in groups of refugees. For example, Mohammad Atta came through Newark International. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/86 "2015-11-17T19:57:55Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > No, being afraid to let in refugees because they \*might \*be terrorists in disguise is fear. Fear is apparently the biggest GOP motivator these days. Fear of immigrants …(because they might be rapists, criminals, or _carriers of Ebola_, fer cryin’ out loud). Fear that Obama might be a Muslim sympathizer out to destroy America. Fear of homosexuality. Fear of Guatamo prisoners. Fear that liberals might be right about _anything_. > > … I guess you could say the same thing about that “No Fly List” too. It’s just the government catering to fear and suspicion at the expense of the rights of those on the list to fly. But wait, isn’t that what governments are suppose to do? Protect the citizens by whatever legal means works? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/87 "2015-11-17T19:58:23Z")
I am absolutely smacked that all those God fearing states who say they want Christian values reflected in government want no part of helping these poor people. That’s a very curious interpretation of Christian values, don’t you think? Maybe it’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/88 "2015-11-17T20:02:07Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I guess you could say the same thing about that “No Fly List” too. It’s just the government catering to fear and suspicion at the expense of the rights of those on the list to fly. But wait, isn’t that what governments are suppose to do? Protect the citizens by whatever legal means works? Those on the no-fly list have some specific reason why they are not allowed to fly. It is not a broad brush prohibition. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/89 "2015-11-17T20:03:21Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I am absolutely smacked that all those God fearing states who say they want Christian values reflected in government want no part of helping these poor people. That’s a very curious interpretation of Christian values, don’t you think? > > Maybe it’s just me. What’s the Christian value regarding slaughtering innocent people? I think they pretty much want that, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/90 "2015-11-17T20:05:47Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > However, being in ISIS generally makes you a Muslim (Islamic) terrorist. And since the people seeking refugee status are seeking that status because _ISIS invaded their homes and drove them out_, it seems very unlikely that there’s overlap between the two groups. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/91 "2015-11-17T20:08:24Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > What’s the Christian value regarding slaughtering innocent people? I think they pretty much want that, don’t you? I believe they’re generally against it. Do you actually think the refugees contain large numbers of people who want to slaughter innocent people? And that rejecting the refugees based on nothing more than their religion keeps us safer? Or are you just here to snark? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/92 "2015-11-17T20:10:06Z")
And I’m thinking that if you really wanted OUT of Daesh, you’d be one of the first volunteers for ‘undercover infiltration’. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/93 "2015-11-17T20:10:18Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Those on the no-fly list have some specific reason why they are not allowed to fly. It is not a broad brush prohibition. Not broad brush, but pretty wide brush. Yes, you can get on the no fly list for; _1. You could raise “reasonable suspicion” that you’re involved in terrorism. “Irrefutable evidence or concrete facts” are not required. 2. You could post something on Facebook or Twitter that raises “reasonable suspicion.” … 5. Or you could just know someone terrorist-y, maybe. … 7. Finally, you could just be unlucky._ > **[7 Ways That You (Yes, You) Could End Up On A Terrorist Watch List](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/terrorist-watch-list_n_5617599)** > > Are you \*sure\* it couldn't happen to you? Pretty much arbitrary to say the least. The government is totally erring on the side of safety. Albeit overreacting with respect to the innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/94 "2015-11-17T20:13:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > And I’m thinking that if you really wanted OUT of Daesh, you’d be one of the first volunteers for ‘undercover infiltration’. Do you know who [else](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pastorius#Mission_betrayed) had infiltrators who weren’t really into their sabotage? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/95 "2015-11-17T20:13:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And since the people seeking refugee status are seeking that status because _ISIS invaded their homes and drove them out_, it seems very unlikely that there’s overlap between the two groups. No, we should clearly ask them if they are ISIS and only if they admit it, disallow them. They will work. Or maybe, given we have no diplomatic ties to Syria, we should search their records, or record if they can find anything like that, and use that data? How do you propose we check them for terrorist ties? ETA, you’re quite sure ISIS hasn’t placed a few operatives in the long lines of refugees? Have you been reading the news? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/96 "2015-11-17T20:14:35Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Only a moron with a head made of concrete would not think that the so-called “refugees” are not packed full of ISIS terrorists. Because of course there are no **actual** refugees (without scare quotes) trying to get out of Syria, desperate, terrified, with nowhere to turn, largely owing to a war we gratuitously started. Nope, all the _good_ Syrians are living comfortably within their own borders and minding their own business. All this “refugee” nonsense is just an ISIS scam to infest western countries with ISIS terrorists. > [@Clothahump](#): > > And when the explosions start happening and the shots start being fired, remember that he told you so. Heck, we don’t need **adaher** to tell us that there will be further ISIS terrorist attacks, I’ll tell you so myself. This is the world we live in for now, and from time to time radical-Islamist violent fundamentalists are going to kill another bunch of people and make all the rest of the world, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, hate them that much more. But we won’t stop those attacks by turning away refugees. If we let ourselves be terrorized into throwing our humanitarian principles down the drain, then you know who’s already won, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/97 "2015-11-17T20:15:14Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Or maybe, given we have no diplomatic ties to Syria, we should search their records, or record if they can find anything like that, and use that data? How do you propose we check them for terrorist ties? How did we check Jewish refugees for enemy ties in WWII? Oh, wait, we didn’t, we just sent them back home to be murdered by the millions. Is that the alternative you’d prefer? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/98 "2015-11-17T20:20:13Z")
You failed to learn anything from the Paris attacks? _One of the most chilling details from the Paris attacks is that the passport of a Syrian refugee was found on or near the body of a dead suicide bomber._ His damn passport didn’t list his occupation as suicide bomber either. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/99 "2015-11-17T20:23:17Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Those on the no-fly list have some specific reason why they are not allowed to fly. It is not a broad brush prohibition. [“60 Minutes” on the No Fly list eight years ago](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/unlikely-terrorists-on-no-fly-list/): > [@](#): > > [Former FBI agent Jack] Cloonan says the No Fly List soon became a “cover your rear end” document designed to protect bureaucrats and make the public feel more secure. > > “I know in our particular case they basically did a massive data dump and said ‘Ok anybody that’s got a nexus to terrorism, let’s make sure they get on the list,’” Cloonan explains. “And once that train left the station, or once that bullet went down range. There was no calling it back. And that is where we are.” > > Jack Cloonan says in the headlong rush to get a list, they forgot quality control. “And, we forgot what this was about. This is to prevent an Islamic terrorist who is associated with al Qaeda from getting on a plane. It lacks efficiency and, it makes us, look ineffective and ill equipped,” he says. Names on the list at the time: > [@](#): > > 14 of the 19 September 11th hijackers. > > Francois Genoud … Nazi sympathizer and financier of Arab terrorism. Been dead for ten years. > > Nabih Berri, the head of the Lebanese parliament. > > Evo Morales, the president of Bolivia. > > Gary Smith > > John Williams > > Robert Johnson, the known alias of a 62-year-old black man who was convicted of plotting to bomb a Hindu temple and a movie theatre in Toronto. After serving 12 years, he was deported to Trinidad. But the airlines ticket agents don’t have any of that information on their computer screens. They just have the name, not even a date of birth. > > Right now the only recourse [for all the Robert Johnsons of the world] is to apply to get on another list of people who shouldn’t be on the list. Donna Bucella of the Terrorist Screening Center says the inconvenience is regrettable, but it’s a price society and anyone named Robert Johnson has to pay for security. > > “Well, Robert Johnson will never get off the list,” Bucella states. Not on the list at the time: > [@](#): > > Dawud Sallahuddin, real name David Belfield, lives in Tehran. He carried out the first assassination in Washington on behalf of Ayatollah Khomeini. Dress up as a mailman and shot somebody. > > [T]he original eleven British suspects recently charged with plotting to blow up ten commercial airliners with liquid explosives, even though they had reportedly been under surveillance for more than a year. A subject that Kip Hawley, the director of the Transportation Security Administration wanted to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/100 "2015-11-17T20:25:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Not broad brush, but pretty wide brush. > > Yes, you can get on the no fly list for; > _1. You could raise “reasonable suspicion” that you’re involved in terrorism. “Irrefutable evidence or concrete facts” are not required. > 2. You could post something on Facebook or Twitter that raises “reasonable suspicion.” > … > 5. Or you could just know someone terrorist-y, maybe. > … > 7. Finally, you could just be unlucky._ > > [7 Ways That You (Yes, You) Could End Up On A Terrorist Watch List | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/terrorist-watch-list_n_5617599.html) > > Pretty much arbitrary to say the least. The government is totally erring on the side of safety. Albeit overreacting with respect to the innocent. I would submit that there is a difference between not allowing someone on an aircraft and denying someone safe refuge from a war zone, the difference between being merely inconvenienced to being denied life’s necessities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798.md?page=6)