# Addiction without knowing source--possible?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 11, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789 "2009-01-11T10:24:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Deereman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deereman)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/1 "2009-01-11T10:24:36Z")
I just had a thought today, and a question, but it requires explanation.
There are many drugs out there that are physically and/or mentally addictive. Random examples that come to mind: Morphine or crack, cocaine, etc. Anything would work, of course.
At least in the Hollywood version of things, someone becomes addicted to these drugs, and will do ANYTHING to get that “next hit”. And in real life, that does seem to hold true from what I’ve heard. I guess I’m on shaky ground in that assumption.
What if someone was given a potentially addictive drug without their knowledge (though I can’t think of a subtle way to do so). There would still be the physical effects, of course…
Would that person still have that addictive urge for “just one more hit” when they have absolutely no idea they are on some mind/body chemistry altering drug? Would there be some unknown craving?
I wonder if this has ever been studied, but it probably goes against any and all types of ethics rules!
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### Author:  [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/2 "2009-01-11T10:41:21Z")
Yes, it’s entirely possible: there are plenty of prescription medications that are highly addictive - benzodiazepines are a common one - and one can get hooked on them entirely unknowingly. Probably many thousands of people have, especially in the early days of their usage when the dangers were less well and they were handed out like lollies. Many people took them for anxiety, only to find that when they attempted to stop they experienced withdrawal symptoms, which were mistaken for the anxiety simply manifesting itself again: funnily enough, the symptoms disappeared when the patient began taking their benzos again. It causes a lot of problems when the dosage is stopped or reduced, and the withdrawal symptoms kick in: one can experience extremely unpleasant symptoms without knowing the cause, at least until the addiction is identified. The psychological craving for a particular substance comes from knowing what it is that will alleviate the physical withdrawal symptoms.
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/3 "2009-01-11T10:53:43Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#):
>
> one can experience extremely unpleasant symptoms without knowing the cause, at least until the addiction is identified.
Could there be more to this than just that? When I first started smoking, aged 16, I smoked maybe five a day and did not consider myself addicted. I went on vacation with my family and started experiencing appalling withdrawal symptoms that I didn’t identify - until I started dreaming about cigarettes every night. It was the dreams that made me go out and surreptitiously buy a pack of Marlboro, after which my symptoms stopped.
Similarly, a friend who used to do a lot of cocaine, but doesn’t do it now, and doesn’t consider herself addicted, says she has dreams where she is taking cocaine on a very regular basis.
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### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/4 "2009-01-11T11:03:35Z")
I think fast food chains use sugar a lot to virtually get kids addicted to their food. Rarely do either the children or the parents realize this.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/5 "2009-01-11T11:14:26Z")
> [@guizot](#):
>
> I think fast food chains use sugar a lot to virtually get kids addicted to their food. Rarely do either the children or the parents realize this.
Cite? How is sugar addictive, given that you need it to live?
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### Author:  [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/6 "2009-01-11T11:42:16Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> Cite? How is sugar addictive, given that you need it to live?
It’s not a true addiction. I brought it up only because the OP is asking about not knowing the source. Young children crave sugar naturally, precisely because you do need it to live. But some have said that they put too much of it in foods that is excessive for a child’s nutritional needs. So parents wonder why their children beg them for McDonald’s food.
These people:
Enola Aird, Director, The Motherhood Project, Institute for American Values
Monika Arora, Programme Director, HRIDAY-SHAN, India
The Honorable Danielle Auroi, Member, European Parliament, France
Belen Balanya, co-author, Europe, Inc.: Regional and Global Restructuring and the Rise of Corporate Power
Peter Barnes, Co-founder, Working Assets; author, Who Owns the Sky?
Medea Benjamin, Founding Director, Global Exchange
Stephen Bezruchka MD, MPH, Senior Lecturer, Department of Health Services, School of Public Health and Community Medicine, University of Washington
Louis Borgenicht, MD, Member, Board of Directors, Physicians for Social Responsibility
Brita Butler-Wall, PhD, Executive Director, Citizens’ Campaign for Commercial-Free Schools
Nancy Carlsson-Paige, EdD, Professor of Child Development, Lesley University
Vittorio Carreri, Presidente, Giunta esecutiva, SItI; Head of the Sanitary Prevention Unit of Lombardy Region.
