# Addressing a Former President **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 2001, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034 "2001-10-08T02:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/21 "2001-10-09T15:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Logical\_Phallusy \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > > \*\* > > Officially, Bill Clinton should be addressed directly as Mr. Clinton. In the third person (and this is where Conservatives may choke) he should be referred to as “the Honorable William Clinton”. \*\* > > _choke_ \*\* Quit choking. **Anybody** who once held elective office is referred to as ‘The Honorable’. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/22 "2001-10-09T16:46:59Z")
Since we all seem to be in a state of disagreement on this issue, maybe **Unca Cecil** will be kind enough to pop in and settle the debate once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![Perderabo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Perderabo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perderabo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/23 "2001-10-09T17:51:25Z")
At the Jimmy Carter Library, they have [this page](http://carterlibrary.galileo.peachnet.edu/documents/jec/jecbio.phtml) which says: > [@](#): > > President Carter has served on the board of directors, and he and Rosalynn are regular volunteers … And at the Gerald R Ford Library, they have [this page](http://www.ford.utexas.edu/grf/grfnow.htm) which says: > [@](#): > > President Ford resides in Rancho Mirage, California and continues to enjoy a full schedule. So here we have two former Presidents who have allowed themselves to referenced by the title _President_ on web pages that they control. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/24 "2001-10-09T22:35:10Z")
The _New York Public Library Desk Reference_, p. 325, backs up Miss Manners completely. And, here’s a quote from Lyndon Johnson’s [daily diary](http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/diary/1968/680218.asp): “President Johnson began Sunday, February 18, 1968, aboard the aircraft carrier, USS CONSTELLATION, where he had spent the night. …[H]e met with former President, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, and briefed him on Vietnam. After lunch with **General** Eisenhower, Johnson and Eisenhower played golf.” (my bolding–SK) Just a guess, but Ike may very well have been the last former President to adhere to this convention. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/25 "2001-10-10T00:08:15Z")
I call them all “Bubba”. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/26 "2001-10-10T00:18:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr\_Paprika \* > \*\*I call them all “Bubba”. \*\* Shouldn’t that be “Mr Bubba?” ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/27 "2001-10-10T03:49:34Z")
Probably, but that is less satisfying. Will also change eventually. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/28 "2001-10-10T12:19:51Z")
[hijack] When a woman becomes president, how will we address **her**? Mrs. President or Madame President? Or Mrs. **Jarbaby**? 😃 [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Propski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@Guy\_Propski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Propski)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/29 "2001-10-10T16:12:26Z")
Madame President. This is similar to the address used for female ministers (Thatcher was “Madame Prime Minister”) and cabinet members (Madeline Allbright was “Madame Secretary”). It bugs me that I can’t find a reliable cite on the web to back up any of the answers provided so far. I have a vague memory that you should first refer to a former President as “former President So&So”; in subsequent references you can drop the “former.” ---
**Author:** ![Oblong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c0e974/32.png) [@Oblong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblong)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2001, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/30 "2001-10-10T16:20:12Z")
When talking about him, you say ‘former President’, when talking to him, you say “Mr. President”. ---
**Author:** ![mapsmith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/848f3c/32.png) [@mapsmith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mapsmith)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/31 "2001-10-11T05:54:54Z")
Sorry for a possible hijack. But how about Secretary of State Powell preferring “General Powell” instead of “Secretary Powell” ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2001, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/32 "2001-10-11T06:37:41Z")
