# Adam Carolla's Take on Occupy Wall Street **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784 "2011-12-02T02:34:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/61 "2011-12-04T00:05:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The problem is this growing disconnect between the concepts of “hard work” and “success”. People do not equate the two. They think the CEO or their middle manager boss apparently were born into their job … The thing is, and the one of the points the OWS folks are pissed about, is that this is increasingly true. It’s becoming more and more the case that the CEO’s are “born into their jobs”. Upward mobility has become increasingly difficult and rare. It’s very hard for someone born in poverty to escape that poverty. Education is becoming a perk for the elite. While some may not believe that upward social mobility has changed, [n fact, over the past decade, growing evidence shows pretty conclusively that social mobility has stalled in this country.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-downward-path-of-upward-mobility/2011/11/09/gIQAegpS6M_story.html) The rich get richer and the poor get nothing. Hard work does not equate to success as much anymore. This is why people are pissed off. They are not “jealous” of success. They just want to have a shot at it. Adam Carolla is one of those who through hard work _and a measure of luck_, has defied the odds and become successful. It is frequently a mark of folks like him that they want to completely ignore the fact that no, not everyone can have their success, because a _measure of luck_ was involved in his own success. He wants to think that his success required no luck at all, and was created entirely by his own sweat and smarts. So he shits on those who did not have the same luck he did. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/62 "2011-12-04T00:06:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, you don’t have any specific names nor do you have any specific trades. > > If you’ve got a cite, let’s see it. Don’t make us watch some video, especially after that chest pounding you just did about being soooooo above what you called a “Youtube thread”. > > But I’ll give you a hint. I know about this story, and there is no evidence to indict anyone for insider trading. By your standards, maybe. A lot of people other than you feel that there should be indictments. Imagine that. Just because I personally can’t build a legal case against them, doesn’t mean there’s no case to build. Just because you don’t think there is a case, doesn’t mean there is no case. ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/63 "2011-12-04T00:10:50Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > By your standards, maybe. A lot of people other than you feel that there should be indictments. Imagine that. Just because I personally can’t build a legal case against them, doesn’t mean there’s no case to build. Just because you don’t think there is a case, doesn’t mean there is no case. “Congress” is not traded on the NYSE or NASDAQ. Therefore Congress is not subject to insider trading on their activities. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/64 "2011-12-04T00:27:52Z")
> [@Linden\_Arden](#): > > “Congress” is not traded on the NYSE or NASDAQ. > > Therefore Congress is not subject to insider trading on their activities. You are missing, or obscuring, the point, just like John Mace. Cenk Uygur made a clear and OBVIOUS distinction between the kinds of people who earn their success, like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, whom no one at OWS is criticizing, and the scumbags on Wall Street using insider information, whom they ARE criticizing. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/65 "2011-12-04T00:33:29Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > By your standards, maybe. A lot of people other than you feel that there should be indictments. Imagine that. Just because I personally can’t build a legal case against them, doesn’t mean there’s no case to build. Just because you don’t think there is a case, doesn’t mean there is no case. I’m not asking to build a case. I’m asking you to cite who the traders are and what the trades were. Can you even name one name? If you can’t, then I don’t see what point you think you’re making. ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/66 "2011-12-04T00:35:27Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You are missing, or obscuring, the point, just like John Mace. Cenk Uygur made a clear and OBVIOUS distinction between the kinds of people who earn their success, like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, whom no one at OWS is criticizing, and the scumbags on Wall Street using insider information, whom they ARE criticizing. Get it? Well, I know that Wall St is rife with insider trading. I guess I missed an earlier post pertaining to this subject. If you look at my previous posts on this topic I AGREE with OWS in so far that Wall St was favorably treated with TARP despite the fact they are “losers” who deserve nothing. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/67 "2011-12-04T00:35:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Adam Carolla is one of those who through hard work _and a measure of luck_, has defied the odds and become successful. It is frequently a mark of folks like him that they want to completely ignore the fact that no, not everyone can have their success, because a _measure of luck_ was involved in his own success. He wants to think that his success required no luck at all, and was created entirely by his own sweat and smarts. So he shits on those who did not have the same luck he did. The thing is, by definition, only 1% of the population can have a chance at being the 1%. Of course it requires some luck. Adam knows this, and has said as much, but I’m not so sure the OWS folks really do. What Adam is saying is that _hard work_ coupled with the luck to have some degree of innate ability, will put most people in something like the top 20%. Yet people feel so entitled, feeling as though 20% of the population should somehow be able to be the 1%. They don’t seem to realize just how much better their lives are than those with the same starting point 100 years ago. Yes, luck is involved, hard work is involved, talent is involved, the whimsy of the marketplace is involved (Justin Beiber is rich). Get over it. Yes, there needs to be reforms. Yes, our representatives need to be held accountable for weakening the infrastructure of federal oversight. Yes, the income gap is increasing. But the anger at wall street per se is misplaced, and the utter self-entitled naivete of some of the OWS folks is astonishing, most of whom I sincerely doubt ever worked as hard as Adam did in his early career. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/68 "2011-12-04T00:41:59Z")
