# Addressing PhD in email **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 25, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931 "2013-03-25T17:00:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/21 "2013-03-25T23:16:54Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > “John Smith, Ph.D” is equivalent to “Dr. John Smith”\*. So practically, he _did_ refer to himself as a “Dr.”, and so should you. “Dr.” is form of address. One does not properly refer to oneself using a form of address, notwithstanding that many people find it necessary to induce fawning over their various advanced degrees and professional certifications. Is it incorrect to sign a letter as “Dr. John Smith” the same as you would not sign a letter as “Mr. John Doe.” However, \*\*andstufflikethat \*\*may certainly address him as “Dr.” if he is a professional superior, as he seems to be. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/22 "2013-03-26T12:50:12Z")
There are a hell of a lot more PhDs than there are professors. I always considered the latter as more exalted. I dislike being addressed as Dr. outside of my professional life. Right after I got my PhD, my mother introduced me to some random stranger as Dr. \_\_\_\_\_. I was annoyed and told her so, but she didn’t stop. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/23 "2013-03-26T14:55:57Z")
Me too on that one, sort of. When I introduce somebody to my father, very old now and famous-in-his-field, an emeritus Distinguished Professor still churning out books, with a Ph.D so long ago he hasn’t given a fuck for 70 years, I always say “Dr. Bloom,” because I’m proud of him. He’ll immediately say, with a self-deprecating wave-off of the title, “Hi, I’m Fritz.” Although I’m fairly certain he digs the introduction still. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/24 "2013-03-26T15:11:20Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > This goes toward the “just ‘John’” circumstances. In research-oriented universities, students and faculty often interact as research colleagues rather than as teacher-and-student. In scientific fields at least, the philosophy that ideas and reason trump hierarchy has shaped the social dynamics. The transition from overtly deferential greetings to “Hi, John” typically happens in graduate school, occasionally earlier, although even grad students often seem uncertain about what to call those senior to them. (This isn’t universal. In Japan, for example, hierarchy is more deeply rooted in social interactions, and deference is often overt even in scientific settings.) I’m not at a research orientated university, and these are first years through final year undergraduates; that’s what startled me. I’m used to grad students addressing professors by first names, but it’s an odd experience having a first year address me by my first name. (Been in the professoring sort of business on and off for about 20 years). Yep, **tim314** – as a lecturer I’m addressed as Doctor in formal situations/writing/official school literature. At my school it’s Lecturer – US assistant professor Senior Lecturer – US associate professor Professor – US full professor. We have Readers, but they sort of exist outside of that scheme as you apply for that promotion in a different way than going up the route from lecturer-senior lecturer-professor. Readers can be ‘Doctor’ or ‘Professor.’ No tenure system here. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/25 "2013-03-26T15:28:00Z")
There’s a not so long ago thread, a longish one, on protocol and customs for speaking with college faculty by name.\* \*One of my typical half-assed cites. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/26 "2013-03-26T15:31:58Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > … > > At my school it’s > > Lecturer – US assistant professor > Senior Lecturer – US associate professor > Professor – US full professor. > > We have Readers, but they sort of exist outside of that scheme as you apply for that promotion in a different way than going up the route from lecturer-senior lecturer-professor. Readers can be ‘Doctor’ or ‘Professor.’ No tenure system here. I often wondered about this. In the US, a lecturer is the lowest of the low, beneath assistant professor and often a grad student. And–what, no tenure?! I can’t begin to tell you how different the entire academic profession, and meritocracy, such as there is, must differ. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/27 "2013-03-26T15:40:01Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > We have Readers, but they sort of exist outside of that scheme as you apply for that promotion in a different way than going up the route from lecturer-senior lecturer-professor. Readers can be ‘Doctor’ or ‘Professor.’ No tenure system here. Is that true? A reader is a reader in my field, never heard of a reader being simultaneously a professor at the same institution. I’m a professor in the UK and in the context of work, being addressed in an email by someone you don’t know it has to be Prof Scissors. If I do know them, exchanged emails etc then it’ll likely be first name terms. What really sticks out like a sore thumb is the occasional ‘Mr Scissors’. I get that now and again from German exchange students who have their own elaborate naming rituals, and something is getting lost in translation. Herr Dr Dr etc. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/28 "2013-03-26T16:46:43Z")
> [@flight](#): > > In Engineering I have found that those in University settings tend to emphasize the Dr a lot more and expect it. In government and private industry it is used a lot less among researchers. I’ve also noticed that the only guy with a PhD in a big department of a company uses it a lot more than someone in a research lab. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/29 "2013-03-26T16:48:35Z")