Miss Manners is **never** wrong. Just because the correct rule is not followed, even if it’s former presidents who are not following it, doesn’t mean that the rule does not exist. The reason it is incorrect to refer to someone who is not the president as “Mr. President” is that “President of the United States” is a title to which no one but the current President of the United States is entitled. DaveW > [@](#): > > Thank you, Otto, for showing me I wasn’t going crazy in remembering exactly that quote (except I must have read it in her newspaper column). I just spent the last 30 minutes searching for it, or any similar source, on the Web, without luck. [Handy, the Human Ton’s puppet and not the SDMB poster] Read a book! [/Handy, the Human Ton’s puppet and not the SDMB poster] TVtime > [@](#): > > (as Commander-and-Chief, he said “President” was a military title) He is incorrect. “President” is not a military title, at least not in the United States. “Commander in Chief” is not an official title anyway, but is instead simply a description of one of the powers held by the person who is currently “President of the United States of America.” mapsmith > [@](#): > > Sorry for a possible hijack. But how about Secretary of State Powell preferring “General Powell” instead of “Secretary Powell” He is at this time not properly referred to as “General Powell.” His correct honorific is “Secretary.” He is Secretary Powell or Mister Secretary. When he steps down as Secretary of State, he may then be properly referred to as “General Powell” if he wishes, although I will bet dollars to donuts that he will be referred to as “former Secretary of State Powell” forever. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/33 "2002-05-22T02:41:12Z")
I thought you all might like an update to this question. I submitted it to the Clinton Library, [www.clintonpresidency.org](http://www.clintonpresidency.org) . My question was long and probably not as clever as I thought it was when I wrote it, but basically I asked which term of address Mr./Governor/former President/President Clinton preferred. I got back this wonderful two-word response: > [@](#): > > The Honorable So there, I think, is the closest thing to a definitive answer I’m going to get. I’d like to think that the brevity of the answer stems directly from The Honorable Bill Clinton himself, but I cannot confirm that and I’m not going to pester anyone any further to find out. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/34 "2002-05-22T02:42:23Z")
Agh! Wrong website! [www.clintonpresidentialcenter.org](http://www.clintonpresidentialcenter.org) My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/35 "2002-05-22T02:50:47Z")
George Marshall was always called “General” and he was Secretary of State. But I think I wrote that a few weeks ago. Where is that scroll key? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/36 "2002-05-22T02:59:00Z")
I don’t buy into this reverence for Miss Manners, latecoming tyro that she is. Emily Post or Amy Vanderbilt still rule my world of etiquette, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/37 "2002-05-22T03:05:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BobT \* > \*\*George Marshall was always called “General” and he was Secretary of State. But I think I wrote that a few weeks ago. > > Where is that scroll key? \*\* A pattern emerges: both George C. Marshall and Dwight D. Eisenhower were five-star generals–a rank that no longer exists, I believe. So their experiences might not apply to Powell? ---
**Author:** ![stankow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@stankow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stankow)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/38 "2002-05-22T03:12:29Z")
(Yes, we have a regulation for every damn thing). By military regulation, former officials are referred to by their highest former title except when the person has expressed a desire to be addressed otherwise. Hence, Ford is “President Gerald Ford” and Clinton is “The Honorable William Clinton.” Also, generals and admirals are never actually “former” generals and admirals unless they were demoted to a lower rank – they remain on the rolls until death, even if they hold a civilian position. Marshall and Eisenhower probably just figured, _Hell, any idiot can be President or Secretary of State – we earned our stars._ Plus who was going to say, “I am certainly NOT going to call you ‘General’!”? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/39 "2002-05-22T06:11:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > **In her book “Miss Manners Rescues Civilization,” Miss Manners states: "Another rule is that there is only one President of the United States at a time. Former presidents do not hold the title. They are–correctly and respectfully–called ‘Mr.,’ or they may revert to an earlier title, such as ‘General’ or ‘Governor.’ Thus, we now have Governor or Mr. Reagan, Governor or Mr. Carter** Explain this, Miss Manners – why is there only one President of the United States at a time, but there can be several governors of Georgia, Arkansas, or California at a time?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034/40 "2002-05-22T07:19:42Z")
[Here’s what the government says.](http://hydra.gsa.gov/staff/c/ca/corstan.htm#pres) Scroll all the way to the bottom and you’ll find that the third person is The Honorable and the direct address is Mr. President. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-a-former-president/86034.md?page=3)