Joan Claybrook, President, Public Citizen
The Honorable Ian Cohen, MLC, New South Wales Parliament, Australia
Ronnie Cummins, National Director, Organic Consumers Association
Donald R. Davis, PhD, Research Associate in Nutrition, Biochemical Institute, University of Texas
Erica Frank, MD, MPH, Vice Chair and Associate Professor; Director, Preventive Medicine Residency Program, Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, Emory University School of Medicine
Gary Goldbaum, MD, MPH, Associate Professor of Epidemiology, University of Washington
Joan Gussow, EdD, M. S. Rose Professor Emeritus, Nutrition and Education, Teachers College, Columbia University
Andy Harris, MD, Board of Directors, Physicians For Social Responsibility
Paul Hawken, Natural Capital Institute
Michael F. Jacobson, PhD, Executive Director, Center for Science in the Public Interest
David L. Katz, MD, MPH, FACPM, Associate Clinical Professor, Yale School of Medicine
Joe Kelly, Executive Director, Dads and Daughters; and Publisher, Daughters Newsletter: For Parents of Girls
Michael Kieschnick, President, Working Assets
Jean Kilbourne, Author, Can’t Buy Me Love: How Advertising Changes the Way We Think And Feel
Ronald M. Krauss, MD, Senior Scientist, Life Sciences Division, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory; Adjunct Professor, Department of Nutritional Sciences, University of California, Berkeley
Velma LaPoint, PhD, Associate Professor of Human Development, Howard University
Pieta-Rae Laut, Executive Director, Public Health Association of Austrailia
Diane Levin, PhD, Professor of Education, Wheelock College
Jane Levine, EdD, Founder, Kids Can Make A Difference
Lida Lhotska, PhD, Regional Coordinator for Europe, International Baby Food Action Network
Susan Linn, EdD, Associate Director, Media Center of the Judge Baker Children’s Center; Instructor in Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School
Alison Linnecar, International Coordinator, Geneva Infant Feeding Association
Alan H. Lockwood, MD, Professor of Neurology and Nuclear Medicine, University at Buffalo; Past-President and Chairman, Environment and Health Committee, Physicians for Social Responsibility
Ben Manski, Co-Chair, Green Party of the United States
Mohamed Marwoun, MS, Specialist, Community Medicine, Ministry of Public Health, Saudi Arabia
Bob McCannon, Executive Director, New Mexico Media Literacy Project
Robert McChesney, PhD, Research Professor, Institute of Communications Research, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign; author, Rich Media, Poor Democracy
Mary Anne Mercer, DrPH, Senior Lecturer, University of Washington School of Public Health and Community Medicine
Jim Metrock, President, Obligation, Inc.
Mark Crispin Miller, PhD, Professor of Media Ecology, New York University
Diane M. Morrison, PhD, Research Professor & Associate Dean for Research, University of Washington School of Social Work
Keven Mosley-Koehler, MS, MPH, Grant Project Manager, Group Health Community Foundation
Robert K. Musil, PhD, MPH, Executive Director and CEO, Physicians for Social Responsibility
Peggy O’Mara, Editor and Publisher, Mothering Magazine
Sheldon Rampton, Editor, PR Watch
Mike Rayner, DPhil, Director, British Heart Foundation Health Promotion Research Group
John Rensenbrink, US Representative, Global Green Network
The Honorable Lee Rhiannon, MLC, New South Wales Parliament, Australia
Gary Ruskin, Executive Director, Commercial Alert
Ted Schettler, MD, MPH, Science Director, Science and Environmental Health Network
Juliet Schor, Professor of Sociology, Boston College; author, The Overspent American and The Overworked American
John Stauber, Executive Director, Center for Media & Democracy; co-author, Trust Us, We’re Experts and Toxic Sludge is Good for You
Vic Strasburger, MD, Professor of Pediatrics, Univ. of New Mexico School of Medicine; author, Children, Adolescents, and the Media
Karen Valenzuela, MA, MPA, Washington State Public Health Association
Susan Villani, MD, Medical Director, Schools Programs, Kennedy Krieger Institute; Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine
Robert Weissman, co-author, Corporate Predators; Co-director, Essential Action
The Honorable Matti Wuori, Member, European Parliament, Finland
…wrote a letter protesting McDonald’s involvement in World Children’s Day about six years ago, because of added-sugar (and high fat) in McDonalds food.
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### Author:  [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/7 "2009-01-11T11:46:34Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> Cite? How is sugar addictive, given that you need it to live?
[Wiki on sugar addiction.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction)I have certainly seen the signs of sugar addiction in myself.
**Scissorjack** makes a good point: there have been hundreds of thousands of cases where the OP’s experiment has been done. When I studied psychology, early 90’s, my final paper was part of a larger academic health study into the number of women aged 55-70 who were addicted to benzodiazepines: valium, Seresta, Diazepam, Temazepam, all the “Mothers Little Helpers” the Rollign stones sang about.
