# adaher, you cowardly shit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798 "2015-11-17T13:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/141 "2015-11-17T21:42:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, I accepted the premise that my position involved bigotry and discrimination pretty much from the beginning. So if there’s no argument there I won’t engage here anymore. I accept your pitting as far as that goes. > > But while I’m here, I would like to point out a) hypocrisy, and b) rational reasons to support my view, which is not exactly a fringe view. and c) ignore the fact that my position makes the US less safe. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/142 "2015-11-17T21:44:22Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I accept that there is some risk: screening could miss people, or some could be radicalized after entering the US for some reason. But - and here’s the part where your silence is pretty deafening so far - there is substantial risk with rejecting refugees based on their religion. That will have an impact on Muslims already in America. It will make them feel less American, have less stake in America. That is not good. See, you know, the Paris attacks committed largely by Europeans. Or the London 7/7 attacks, committed largely by Europeans. There is little such risk. We’ve been down this road pretty recently: sending Haitian refugees home while admitting Cuban refugees. It was not moral, it was based on no safety concerns, and Haitians complained bitterly about it(as well as black Congressmen), but if it did any real damage to Haitians’ connection to America or black Americans in general, it’s hard to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/143 "2015-11-17T21:46:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There is little such risk. We’ve been down this road pretty recently: sending Haitian refugees home while admitting Cuban refugees. It was not moral, it was based on no safety concerns, and Haitians complained bitterly about it(as well as black Congressmen), but if it did any real damage to Haitians’ connection to America or black Americans in general, it’s hard to tell. Seriously? Are you completely unaware all the terrorist attacks in Europe are largely committed by European Muslims alienated from their societies? Do you think that can’t happen here for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/144 "2015-11-17T21:53:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s not baseless fearmongering. ISIS has said they are doing this, and it’s very easy to do. WTF? It’s insanely difficult to do. You have to build an alternate identity for your sleeper agents that’s thorough and plausible enough to trick the highly paranoid screeners at US embassies who examine the documents; and if they catch one person, you know they’re gonna use networking and algorithmic protocols to look for other refugees with similar backgrounds in order to catch other sleeper agents. So that’s one plan: try to out-spy the US. Another plan: increase anti-Muslim sentiment in the US and other nations such that disaffected Muslims living there find your propaganda easier to swallow, so that you can use the Internet to recruit sleeper agents among the citizenry of those nations. You’re seriously suggesting that the first plan is the one that DAESH wants to follow? You’re seriously saying it’s easier to sneak someone through US embassies than it is to recruit someone already living in the nation, so much easier that you’d rather make the recruitment plan easier? Even if it weren’t the obviously right thing to do, the smart thing to do would be to pull ISIS’s recruitment propaganda away from them by saying loudly and clearly, we want to help Syrian refugees. Say loudly and clearly, America is the land of opportunity for Muslims. Say loudly and clearly, if you want to join our neighborhoods, we welcome you. We win by doing what we should do. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/145 "2015-11-17T22:00:19Z")
Hoo boy. I thought we’d dispensed with those idiotic arguments several years ago. ISIS recruitment is based more on the success of their objectives(as in, conquering the Islamic world and establishing a new caliphate) than Western actions. To the extent that Western actions have provoked ISIS, it’s the big ass bombs we’re dropping that are having the biggest effect. US discrimination against people who don’t even have a right to come to this country in the first place unless we feel like letting them is pretty small potatoes by comparison. When a terrorist attack occurs and the terrorists cite the awfulness of our refugee asylum policy, wake me up. This argument is particularly rich given that our immigration policy has always been discriminatory, with its effects even more discriminatory, yet there have been precisely zero terrorist attacks from slighted immigrant groups over the unjustness of our policy. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/146 "2015-11-17T22:06:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Hoo boy. I thought we’d dispensed with those idiotic arguments several years ago. ISIS recruitment is based more on the success of their objectives(as in, conquering the Islamic world and establishing a new caliphate) than Western actions. To the extent that Western actions have provoked ISIS, it’s the big ass bombs we’re dropping that are having the biggest effect. US discrimination against people who don’t even have a right to come to this country in the first place unless we feel like letting them is pretty small potatoes by comparison. When a terrorist attack occurs and the terrorists cite the awfulness of our refugee asylum policy, wake me up. Hello? McFly? Paris? Just last week? Caused by Europeans who weren’t integrated into their society? You need ISIS to cite immigration policy to make this connection for you? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/147 "2015-11-17T22:13:30Z")
