# Additional Straight Dope Forum Suggestion **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179 "2003-04-07T23:08:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/1 "2003-04-07T23:08:49Z")
I have been upset by a couple of threads of late. A bunch of [assholes thought they could be truthful in GD](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174685) without first correctly calculating the offense generated by that truth. This has been an ongoing issue, and it must not continue! Our primary purpose here at the SDMB is to love and cherish each other while sometimes educating. I despair of educating this kind of [asshole!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=165005) I know that, in comparison to the harsh world outside, we are funnier, more loving, more thoughtful, and our genders our more diverse; our Dopefests are legendary for their wit, alcoholism, and free love, yet why do we keep having assholes tell people the truth on the SDMB? Even if the SDMB is ostensibly dedicated to Truth and fighting Ignorance, that is itself ignorant of our primary goal: Loving and caring about each other. If we can find a place in our heart to listen and care for our friends and acquaintances at the Dopefests, than it is obvious that we can find room for them on the SDMB, even if it requires polite lies over hurtful truths. Which would you rather do: Comfort the oppressed with soothing validity or shine the white-hot actinic glare of truth in their eyes? The answer should _not_ be different depending on the whether you are online or not. I tear my heart out and cry over the many injustices heaped upon our minorities in the Real World – is there any reason to expose them, these gentle, polite creatures to further injustices by posters representing the Real World? No. We must provide room in our hearts and on our boards, and [wherever else](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147983&perpage=50&pagenumber=4) we can provide. We should nurture and provide for our endangered minority species of poster: the gay, the transgender, the African-American, and the Native American – It is _not_ enough to simply ban _hate speech_, what about _hurt speech_? Truthful speech, unwanted truth under cover of the raison d’etre of the Great Debates – they may be true, but if one minority person is offended, you’ve _hurt them_. Hurt speech must be banned as well. I have confidence that we are nearly at this stage, but it is not enough, not nearly: What about the dew-faced truth-teller, freshly charged from educating the ignorant, wanders into the wrong thread? Might his every unwitting utterance of hurt speech generate a singularity that unwittingly cause planets to collapse in the transgender community? And what about the hostile minority species that [reveals](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168565&highlight=racist) it is a minority after the offending statement, transforming it into hurt speech? We simply cannot continue to take these risks. We must remove any possibility of hurt speech upsetting our beloved posters; both from deliberate assholes wielding dangerous truth; and from those unaware of our Dopefest rules. I suggest that in order to quarantine our sensitive minority groups, we create two Great Debate Fora. One for the arguments based on white lies, and loving inclusion, and our normal one where Truth prevails. I propose this additional Forum to be named **The Polite Lying Society for the Protection of the Oppressed.** And then our existing Great Debate Forum could once again be a battleground of blistering, searing, and unremitting honesty, without worry about giving massive offense to some minority group with a fragment of hurtful, assholish, truth. Your help and support in repurposing the SDMB for this higher purpose is greatly needed and appreciated. Please let your moderators know how you feel when you next buy them a beer – hopefully soon our beloveds will be protected and safe from Hurt Speech. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, The Ace of Swords ---
**Author:** ![Jessity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jessity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jessity)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/2 "2003-04-07T23:15:56Z")
Man, are you ever a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/3 "2003-04-07T23:21:27Z")
This is arguably the sweetest thread since **december’s** [**The Soft Bigotry of Lowered Expectations**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109637). ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/4 "2003-04-07T23:46:45Z")
**Ace** , do you honestly believe that this is productive in any way? ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/5 "2003-04-07T23:49:31Z")
Sarcasm cloaked in facetiousness… cute. ---
**Author:** ![Lux\_Fiat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bc79bd/32.png) [@Lux\_Fiat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lux_Fiat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/6 "2003-04-07T23:53:23Z")
No no! I cannot endorse this suggestion, however thoughtful and kindhearted the intention of the OP. I must dissent! What is life, if not an opportunity for the expression of bright, hard-edged truth? It is our broadsword! We grip its handle with the surety of a saint, we swing its blade with the conviction of an emperor, and the murmuring liars arrayed against us, whining of compassion, decency, and the celebration of human experience, must fall. In the end they will prove too weak to stand against our righteousness, and when we’ve driven them all scampering away, and we stand free of any companion save our own iron certainty, it will matter not, because we know we’re _right_, and isn’t that what’s _really_ important? Only let’s, y’know, make sure to ignore what we’ll conservatively estimate to be six thousand years of recorded human history just chock-fucking-full of people who claimed to have a hammerlock on truth, who used it as justification for all manner of shitbaggery, and who were pretty much all wrong. Assmonkey. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/7 "2003-04-07T23:55:52Z")
**Ace** , if you’re trying to be even more of an asshat than usual-congratulations! You’ve succeeded! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/8 "2003-04-08T00:05:36Z")
**Ace** , you’re an asshole. I know you like to think of yourself as a noble crusader for truth, one of the few people brave enough to be accurate to the point of bluntness, but you’re not. You’re just an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/9 "2003-04-08T00:08:22Z")
If I ever had any doubts about **Ace of Swords** (as if I did), I certainly do not now. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/10 "2003-04-08T00:09:37Z")
Why the fuck the mods ever let this waste of bandwith back on the boards, I’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/11 "2003-04-08T00:11:40Z")
