# Adam Carolla's Take on Occupy Wall Street **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 2, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784 "2011-12-02T02:34:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/141 "2011-12-05T15:08:19Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > There may be an actual debate about tax policy and and influence on our elected officials, but for the majority of people actually protesting this is more about property rights in public parks and stand-offs with law enforcement: [http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-12-04/occupy-wall-street/51646606/1](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-12-04/occupy-wall-street/51646606/1) This movement is a joke to about 80% of the public. Let me fix that last sentence. It needs to end thusly: “to about 80% of the public that gets their information from Fox News.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/142 "2011-12-05T15:24:30Z")
The Occupiers still get a good amount of sympathy from the general public, but that isn’t going to last long if the trend continues of this being a protest about the protest rather than a protest about public policy and financial matters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/143 "2011-12-05T15:46:43Z")
Too subtle, perhaps, for our less sophisticated readers. Perhaps you could point to the moment when you realised that they were protesting about protest? Frankly, I’m not too sure even they realize that this is what they are doing. Perhaps if you were more specific, they could benefit from your keen insight. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/144 "2011-12-05T15:56:54Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Let me fix that last sentence. It needs to end thusly: “to about 80% of the public that gets their information from Fox News.” What is this Fox news you refer to. My link was from USA Today. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/145 "2011-12-05T23:44:45Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > The only use of the term “federal” in the thread before you referred to the federal income tax was a handful of references to federal oversight in posts you did not respond to. Which tax, exactly, do you suppose all this “tax the 1% millionaires” noise refers to? The Bush tax cuts that Evil Captor referred to, as an example–which tax code do you think this references? Do you believe this is really a movement to increase the Shelbyville county real estate tax for the top 1%? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/146 "2011-12-06T00:08:51Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > What is this Fox news you refer to. My link was from USA Today. :rolleyes: From your USA today link I don’t seem to be able to find anything like you said - “This movement is a joke to about 80% of the public.” I wonder if you’d be so kind as to point out where in your link it says this. Otherwise, I will assume that **Evil Captor** was correct that this figure is simply made up to further an argument. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/147 "2011-12-06T00:42:04Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > Pardon, I’m trying to determine if you find the mechanism is a valid way to measure the relative burdens. While I have several issues with the underlying CTJ data and how it’s used and not used, I don’t dispute that you can add rates (assuming they’re against the same totals). ## I feel dumb. I wasn’t aware there was any controversy about adding percentages of the same whole. I mean, it’s basic math. And I would say that property taxes a person pays do count as taxes paid even if they do receive housing assistance. It’s a question of how much a person pays and not of what they get for their money, after all. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Which tax, exactly, do you suppose all this “tax the 1% millionaires” noise refers to? The Bush tax cuts that Evil Captor referred to, as an example–which tax code do you think this references? Do you believe this is really a movement to increase the Shelbyville county real estate tax for the top 1%? Sheesh. There was no “tax the 1% millionaires” noise in the part of the discussion that provoked your response. Neither **Robot Arm** nor **Steve MB** before him made any such statement. And even if they had, that would do nothing to validate your assertion that the superrich can not or should not pay more in taxes because they pay such a large share of one particular tax. Don’t try to defend the indefensible. Just stop doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/148 "2011-12-06T01:20:46Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > I think he is oversimplifying the matter. The problem isn’t the fact that some people make more. The problem is the fact that these days the head honchos make so MUCH more. In the 70s if the owner made 100K and the laborer made 15K people were okay with that. Now the guy in the mail room makes 20K but the CEO makes 15 MILLION and wants to cut salary, benefits and whatever else then can to increase the bottom line, raise stock value and put even MORE money in their pockets while the guy in the mail room is still struggling day to day with no share of those profits. > > Maybe they DO feel entitled because they ARE. Working your butt off doesn’t mean you will become that 1%, no matter how hard you work and envy that Rolls. So what’s the solution? A “maximum wage”? C-level executives of companies can only make X per year? And while we’re at it we should raise the minimum wage. I know, let’s just pay everyone the same! That way everyone will be happy and no one will have anything more than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/149 "2011-12-06T01:57:33Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > I know, let’s just pay everyone the same! That way everyone will be happy and no one will have anything more than anyone else. Or let’s play “excluded middle” yay, that’s a fun game! Incidentally, the idea that the 1% can stand to be taxed a bit more does not just come from smelly unwashed hippies :[The OECD would agree](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/oecd-calls-time-on-trickle-down-theory/article2260605/) > [@](#): > > The most striking effect, however, is not just that the top 10 per cent of the income distribution has moved away from the bottom 10 per cent. It is that the top 1 per cent, and even the top 0.1 per cent, has accelerated away from everybody else > [@](#): > > All this, the OECD argues in what will be one of its more controversial recommendations, points to the top earners having a greater capacity to pay taxes. It is not that they do not at present: the top 1 per cent of earners account for about 27 per cent of all income tax. **But their taxable capacity has risen.** Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![MemoryLeak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@MemoryLeak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MemoryLeak)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/150 "2011-12-06T04:22:49Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > And I would say that property taxes a person pays do count as taxes paid even if they do receive housing assistance. It’s a question of how much a person pays and not of what they get for their money, after all. This leads to the result that people receiving assistance get “credit” for taxes paid when a third-party is bearing the burden. For example, say a Section 8 housing voucher pays about 70% of rent/utilities. Let’s say the guidlines allow $1,000/mo for rent/utilities. Call the real estate tax portion $100. If the income for the household in this example is $2,000/mo, CTJ wants to say the burden is 5%. I believe an appropriate allocation would be 1.5% (they really only pay $300/mo so the real estate tax portion is $30). These transfer payments are significant and they’re disregarded. CTJ is being incredibly misleading. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/151 "2011-12-06T05:26:51Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > This leads to the result that people receiving assistance get “credit” for taxes paid when a third-party is bearing the burden. For example, say a Section 8 housing voucher pays about 70% of rent/utilities. Let’s say the guidlines allow $1,000/mo for rent/utilities. Call the real estate tax portion $100. If the income for the household in this example is $2,000/mo, CTJ wants to say the burden is 5%. I believe an appropriate allocation would be 1.5% (they really only pay $300/mo so the real estate tax portion is $30). > > These transfer payments are significant and they’re disregarded. CTJ is being incredibly misleading. Am I misunderstanding something here? Why would a person getting a section 8 housing voucher pay property taxes? They don’t own the property, so I don’t see why they would be paying taxes on “real estate” at all. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/152 "2011-12-06T06:02:44Z")
> [@MemoryLeak](#): > > These transfer payments are significant and they’re disregarded. CTJ is being incredibly misleading. My first instinct is to respond that investors and executives of major US corporations would earn a lot less per year without publicly funded roads to transport their employees and goods over. What each gets from government is a different question from what each pays for it. But perhaps things are more complicated than that. Let me think it over. ## Assuming you convince me, how large of a discrepancy are we talking here? You’d need a lot of examples like that to build up to “being incredibly misleading”. Particularly when CTJ’s point is that the people at the high end don’t pay much more than the people in the middle (who aren’t getting direct transfers). > [@brickbacon](#): > > Am I misunderstanding something here? Why would a person getting a section 8 housing voucher pay property taxes? They don’t own the property, so I don’t see why they would be paying taxes on “real estate” at all. The property taxes are included in their rent. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/153 "2011-12-06T07:46:49Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I don’t believe that Adam’s blue collar sensibilities would make him a proponent of over-privileged Ivy League educated corporate executives coming up with more and more elaborate accounting tricks to pay themselves more money. I think you misunderstand the nature of people like Adam Corolla. He doesn’t have any ‘blue collar’ sensibilities. He has a ‘blue collar’ background, yes, but they are two different things. In actual fact he is running as far away as he can get from his blue collar heritage and is well past divorcing himself from what he perceives as the lower-class aspirations that he was brought up with (Yes, I read his stupid book). And that’s fine. At the end of the day it’s just a comedian telling us what he thinks. Why do you think he knows more than you do? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/154 "2011-12-06T14:47:04Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > The property taxes are included in their rent. In what sense? Yes, I understand that they are (hopefully) indirectly paying taxes and mortgage, etc., but in what sense are they included? I have a rental property, and if for some reason I don’t get enough rent to cover my mortgage and property taxes, I pay the excess. I don’t understand why it would make sense to pretend the renter is paying it. Is that what the CTJ is doing, because I don’t see where they outlined that on the link provided. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/155 "2011-12-06T17:31:34Z")