No less then 40 percent of the general population of women in that age group had been addicted to benzodiazepines at a particular point, typically taken them for years and years. The modern prescribed usage is two weeks maximum, because, after that, the risk of addiction outweighs the ever diminishing effects.
Two weeks maximum; \*and half the female population had taken them for “nerves” for decades. \*So, we have a drug taken by respectable old ladies who would never consider their medicine a drug and who would never think of their complaints as withdrawal symptoms.
An example. Growing up in the sixties, my FIL had a bad relationship with his mother, who he described as emotionally distant, nervous, and unfocused. They met again a couple years ago and now go along splendidly. It was quite something for him to realise a big part of the problem was that his mother was, to all effects and purposes, stoned out of her mind for over two decades, on doctors orders.
There is nothing new under the sun. Addictions fuelled bu proscribing docters and eager of insecure patients have existed throughout history. In the 1900’s, upper class women were addicted to [laudanum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudanum) on a large scale in much the same pattern.
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### Author:  [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/8 "2009-01-11T11:50:53Z")
I am addicted to at least one of my prescription meds, and didn’t know it until college. I used to put my prescription meds in my checked bag when I travelled (stupid, I know; I don’t do it any more) until my bag got lost once on an international flight and I went through serious withdrawal until I got my bag 24 hours later. It took some trial and error to find out which one I was addicted to. Still haven’t been able to wean myself off of it, though there are better meds out there for that particular condition.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/9 "2009-01-11T14:35:33Z")
After WWII, there were thousands, maybe tens of thousands of veterans addicted to morphine from their medical treatments. I think the dangers were not quite realized. I don’t see what purpose was served in sending them to prison, but that’s what happened.
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### Author:  [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/10 "2009-01-11T15:01:31Z")
To make the scenario in the OP somewhat more concrete, suppose that someone secretly administered morphine to me while I slept. Suppose that they timed it so that the dose wore off before I awoke.
Maybe the morphine would influence my dreams, so I might notice that _something_ weird is going on after several nights of strange sleep. But let’s stipulate that I never suspect that a drug has anything to do with it.
Now suppose that, after several weeks of this, the morphine is no longer administered. I assume that I would start to experience some of the awful symptoms of withdrawal. But I take the question in the OP to be: Would these symptoms ever feel subjectively like _cravings_ of any kind? Or would they just feel like being sick or something?
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### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/11 "2009-01-11T15:47:18Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> Cite? How is sugar addictive, given that you need it to live?
You not not need _sugar_ to live, there is a process in your body that the it breaks down carbs into glucose that is needed to live, but you dont need to do anything about it.
Your body is actually better off breaking down a potato instead of horking down an equivalent amount of dixie crystals [a common brand of white granulated sugar] because you happen to actually _need_ the components of the potato [minerals, aminos, vitamins, proteins, fats]
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### Author:  [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/12 "2009-01-11T16:01:16Z")
I suggest a lot of people are addicted to coffee without knowing it … even though they may joke about it.
I’ve come across more than one who didn’t realize the blistering headache they had that hadn’t been touched by aspirin or other common pain relievers could be stopped in minutes by a cup of coffee.
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### Author:  [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/13 "2009-01-11T17:08:44Z")
> [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](#):
>
> Now suppose that, after several weeks of this, the morphine is no longer administered. I assume that I would start to experience some of the awful symptoms of withdrawal. But I take the question in the OP to be: Would these symptoms ever feel subjectively like _cravings_ of any kind? Or would they just feel like being sick or something?
I think you would just feel really sick–sweating, puking, etc. IANAD, but I have gone through (prescription medication) withdrawal.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/14 "2009-01-11T18:07:36Z")
> [@Turble](#):
>
> I suggest a lot of people are addicted to coffee without knowing it … even though they may joke about it.
>
> I’ve come across more than one who didn’t realize the blistering headache they had that hadn’t been touched by aspirin or other common pain relievers could be stopped in minutes by a cup of coffee.
You’ll note that several over-the-county pain relievers now include caffeine as an ingredient for this sole reason.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/15 "2009-01-11T18:16:38Z")
> [@Mr.Slant](#):
>
> You’ll note that several over-the-county pain relievers now include caffeine as an ingredient for this sole reason.
The reason OTC pain relievers increase caffeine is because it constricts blood vessels and can potentiate other painkillers. No doubt Excedrin is ideally suited for a caffeine-withdrawal headache, but the caffeine helps relieve headache pain even for people who aren’t experiencing caffeine withdrawals.