Y’know, this may be the single most pathetic display of pure jealousy I’ve ever seen: “Waaaah! **Eve** has people who care about her but no-one likes me!” I mean, when the SDMB thought that **Eve** was going to leave because of the sort of needless cruelty that Ace supports, there was a massive outpouring of empathy for her. When Ace was banned, there was…um…nothing. This really is just kind of sad. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/12 "2003-04-08T00:13:00Z")
Hmmph. Very simply, my response is this. The two people who gave offense are known for blunt speech and standing behind what they believe – which does not accord with the majority opinion around here. There is nothing wrong with either blunt speech or standing for what you believe. In doing so, they did it in a manner that offended and insulted another poster, contrary to standards of decorum and etiquette (and, in point of fact, contrary to a prime dictum of what they claim to believe – a topic I will address with them in private, if at all). It is for that manner of speaking that they were Pitted. Respect for others, and particularly for those whose lives and views are difficult for the TM to understand, is an important part of the fighting of ignorance around here. I made these points in the apology thread, towards the end of it. I think that you are carrying an issue just a bit too far in this thread, though the point does need to be made that the three folks targeted in the Pit threads are entitled to exactly the same respect as the folks they offended. Nuff said? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/13 "2003-04-08T00:15:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lux Fiat \* > No no! I cannot endorse this suggestion, however thoughtful and kindhearted the intention of the OP. I must dissent! What is life, if not an opportunity for the expression of bright, hard-edged truth? It is our broadsword! We grip its handle with the surety of a saint, we swing its blade with the conviction of an emperor, and the murmuring liars arrayed against us, whining of compassion, decency, and the celebration of human experience, must fall. In the end they will prove too weak to stand against our righteousness, and when we’ve driven them all scampering away, and we stand free of any companion save our own iron certainty, it will matter not, because we know we’re _right_, and isn’t that what’s _really_ important? Yet I suggest sacrificing neither Truth nor Compassion, but merely suggesting as they are frequently in opposition, perhaps we should clarify our community standards, here, online as they seem to be completely opaque and counter-intuitive. What with the board not being real life and all. But thank you for actually replying to the content. I expect very few others… ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/14 "2003-04-08T00:16:48Z")
It is a complete mystery to me why this supercilious a-hole was unbanned, and even more of a mystery to me why he has not been re-banned, since he has clearly not changed at all and exists only to troll for reactions. He has no crusades other than defending the indefensible so he can get off on riling us up. I have mistakenly taken his bait in the past, but never again. Off to User CP… DNFTA ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/15 "2003-04-08T00:17:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sugaree \* > \*\ ***Ace** , do you honestly believe that this is productive in any way? \*\* Sure. To the extent that people discuss the content of the thread, namely resolving clashing community standards, and not the style. To that end, you could make it a productive thread by engaging that question and not the questioner; but as you wish. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/16 "2003-04-08T00:22:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\*If I ever had any doubts about **Ace of Swords** (as if I did), I certainly do not now. \*\* Aw. As much fun as agreeing with the crowd without furthering an argument is, which doubts have been removed? As I said, I think it’s a neccessary debate. Humour treading where honesty dare not, and all; we might as well debate it now, as it’ll just recur here continuously. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/17 "2003-04-08T00:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I mean, when the SDMB thought that Eve was going to leave because of the sort of needless cruelty that Ace supports, there was a massive outpouring of empathy for her. When Ace was banned, there was…um…nothing. Now, that’s simply not true, **Fenris**. I distinctly remember some celebrating. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/18 "2003-04-08T00:32:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*I mean, when the SDMB thought that **Eve** was going to leave because of the sort of needless cruelty that Ace supports, there was a massive outpouring of empathy for her. When Ace was banned, there was…um…nothing. > > This really is just kind of sad. > > Fenris \*\* My son, you have this all wrong. I cannot allow this falseness you have perpetrated to fester uncorrected. As you well know, in your latter example there was great rejoicing. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/19 "2003-04-08T00:35:28Z")
And now, a new feature for the Teeming Millions; **THE GREAT FENRISI PREDICTS!** I see, in the near future Ace: [ul] [li]Making a “hive mind” comment (“You’re all against me because you’re part of the CLIQUE!”)[/li][li]Making a “Lone wolf” comment (“You’re all against me because I’m a lone crusader who DARES TO SPEAK THE TRUTH THAT YOUR STUPID, **STUPID** MINDS REJECT!”)[/li][li]Possibly the “I wuz jes’ jokin” post (“Heh. You fools. Don’t you understand WIT when you hear it? I was MOCKING the types of people in the OP!”)[/li][/ul] Fenris PS: On preview, **Miller** , **Scylla** , you’re right and I’m wrong. As pennance I will search out a thread Ace started and read the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179/20 "2003-04-08T00:37:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > There is nothing wrong with either blunt speech or standing for what you believe. > > In doing so, they did it in a manner that offended and insulted another poster, contrary to standards of decorum and etiquette (and, in point of fact, contrary to a prime dictum of what they claim to believe – a topic I will address with them in private, if at all). Of course, the standard isn’t and cannot be “do not speak the truth in a manner that might offend and insult” another poster, as that standard isn’t one, being entirely subjective and at the mercies of parsing and unknown sensitivities. > [@](#): > > I made these points in the apology thread, towards the end of it. … though the point does need to be made that the three folks targeted in the Pit threads are entitled to exactly the same respect as the folks they offended. If we don’t treat people equally, there is no standard. Perhaps we might have an actual discussion of what our community standards should be, online. Do we think they should be the same as when we’re out drinking? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/additional-straight-dope-forum-suggestion/167179.md?page=2)