That was stupid. We live in a 2 tier system, the legal system and economic system does not work the same for the bottom 99% the way it does for the top 1%. Violations of park regulations are met with police abuse, violations of financial laws are met with nothing. I remember seeing a sign that said something like ‘if financial laws were upheld as strictly as park regulations we wouldn’t be in this mess’ coming from an OWS protester, which sums things up nicely. Financial abuses are met with bailouts to keep them solvent (bailouts that were supposed to help us by cleaning toxic assets and increasing lending, but which were just used to keep their balance sheets positive), then the ending joblessness and homelessness people down the line feel are basically just ignored. It was a stupid rant by a nearly 50 year old mediocre comedian complaining about kids half his age. He has no idea what people are even protesting. If he were a good comedian like Patton Oswalt I think I’d care what he thought, but Carolla is such a mediocre douche bag in general that it isn’t a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/156 "2011-12-06T17:40:24Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > That was stupid. We live in a 2 tier system, the legal system and economic system does not work the same for the bottom 99% the way it does for the top 1%. Violations of park regulations are met with police abuse, violations of financial laws are met with nothing. Tell that to Bernie Madoff, Martha Stewart and [these guys:](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28244805/top-10-ceos-in-prison-whyd-they-do-it/) > [@](#): > > Jeff Skilling, former CEO of Enron > Serving 24 years for fraud, insider trading, and other crimes related to the collapse of Enron > > Bernie Ebbers, former CEO of WorldCom > Serving 25 years for accounting fraud that cost investors over $100 billion > > Dennis Kozlowski, former CEO of Tyco Serving 8 to 25 years for stealing $134 million from Tyco > > John Rigas, former CEO of Adelphia Communications Serving 25 years for bank, wire, and securities fraud related to the demise of Adelphia > > Sanjay Kumar, former CEO of Computer Associates Serving 12 years for obstruction of justice and securities fraud > > Walter Forbes, former CEO of Cendant Serving 12 years for fraud > > Richard Scrushy, former CEO of HealthSouth Serving 7 years for bribery and mail fraud > > Joseph Nacchio, former CEO of Qwest Communications > Serving 6 years for insider trading > > Sam Waksal, former CEO of ImClone Served 7 years for securities fraud (released last year) > > Martin Grass, former CEO of Rite Aid Served 6 years for fraud and obstruction (just released this year) That’s only the top 10. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/157 "2011-12-06T18:45:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Tell that to Bernie Madoff, Martha Stewart and [these guys:](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28244805/top-10-ceos-in-prison-whyd-they-do-it/) > > That’s only the top 10. :rolleyes: If they do even a fourth of that time I’ll be surprised as hell. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/158 "2011-12-06T19:48:05Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > In what sense? Yes, I understand that they are (hopefully) indirectly paying taxes and mortgage, etc., but in what sense are they included? I have a rental property, and if for some reason I don’t get enough rent to cover my mortgage and property taxes, I pay the excess. I don’t understand why it would make sense to pretend the renter is paying it. Is that what the CTJ is doing, because I don’t see where they outlined that on the link provided. It’s in the fourth bullet starting at the bottom of the first page and carrying over. The thinking is that the cost of the tax should be figured into the rent. So too the unavoidable uncertainty of the rent not being paid. I’m surprised you have never heard of this common practice. Michigan Department of Tresury: “Homeowners pay property taxes directly and renters pay them indirectly with their rent.” [http://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,1607,7-238-43535\_43538---,00.html](http://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,1607,7-238-43535_43538---,00.html) Maryland State Department of Assessments & Taxation: “The concept rests on the reasoning that renters indirectly pay property taxes as part of their rent and thus should have some protection, as do homeowners.” [http://www.dat.state.md.us/sdatweb/rtc.html](http://www.dat.state.md.us/sdatweb/rtc.html) ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/159 "2011-12-06T20:07:50Z")
I think it’s worth mentioning that in the Fox Business criticism of The Muppets, Eric Bolling used the [exact same anecdote](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl6ekkvWnOE&feature=player_detailpage#t=145s) that Carolla used in his rant. It’s a great talking point meme: you can be pretty sure that it’s utter BS, but there’s no way to disprove it. Aside from street urchins marveling when Daddy Warbucks’ rides into town in his Duesenberg, who the hell takes enough notice of a car driving by to use it as an opportunity to instill life lessons. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784/160 "2011-12-06T20:16:27Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > :rolleyes: If they do even a fourth of that time I’ll be surprised as hell. :rolleyes: What a pathetic debate argument that is. Someone claims that the hot shots never get prosecuted, I give LOTS of evidence that they do, and that’s your contribution to the discussion? Not going to waste my time debating with you on the subject any further. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adam-carollas-take-on-occupy-wall-street/604784.md?page=9)