The key is are you referring to him (Ph.D) or addressing him directly (Dr.)? I’d go along with this when addressing a formal letter: John Dough, Ph.D. University Address etc. Saint Cad, Ed.D., NBCT (and no Ph.D. and Dr. are not “equivalent” scr4) Other University address etc. Dear Dr. Dough: blahh blah blah Yours very truly, Saint Cad [no postnomials since I already used them. If I didn’t have a return address in the heading I would put them here] For an email which may be a little more informal you are addressing him so it would be Dr. and because it is informal other doctors would be addressed as Dr. IF he also knew the other doctor like at the same department or school. However an argument could be made that if he doesn’t know the other doctor you could use his doctorate especially if it is not a Ph.D. since in the academic setting a “Dr.” is assumed to be a Ph.D. holder. ☹ “Dr. Dough, I was just talking to Asswipe (Ahz-wee-pay) Jones, SJD …” 🙂 “Dr. Dough, I was just talking to Dr. Jones …” ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/30 "2013-03-26T16:49:28Z")
Yes, and MDs or Ph.D.'s shilling for a product or service in advertisements. ETA: re **Voyager** ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/31 "2013-03-26T16:51:41Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve also noticed that the only guy with a PhD in a big department of a company uses it a lot more than someone in a research lab. I had an English prof who had one of those third-rate “educational advancement” Ph.D.s that many in public institutions get by grinding through a summer session or two, report to HR in order to get the salary bump, and then (properly) hide in a drawer. This one insisted on being called “Dr. Pompousass” and it will give you some indication of her quality as an educator… ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/32 "2013-03-26T18:45:24Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > “Dr.” is form of address. One does not properly refer to oneself using a form of address, notwithstanding that many people find it necessary to induce fawning over their various advanced degrees and professional certifications. Is it incorrect to sign a letter as “Dr. John Smith” the same as you would not sign a letter as “Mr. John Doe.” > > However, \*\*andstufflikethat \*\*may certainly address him as “Dr.” if he is a professional superior, as he seems to be. It’s incorrect for men to do so. Traditional etiquette dictated that a woman introduce herself that way so as to clue others in on which title she used. Signature blocks included her title in parentheses; ie (Miss) Jane Smith. This has all fallen by the wayside since “Ms” became popular. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/33 "2013-03-26T21:12:58Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Is that true? A reader is a reader in my field, never heard of a reader being simultaneously a professor at the same institution. > > I’m a professor in the UK and in the context of work, being addressed in an email by someone you don’t know it has to be Prof Scissors. If I do know them, exchanged emails etc then it’ll likely be first name terms. What really sticks out like a sore thumb is the occasional ‘Mr Scissors’. I get that now and again from German exchange students who have their own elaborate naming rituals, and something is getting lost in translation. Herr Dr Dr etc. Hmm., that’s quite interesting! I have to admit being new to my school and the system here, and am acquainted with only one person who’s a Reader; she insists on being called ‘professor.’ I’m suspecting now with your response that’s she’s a bit forward in that regard (she also likes to remind me that she’s the ‘second best authority!’ in her particular field; one of my colleagues always adds, ‘In a field of two!’ :p) Knowing how particular people are here about the title, I suspect she’s being awfully cheeky then – she does like to lord it over the newbies. I withdraw my comment then, as erroneous information! **Leo Bloom** – Yep, in the US, in my experience, lecturers/instructors were frequently adjuncts who had MAs or were ABDs ('all but dissertation) and were ranked below assistant professor in pay scale. Sometimes, though, non-PhDs were full time instructors, for example in the language or music department. Over here, though, lecturer is what you’d call an assistant professor in the US. The equivalent of an adjunct at my school might be called a part time instructor or a ‘fractional’ because they are on anything from a .1 to a .9 contract (yet we have full-time fractional lecturers as well.) Some people choose to stay at a high fractional contract so that they don’t get burdened with administrative duties. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/34 "2013-03-27T00:21:30Z")
Some particular departments (Art, Music, and the like) might have a slew of MFAs (performing artists’ terminal-degree) and just a handful of PhDs (art/music historians and the like) or EdDs (art ed, music ed, and the like), but they’ll all be considered terminal degreed’ up; so 20 ‘professors’ and only 3 of them are Dr. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/35 "2013-03-27T01:34:20Z")
I have found that “Dear John Smith” works well enough in situations like this. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931/36 "2013-03-27T04:05:18Z")
My question is why you would need to address him at all. It’s an email, not a piece of paper that might need to be routed to the proper recipient. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/addressing-phd-in-email/653931.md?page=1)