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### Author:  [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/16 "2009-01-11T18:22:56Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> Cite? How is sugar addictive, given that you need it to live?
You need food to live, but food addiction is a terrible, terrible disease, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
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### Author:  [@KnitWit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KnitWit)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/17 "2009-01-11T18:58:10Z")
Part of the difficulty in answering this question is that addiction is very poorly defined. If you consider it a social construct, which it often is, then in some cases person can’t really be addicted to something they don’t identify. People may have withdrawal symptoms, even severe ones, but not really be identified as an “addict.”
Example: I once took Effexor for depression. If I was even a couple of hours late with a dose I would start getting dizzy, throwing up, shaking, and otherwise becoming non-functional. However, it took me quite some time to link these ill spells to the medication. I’d just think to myself, “Wow, I had a nasty stomach bug yesterday. Must have been food poisoning, weird how it disappeared so quickly.” When I tried to get off the stuff entirely (didn’t work well for me anyway) it was torture. It took two weeks for me to feel normal again.
Since my “drug problem” was an anti-depressant and we don’t socially identify people on such medication as “addicts” no one probably would have said, “you’re addicted to medication.” The turn of phrase is more like, “You’ll have some re-bound symptoms and need to taper off this medication slowly.”
If the drug I had been taking was a benzo, morphine, what-have-you, then I would have been called an addict and people would have suggested addiction treatment.
George Vaillant did experiments in which he intended to prove that alcoholics could not control their drinking once they started. He ended up proving the opposite…that problem drinkers who THOUGHT they were drinking alcohol consumed more, whether they were swallowing alcohol or not. Those who were consuming alcohol when they thought they weren’t simply lost interest and didn’t drink more than an non-problem drinker.
Withdrawal is often only as bad as we think it’s going to be, and ditto for the fight to stay away from the addictive substance post-withdrawal. I believe many Vietnam Vets came home addicted to heroin, but then went about their lives without requiring the years of treatment that we now prescribe to addicts.
If someone was being sneakily administered a drug and had that drug halted, they would probably go through the withdrawal symptoms thinking they had the flu. If they were then TOLD they were addicted to, say, morphine, that would be a different story. If they were told they were physically dependant on Effexor there would be yet another reaction. Without identifying oneself as an addict you can skip a lot of the flawed “common knowledge” about how addicts behave.
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### Author:  [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/18 "2009-01-11T18:58:59Z")
First we need to define our terms. As [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction) says _addiction_ has several senses:
> [@](#):
>
> In medical terminology, an addiction is a state in which the body relies on a substance for normal functioning and develops physical dependence, as in drug addiction. When the drug or substance on which someone is dependent is suddenly removed, it will cause withdrawal, a characteristic set of signs and symptoms.
>
> However, common usage of the term addiction has spread to include psychological dependence. In this context, the term is used in drug addiction and substance abuse problems, but also refers to behaviors that are not generally recognized by the medical community as problems of addiction, such as compulsive overeating.
Depending on which sense you’re talking about, you’ll get different answers.
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### Author:  [@Qwisp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwisp)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/19 "2009-01-11T19:23:01Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#):
>
> I am addicted to at least one of my prescription meds, and didn’t know it until college. I used to put my prescription meds in my checked bag when I travelled (stupid, I know; I don’t do it any more) until my bag got lost once on an international flight and I went through serious withdrawal until I got my bag 24 hours later. It took some trial and error to find out which one I was addicted to. Still haven’t been able to wean myself off of it, though there are better meds out there for that particular condition.
I’ve been seeing a pain/addiction doctor recently. From what he told me, there is a difference between addiction and dependency. I have been taking my Ultram for so many years that I am dependent on it to the point where I need it to avoid withdrawal symptoms, but I am not addicted to it. I guess the difference is that I have never abused or gone over the recommended dosage. According to him an addict will abuse the medications often taking amounts way beyond the prescribed dosage. Where I may take 150mg a day some addicts take 1000-2000mgs a day.
I don’t like being dependent on any drug, yet I still have pain. We have worked out a plan that will hopefully eventually get me off the Ultram completely, while maintaining my pain relief with other drugs.
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### Author:  [@KnitWit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KnitWit)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addiction-without-knowing-source-possible/480789/20 "2009-01-11T19:45:57Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#):
>
> First we need to define our terms. As [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction) says _addiction_ has several senses:
>
> Depending on which sense you’re talking about, you’ll get different answers.
Right, and I think it’s safe to assume that in some cases one sense affects others. Withdrawal symptoms may be worse for people who are “psychologically addicted” and may be absent for people who don’t know they SHOULD be going through withdrawal.
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