That’s not Europe’s immigration policy, that’s their assimilation policy. And the proximate cause of the attacks was France’s war against ISIS. It’s like saying we bombed Japan because of Nanking. When you’re being attacked, all other grievances pale in comparison. We can treat the Syrian refugees as honored guests and take care of their every need, and there will still be quite a few that want to hurt us because we are bombing their country and/or the militant group they sympathize with. These refugees are running from the WAR, not ISIS specifically. And even the most rational ones will view many perps as responsible for the destruction of their country, us included. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/148 "2015-11-17T22:13:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You failed to learn anything from the Paris attacks? > > _One of the most chilling details from the Paris attacks is that the passport of a Syrian refugee was found on or near the body of a dead suicide bomber._ > > His damn passport didn’t list his occupation as suicide bomber either. **Syrian Passport by Stadium Stolen or Fake, A.F.P. Reports** > [@](#): > > A Syrian passport found near the body of one of the suicide bombers outside the Stade de France after the attacks on Friday may not be a useful clue to the bomber’s identity… Sorry to interrupt, you were saying? ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/149 "2015-11-17T22:24:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And the proximate cause of the attacks was France’s war against ISIS. Why do you think French-born Muslims would identify with ISIS? And what’s one thing we could do right now to help American-born Muslims identify with ISIS? I’ll give you a hint: you’ve posted advocating this very thing right here in this thread. > [@](#): > > That’s not Europe’s immigration policy, that’s their assimilation policy. This doesn’t mean anything. Look, if we send a message that Muslims are welcome to immigrate here because they’re Muslim, that defines our assimilation policy to Muslims here already. And not in a helpful way. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/150 "2015-11-17T22:26:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Soviet agents didn’t pose a risk? The Soviet Union was an existential threat to the United States. We still ask immigrants if they have ever been members of a communist party. In real terms, ISIL is no more dangerous to us than the Crips. > > Never, as far as I know. But that’s irrelevant. If by irrelevant you mean the opposite of irrelevant, then you’re 100% right. If not, 100% wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/151 "2015-11-17T22:29:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Because you always carry your passport with you when preparing to commit suicide, right? Gee, it’s almost as if ISIS _wanted_ paranoid westerners to fear and distrust refugees. > > PS: Ninja’d by 20 minutes. That’s what I get for not reading ahead. Yeah, ISIS just happened to be there when those French nationals strapped on suicide bombs and blew themselves up. Then they threw the fake passport in the mess to make us hate the Syrians and make the internet retards scream about how unfair life. But ISIS, who claimed responsibility, had nothing to do with it. Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/152 "2015-11-17T22:33:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, so we’ve established that this is not a necessary evil, but a useless one. Maybe in the future when the borders are secured we can talk about rejecting refugees. That is a ridiculous argument. Just because there’s a leak on one side of the roof doesn’t mean you don’t fix the one on the other side if you can. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/153 "2015-11-17T22:37:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > ISIS has said they are doing this, so you believe them and help them spread their lies and fear. > > You’re a fucking terrorist supporter, who blindly repeats what the terrorists want you to. Your only excuse would be that you’re gullible and stupid, so you don’t know what you’re doing. > > So you’re not a malicious ISIL supporter – you’re merely a stupid one. Listen closely you pantload. You’re the one drinking the kool-aid. It’s the _chance of a problem_ we’re unwilling to take until and unless the refugees are thoroughly vetted. Opening the door and asking to come in quickly as it’s cold out there is foolish and dangerous. Fortunately, morons like you don’t usually find their way to government positions high enough to make a difference. Just go take a shower, find a job and move out on your own. Stop bothering people in the internet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/154 "2015-11-17T22:39:21Z")