Hey, **Evil Captor** , let me help you out. [Link.](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-29/how-henry-paulson-gave-hedge-funds-advance-word-of-2008-fannie-mae-rescue.html). This is the only source for that story out there. Every report you see will lead back to this article. One anonymous guy giving an account of something that happened 3 years ago. But even if it’s true, here’s the relevant part you seem to be missing: > [@](#): > > The managers attending the meeting were thus given a choice opportunity to trade on that information. > > There’s no evidence that they did so after the meeting ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/69 "2011-12-04T00:58:17Z")
> [@iamnotbatman](#): > > What Adam is saying is that _hard work_ coupled with the luck to have some degree of innate ability, will put most people in something like the top 20%. Yet people feel so entitled, feeling as though 20% of the population should somehow be able to be the 1%. That’s the way it _was_. Now, hard work coupled with innate ability will get you a job at Starbucks instead of sitting on the unemployment line. In order to get into the top 20% increasingly requires some work, coupled with a bunch of Daddy’s money to buy you a good education combined with connections from Daddy’s friends. You can’t get ahead with hard work alone anymore. You can’t rise above your social situation like you could in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/70 "2011-12-04T01:09:47Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That’s the way it _was_. > > Now, hard work coupled with innate ability will get you a job at Starbucks instead of sitting on the unemployment line. > > In order to get into the top 20% increasingly requires some work, coupled with a bunch of Daddy’s money to buy you a good education combined with connections from Daddy’s friends. > > You can’t get ahead with hard work alone anymore. You can’t rise above your social situation like you could in the past. It seems like the standard of living of workers in the West are converging with those of workers in other economies like India and Brazil. Nice for them, not so pleasant for the West. This trend seems inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/71 "2011-12-04T01:17:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That’s the way it _was_. > > Now, hard work coupled with innate ability will get you a job at Starbucks instead of sitting on the unemployment line. > > In order to get into the top 20% increasingly requires some work, coupled with a bunch of Daddy’s money to buy you a good education combined with connections from Daddy’s friends. > > You can’t get ahead with hard work alone anymore. You can’t rise above your social situation like you could in the past. Honestly, what exactly are you basing your impression on? What time period are you comparing to? If you are talking about the last few years, sure, we are in a recession. The job market goes up and down. It always has. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/72 "2011-12-04T01:23:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > That’s the way it _was_. > > Now, hard work coupled with innate ability will get you a job at Starbucks instead of sitting on the unemployment line. > > In order to get into the top 20% increasingly requires some work, coupled with a bunch of Daddy’s money to buy you a good education combined with connections from Daddy’s friends. > > You can’t get ahead with hard work alone anymore. You can’t rise above your social situation like you could in the past. As the US transitions from a manufacturing economy to a knowledge based economy, the value of an education becomes greater. Who could have ever figured that out? As for connections, there has never been a time when connections didn’t give you a distinct advantage. I’d be surprised if there was any way to verify your claim that connections are more important now than they were in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/73 "2011-12-04T01:55:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As the US transitions from a manufacturing economy to a knowledge based economy, the value of an education becomes greater. Who could have ever figured that out? > > As for connections, there has never been a time when connections didn’t give you a distinct advantage. I’d be surprised if there was any way to verify your claim that connections are more important now than they were in the past. To add to that, luck and timing have always been and always will be huge factors. The idea that people like Bill Gates got where they got purely on their own hard work and shrewdness has always been a complete myth, which Bill Gates himself would almost certainly admit. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/74 "2011-12-04T02:15:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > In order to get into the top 20% increasingly requires some work, coupled with a bunch of Daddy’s money to buy you a good education combined with connections from Daddy’s friends. > > You can’t get ahead with hard work alone anymore. You can’t rise above your social situation like you could in the past. if this is true, then explain Adam Corolla’s success. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/75 "2011-12-04T02:18:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As the US transitions from a manufacturing economy to a knowledge based economy, the value of an education becomes greater. Who could have ever figured that out? And not so coincidentally, the cost of an education is becoming more and more expensive and out of reach of many from poor backgrounds. The think is, the OWS protesters do NOT want to BECOME the 1%. They are just getting sick of seeing the trajectory of the 1% getting a bigger and bigger and bigger proportion of the pie. If this trajectory continues, the 1% will own 99.99% of the wealth, and a corresponding amount of political power. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/76 "2011-12-04T03:17:20Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > For the last few decades, the 99% have been working harder, putting in more hours, educating themselves more, and being more productive than in years past, and yet seeing no real increase in their standard of living. That was always the bargain, wasn’t it; everybody works their asses off to make the pie bigger and everybody gets a bigger piece? Carolla thinks they’re acting entitled to something they didn’t earn. I think they’re tired of working to earn something and not getting it. You can work your ass off, tirelessly and ceaselessly, and that effort does not fit into some formula for the “success” you are “owed.” All that matters, from a practical perspective, is what someone is willing to pay you. There is no objective calculus that determines what some level of effort is worth, divorced from what the market will bear. If you’re worth more as a result of your effort, someone will pay you more, because if he doesn’t, someone else will. If you effort isn’t worth the extra scratch, you don’t get any. Seriously, what remedy do you envision? Should you be able to demand a raise from your employer, one that he is forced to pay, because you decide your effort is worth it? ---
**Author:** ![iamnotbatman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@iamnotbatman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamnotbatman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/77 "2011-12-04T03:23:41Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And not so coincidentally, the cost of an education is becoming more and more expensive and out of reach of many from poor backgrounds. > > The think is, the OWS protesters do NOT want to BECOME the 1%. They are just getting sick of seeing the trajectory of the 1% getting a bigger and bigger and bigger proportion of the pie. If this trajectory continues, the 1% will own 99.99% of the wealth, and a corresponding amount of political power. Income inequality. That’s not an issue with wall street. That is primarily an issue with government oversight, and to a lesser degree policies that affect wealth redistribution. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/78 "2011-12-04T03:49:50Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > You can work your ass off, tirelessly and ceaselessly, and that effort does not fit into some formula for the “success” you are “owed.” All that matters, from a practical perspective, is what someone is willing to pay you. There is no objective calculus that determines what some level of effort is worth, divorced from what the market will bear. That’s a fair point, but it raises two others: 1. What has changed in the last thirty years to make the income distribution so much more lopsided than it was before? Absent a few ups and downs, we’ve long had productivity gains and an expanding economy. Everybody worked to make those gains happen, and it used to be that everybody received a share of the gains in return. I don’t think human nature suddenly changed, so what was it? Is it related to demographics (baby boomers aging through their prime earning years and into retirement), technical innovation (the transition to a knowledge-based economy), changes in government policy (tax rates, free trade, and offshoring), or something else entirely? 2. If your worth is determined by what someone is willing to give you, then the protesters earned their childhood trophies every bit as much as CEOs earned their millions, and Carolla is still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/79 "2011-12-04T04:04:40Z")
I haven’t posted in GD in, god, maybe a year. And I don’t wanna be a troll, but the whole OWS, um, ‘thing’ is just such total bullshit. Every interview I’ve seen with any of them sounds like a line from **Team America** , _“…ah, corporations acting all, corporationy…”_. This is what they said before they left: _“Should we go score some X at a rave? Or crash my big brother’s kegger? Nah, lets go to this Occupy thing!”_ Middle-class twenty somethings enamored with neo-hippyism, and the bottom 10% bitching because, ah, they’re still the bottom 10%. All I wanna see is the scene from\*\* Soylent Green\*\*: A megaphone cop shouting **“THE SCOOPS ARE ON THEIR WAY!”** Fortunately a few more weeks of cold and snow and freezing rain will accomplish the same thing without any extra crass, shrill, scenery-chewing martyr-isms. And I was let go from my company of 20 years two years ago. I however, am looking for a job, not waiting to get my screaming, pepper-sprayed face on YouTube… ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/80 "2011-12-04T04:28:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > He wants to think that his success required no luck at all, and was created entirely by his own sweat and smarts. So he shits on those who did not have the same luck he did. Perhaps he was on a bad day or just felt like ‘telling it like it is’ to anything near him, perhaps hes sick of Dr. Drew getting all the attention while he hosts some internet sex talk no one listens too, but he really has changed. On Love Line back in the day he’d be the first one to admit he’s a schmuck that got lucky, he’d make sport of his junior college education and pathetic background every episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784.md?page=5)