# Add my name to the FUCK YOU MANHATTAN petition **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 9, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744 "2003-06-09T23:46:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/201 "2003-06-11T20:53:42Z")
**KGS** You’re mad, past the edge, get help NOW! You make no sense. You have flipped out. There, does that explain things to you, in one syllable? Manic trips are nothing to trifle with, my mom had those. Get help before you do things that you will regret the rest of your life. Seriously, check yourself into the hospital, get your meds adjusted, get therapy for the issues that have come up, and then try to cope with the outside world again. After you have recieved medical help, and as you continue taking your meds and going to therapy. Ask to be taught the symptoms of an impending manic episode, so you can get help quicker. Mom learned how to do that finally, and she’s not had a full blown manic episode in over a decade! Get well soon. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/202 "2003-06-11T21:13:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by KGS \* > \*\* What difference does it make, if I have a vision that directs me to save someone’s life, or make a bet on a hockey game (which in fact I was going to do, as certain as I was, but time ran out before I could get that ball rolling. A lucky thing that was, considering what happened.)_\* Wait a minute. Everything else is predestined but it was just luck that you ‘couldn’t’ bet on the game? Uh-uh. It was my intervention and the time you took to respond to it that prevented you from betting on the hockey game. You realize what that means, of course. What that means is that from your reference frame **I am God**. Don’t worry, you’ll find me to be a mostly kind and easy to please God – no jumping into volcanos or anything like that. Just build a small altar to me, tithe, and speak highly of me if you meet Tyra Banks (you won’t). ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/203 "2003-06-11T21:16:35Z")
**KGS** You’re mad, past the edge, get help NOW! You make no sense. You have flipped out. There, does that explain things to you, in one syllable? Manic trips are nothing to trifle with, my mom had those. Get help before you do things that you will regret the rest of your life. Seriously, check yourself into the hospital, get your meds adjusted, get therapy for the issues that have come up, and then try to cope with the outside world again. After you have recieved medical help, and as you continue taking your meds and going to therapy. Ask to be taught the symptoms of an impending manic episode, so you can get help quicker. Mom learned how to do that finally, and she’s not had a full blown manic episode in over a decade! Get well soon. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/204 "2003-06-11T21:35:23Z")
**Jonathan Chance** , consider yourself in the loonie bin, together with **KGS**. Not only was _Counterparts_ one of the most overwhelming follow-up albums ever after the utterly mediocre _Roll the Bones_ (although I’ll admit to the faults with that album being mostly production and mixing ones), it is easily in my top 3 of favourite Rush Albums. It incorporated, in true Rush style, the going music influences at the time (in this case, grunge), was produded so mindblowingly accurate and sharp that tears rolled out of my speakers when I first put it on, and contains some of the best Rush compositions of the past 2 decades. Admittedly, _Cold Fire_ is just another rock song, which I just happen to like. But calling _Leave that thing alone_ a sub-par instrumental is just madness. _Test for Echo_ holds up better as an album than does _Counterparts_? In the loonie bin, perhaps. Counterparts remains one of my most played CD’s, whereas TfE never gets a lot of airplay in my CD player. But perhaps this is a matter of taste, after all. For instance, I was also smitten with _Vapor Trails_, and love the “hard” road Rush seems to have chosen lately. I know that’s hardly a universal opinion. But still… TfE is nowhere NEAR Counterparts, and never will be. All right, hijack over. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Aslan\_of\_Narnia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aslan_of_Narnia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/205 "2003-06-11T23:22:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Hi **Aslan2**. > And sad to say, once school is finished, you do not get extra time in the summer (unless you live in one of those cool countries with the concept of “holiday month”). And most parents actually have less time, as their children are no longer in school full time. > > As you know, young posters are not the problem- dimwitted attention whores are the problem (the clever ones tend not to cause as many problems). > > Do you agree? \*\* I don’t mean that people in jobs have two month vacation times exactly like ours, but more that people would be more inclined to take vacation time or their extra days off. And at work, people usuallly have internet connections, too. Trolling is a result of likely a result of being bored, something that’s not different with all ages. ---
**Author:** ![Sophie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Sophie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophie)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/206 "2003-06-12T00:23:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KGS \* > **And since this is my parting shot, I’ll say what I wanted to say earlier, but ran out of time: manhattan, you are a disgrace to the city borough that shares your nickname. I insist (as a fellow human being, though I barely consider you one now, especially after you pretended to apologize AND I FUCKNIG FELL FOR IT YOU BITCH) that you change it that does not desparage the great city of NYC. I have _always_ loved New York, and I say that as a lifelong Californian / Los Angeleno / fan of underdog teams. I cried on9/11, just like everyone else, NOT only for the people who died, or for the buildings that were ruined, but for the city itself that was wounded that day. I cannot wait until they rebuild the WTC (the designs look GREAT btw) so that NYC can truly heal and move on.** Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/207 "2003-06-12T02:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\ ***Jonathan Chance** , consider yourself in the loonie bin, together with **KGS**. > > Not only was _Counterparts_ one of the most overwhelming follow-up albums ever after the utterly mediocre _Roll the Bones_ (although I’ll admit to the faults with that album being mostly production and mixing ones), it is easily in my top 3 of favourite Rush Albums. It incorporated, in true Rush style, the going music influences at the time (in this case, grunge), was produded so mindblowingly accurate and sharp that tears rolled out of my speakers when I first put it on, and contains some of the best Rush compositions of the past 2 decades. Admittedly, _Cold Fire_ is just another rock song, which I just happen to like. But calling _Leave that thing alone_ a sub-par instrumental is just madness. > > _Test for Echo_ holds up better as an album than does _Counterparts_? In the loonie bin, perhaps. Counterparts remains one of my most played CD’s, whereas TfE never gets a lot of airplay in my CD player. But perhaps this is a matter of taste, after all. For instance, I was also smitten with _Vapor Trails_, and love the “hard” road Rush seems to have chosen lately. I know that’s hardly a universal opinion. But still… TfE is nowhere NEAR Counterparts, and never will be. > > All right, hijack over. 🙂 \*\* Sadly, no. We’re not done yet you Dutch poseur! While I realize you and I tend to differ over the harder stuff I find _Counterparts_ to be uneven at best. The tightness of the melodic line is often missing. As I’ve considered that one of their strengths over the years that’s a great lack. A few cuts are worthy (Cut to the Chase, Between Sun and Moon, Animate) with solid choruses and melodic hooks that capture the imagination I find most of it to be unfocused and lacking in direction. Even the heavier riffs (such as the main lead in Stick it Out) are more repetitive than interesting (hell, even Alex called that one ‘ugly’). Clearly, they needed another set of ears to give them some perspective. Test for Echo, while again uneven, shows more continuity of songwriting. While I think the title track is pretentious as all hell (something they do fairly well at times) many of the other songs (Driven, Totem, Resist) bring them back to what they’d perfected: the straightforward lyrical concept of statement of belief. Not quite anthems (not mindless enough by half) but statements of position that bring the listener along. And anyone who says ‘Leave That Thing Alone’ is better than ‘Limbo’, ‘Where’s My Thing’, or ‘La Villa Strangiato’ jest ain’t quite right. Now admit it, folks! This is **way** more interesting than the rest of the thread, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/208 "2003-06-12T02:30:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\* > This has got to be an act. No sane, rational person thinks like this. Do they? \*\* What makes you think he’s a sane, rational person? ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/209 "2003-06-12T02:34:37Z")
**KGS** , in case you missed it or glossed over it, please go back and re-read **Zabali\_Clawbane** ’s helpful post, conveniently located at the very top of this page. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/210 "2003-06-12T02:43:38Z")
Don’t let the bastards get you down, KGS! The pearl is in the river. Repeat. The pearl is in the river. The fat man walks in the moonlight. The fat man walks in the moonlight. I’ll meet you beneath the train tressel at midnight – don’t forget to gouge out your neural transmitter. I’ll bring the tinfoil, you bring the marshmallows and vaseline. If you see a dog smoking a cigar when you get ther … RUN!! ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/211 "2003-06-12T02:48:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\* > Test for Echo, while again uneven, shows more continuity of songwriting. While I think the title track is pretentious as all hell (something they do fairly well at times) many of the other songs (Driven, Totem, Resist) bring them back to what they’d perfected: the straightforward lyrical concept of statement of belief. Not quite anthems (not mindless enough by half) but statements of position that bring the listener along. > \*\* Can we hijack a thread if a Mod is responsible? Will Coldfire relocate us to Cafe Society? Or will Manhattan just ban us all, creating another series of “Burn Manhattan” threads that degenerate into Rush threads… That said… Test for Echo was a good album in its day, but I don’t think it holds up quite as well. The whole “Da Intarnet is shure nifty, eh!” feel to a few of the songs dates them. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/212 "2003-06-12T05:11:41Z")
You guys are so cute. First you try and dig up previous SDMB posts of mine, and then, finding no ammo there, start searching through my own personal website, as if _anything_ there matters a whit. In the process, this thread has suddenly shifted into Cafe Society territory. So…weve gone from GQ to BBQ to GD to MPSIMS to CS. Quick! Somebody write a letter to Cecil asking, “Is the Matrix real, or fiction?” so we can comment on his column and cover ALL the forums!!! Plus, I pity the poor fool who sees the title of this thread and thinks it’s yet another lame rant about manny, with no possible conception of what he’s about to step into. And heck, I’m not even pissed at manny anymore, after this evening’s enjoyment. What’s the point? So, as a gift to all you kiddies, here’s something for you to chew on. What followed is the ORIGINAL TEXT of my original “vision” (for lack of a better word), with only real names and irrelevant parts edited out: > [@](#): > > Matrix’ed a bit during TAR, Yellow & Black patterns were “clean” and mostly Blue too, and Rev\*\*\*\* worked quite nicely (well, except for a couple times, but it wasn’t as bad as before.) Then the Red came out and POUNCED on me! Thought it was another demon (a RED demon? That’d be a new one…) > Other connections: The Great White Fire & Challenger Disasters, though I don’t have the connection yet. Almost definitely the cinderella wins by Anaheim Angels AND the Ducks. (Yes, you heard it hear first, even though the Devils are up 3-2.) Maybe even \*\*\*\*\*'s suicide, but the non-suicide death of that kid didn’t add much support to that. Iraq, Peterson, Samantha Smart? Naah, just plain TV entertainment. Definitely not 9/11, that was WWTBAM/vision of NYC related. Very PURPLE baseline, not Yellow/Gold like this one. > Considering the “geodesic dome” nature of the “Phenom”, could be a single strong gold rhythm leading to each one of those events – or Gold for Anaheim, Black for GW/Challenger. Hmm, that DOES make sense… > Green? Lotta that too. Definitely “Matrix Reloaded” related. God, this is complex. We’ll see what happens in November… Have fun with it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/213 "2003-06-12T05:15:32Z")
Oh, and to whoever suggested that I change the name of “Matrix Theory” to something else, you are right, that particular word has become problematic. Clearly, people see the word “Matrix” and assume they know exactly what it refers to, and never bother to look at any words that follow it. Problem is, the only other term that makes sense would be “Game Theory”, which is already taken. DAMN YOU JOHN NASH!!! BTW, I’m not fielding any questions because that is what the GD thread was for, which was moved to MPSIMS and then locked. So…you’re all on your own here. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/214 "2003-06-12T05:26:51Z")
It doesn’t sound like Nash’s Game Theory. It sounds closer to “The Matrix”. Maybe you should keep the name as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/215 "2003-06-12T06:32:49Z")
Or maybe you could just shut up about your interesting theory so people don’t think you’re a whack job. Just a thought. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Space\_Vampire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Space\_Vampire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Space_Vampire)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/216 "2003-06-12T07:54:59Z")