A shower and a job? Did you forget “haircut”? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/155 "2015-11-17T22:39:42Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > So you believe your opinion to be infallible? Its ad hominem nonsense. In general its better to keep danger further away, separated by oceans. A better answer would be post WW2 displaced persons camps where refugees could be screened and orderly distributed to nations that want them. Seriously? SERIOUSLY??? Don’t people ever fucking learn from the past? Our good buddy **Clothahump** would’ve been right there, cheering for the Japanese internment camps, and turning away the Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany. Disgusting. It’s not about liberal vs. conservative. It’s doing what is right as a human being. “First they came for the Jews, etc…” (I for one am proud that my state is allowing in refugees, and that the mayor of Pittsburgh has pledged to accept them as well.) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/156 "2015-11-17T22:40:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is that the alternative you’d prefer? Do you even have to ask? If you weren’t born in America, and conservative, many of the conservative posters on this board would either send you out to be slaughtered, or do it gleefully themselves. What’s the meme going around now? 750,000 refugees have settled in America since 9/11. Not one has been arrested on domestic terrorism charges. There was no opposition to the al-Qaeda fleeing refugees let into the US, but it’s not okay for Syrian refugees fleeing ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/157 "2015-11-17T22:40:59Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yeah, ISIS just happened to be there when those French nationals strapped on suicide bombs and blew themselves up. Then they threw the fake passport in the mess to make us hate the Syrians and make the internet retards scream about how unfair life. > > But ISIS, who claimed responsibility, had nothing to do with it. Makes sense. The passport was carried by the bomber. Either as ID and/or as a little extra fear inducer. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/158 "2015-11-17T22:49:42Z")
**adaher** says nuking Syria wouldn’t weaken America (except “morally”, whatever that means): > [@Will Hillary Clinton be the next U.S. President?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-hillary-clinton-be-the-next-u-s-president/733557/580): > > Nuking them wouldn’t weaken us at all except morally. You make comic book style arguments, as if our moral uprightness is our source of strength in war, even though we’ve compromised our values in every hard war we’ve ever fought and survived the experience(and lionized the leaders who led us down that path). > > A student of history would recognize these arguments as straight from the 1920s. And we all know what happened not too long after, the most savage war in human history. We are headed inexorably down that path if ISIS succeeds in establishing their caliphate. I think **adaher** might not be capable of thinking beyond the short term. Or maybe he’s just not interested in it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/159 "2015-11-17T22:52:09Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Then congratulations for doing EXACTLY what ISIL wants. They thank you for the support. A fruit basket to you as well. ISIL wants you to argue against people like adhere, as it creates tension in within their enemy, which will make them weaker, tearing apart the fabric o the country and the unity that would make it strong. :rolleyes: Send yourself another fruit basket, you fucking dolt. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798/160 "2015-11-17T22:55:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yeah, ISIS just happened to be there when those French nationals strapped on suicide bombs and blew themselves up. Then they threw the fake passport in the mess to make us hate the Syrians and make the internet retards scream about how unfair life. [Jerusalem _Post_](http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/ISIS-Threat/French-authorities-have-their-hands-tied-in-fight-against-Islamic-terrorism-433190): > [@](#): > > Muslim immigrants who grew up in France have been drawn close to Islam by Muslim Brotherhood-style groups, which are performing dawa – proselytizing of Islam – outreach carried out by institutions of social welfare services, and through Koran classes and educational propaganda. > > Within this framework, French Muslims are being taught that loyalty to Islam is much more important than loyalty to the state. “This has been going on for more than 20 years,” she said. > > More radical jihadist groups such as Islamic State and al-Qaida are able to recruit from this pool of true believers in France. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adaher-you-cowardly-shit/737798.md?page=9)