OH NO! What’s going to happen in November? Ohmigodohmigod… So in the note you wrote to yourself you explicitly link your vision to The Matrix Reloaded. That goes a long way towards convincing me that you aren’t obsessed with the juvenile philosophy of a lame movie. This is ceasing to be funny, though. You are not mentally well, I hope you’ll do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/217 "2003-06-12T14:24:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KGS \* > Yeah, my brother did call to tell me the thread had been closed, and you know what, I’m relieved. I was getting tired of defending myself from people who obviously did NOT get the point, although debates with a few people (esp. **Joe Random** ) were actually leading somewhere. funny thing is, I didn’t see anywhere that I attacked a moderator in that thread. Yes, I referred to manny and pointed to this Pit but…am I missing a rule here? From the OP of the thread closed by **Cajun Man** : > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KGS \* > INSTEAD, manhattan (a problem child of a mod if ever there was one, and I speak from FACT and experience, I remember full well when he had to take a break from mod duties because he was, well, losing his grip) chose to lock the thread, and took a few totally misguided potshots at me and my beliefs, which I still believe were completely uncalled for (to say the least!) Naturally, I was pissed, and felt driven to open a BBQ PIt Thread (my SECOND big mistake): > > _\_ > > …in which manhattan, and several other wolves and psychic vampires, leapt into the fray and, well, tore KGS to shreds. _(My emphasis)_… **Cajun Man’s** response was: > [@](#): > > **KGS** , your OP is a rant about the moderation of this board. Such threads belong in The BBQ Pit. You presently have an active thread on this very subject in The Pit. Do not post complaints regarding the administration of this board in any forum other than The Pit. > > This thread is closed. It seems pretty clear to me why the thread was closed. Perhaps if you refrained from calling a moderator a wolf or a psychic vampire, that thread might still be open. Perhaps it would still be open in GD if you had offered anything of substance to debate rather than describing anybody who called your theory into question wolves, or claiming that because your theory has been “a work in progress” for 15+ years you shouldn’t be expected to answer anybody’s questions coherently. Plenty of people have asked you polite questions about your theory in this thread and elsewhere, but you have ignored their questions altogether. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/218 "2003-06-12T14:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\***KGS > Several Related Questions** > > I assume that you used some sort of inference to arrive at the idea. > > What are the initial phenomena that lead you to the conclusion that the Matrix existed instead of not existing? > > What is the distinction between the Matrix existing and not existing? > > Why do you think that the Matrix thingy exists? > > How can you tell that it exists? > > What do you use to determine its properties? > \*\* 😕 ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/219 "2003-06-12T16:17:26Z")
Hmm, not as many replies as I expected. Like I said earlier, I’m fielding no questions on “Matrix Theory” itself, since I’ve already tried once in GD/MPSIMS and it was locked, and I see no point in broaching the subject there again. However, I _will_ answer these: **everton** : Holy shit, I must be blind. I can’t see how “psychic vampires and wolves” is worth a locking, but calling manny “a problem child of a mod” _definitely_ is, and I totally missed it. (So did Czarcasm, apparently, when he moved the thread.) **I Love Me** : I agree…“game theory” and “The Game” (i.e. this universe we all live in and the lives we live in it) aren’t related at all. I definitely see parallels between the “Santized Hollywood Version” of Nash’s life and my own, as certain friends of mine will attest to. (Hell, maybe in 30 years, I’ll be accepting a Nobel Prize for “Matrix Theory”? Hey, it COULD happen…) I understand now, thanks. **Space Vampire** : Dude, this one’s easy. Think about it a bit. (It’s real-world related, in case you were wondering.) AWESOME nick, btw. 😉 **SimonX** : Kindly refer to the 2nd sentence of this post, and pipe down. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744/220 "2003-06-12T16:25:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KGS \* > \*\ ***SimonX** : Kindly refer to the 2nd sentence of this post, and pipe down. \*\* I think you need to put the crack pipe down, son. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/add-my-name-to-the-fuck-you-manhattan-petition/180744.md?page=12)