# ADHD wildly overdiagnosed; new study finds kids born in August 75% more likely to be diagnosed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 14, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974 "2016-03-14T14:34:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/141 "2018-09-06T06:25:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I haven’t objected to people taking medication. > > Let’s review the title of the thread again: ADHD wildly overdiagnosed; new study finds kids born in August 75% more likely to be diagnosed. > > Common sense dictates that a diagnosis should be accurate when prescribing brain altering drugs. I’m so glad you’ve changed your tune from “For many generations hyperactive children were held to the same standard as the kids around them. They learned to control their behavior. The End.” The thread topic _is_ over-diagnosis, but you’ve been focused on how ANY medication for ADHD is unnecessary as long as those kids get a good paddlin’. If you’re now saying diagnosis had better be accurate before prescribing those meds, that’s admirable progress. Good for you. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/142 "2018-09-06T22:04:44Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > I have ADHD. Diagnosed in my early 40s. Top of the class in high school, smart, well behaved, respectful… but a colossal fuck-up of a life after that. With ADHD, you hit a wall at some point, where you stop being competent enough to get by. My wall didn’t happen till after high school (which itself was a breeze, I never learned to study, didn’t need to). Some people, the wall is in kindergarten. It’s different, but it’s the same. > > ADHD is **both** over-diagnosed **and** under-diagnosed at the same time. Over-diagnosed in rowdy misbehaving boys and in people who lie and scheme to get drugs, far UNDER-diagnosed in all other categories, especially in girls and in non-hyperactive boys. Yep, My husband was just diagnosed in his 50s. He’s never had a job where he has needed sustained concentration the way he needs it for this one. And yes, overdiagnosed in some boys - who would be better served with a few minutes of activity every half hour - and underdiagnosed - particularly in girls who often are more on the inattentive scale - and daydreamers don’t cause much classroom chaos. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/143 "2018-09-07T02:31:55Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Not necessarily. Birth month shows links to everything from asthma through various types of heart disease to schizophrenia. And all of those pretty definitely exist. Diagnosis of Asthma and schizophrenia was notoriously random, illustrating that the concepts of “schizophrenia” and “asthma” mapped poorly to physical phenomena 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/144 "2018-09-07T02:37:40Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Diagnosis of Asthma and schizophrenia was notoriously random, illustrating that the concepts of “schizophrenia” and “asthma” mapped poorly to physical phenomena 🙂 Sorry didn’t notice zombie thread. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/145 "2018-09-07T03:51:52Z")
Uh, did you mean to post that in another thread? This isn’t a zombie, or at least it’s been revived. > [@Nava](#): > > And what I’m trying to say is that medication shouldn’t be what is tried _first_. I’m not saying it’s not a valuable tool, I’m saying it shouldn’t be what people jump on as soon as they get a diagnosis - which is what I see a lot of parents doing. We’re trying to medicate everything. It’s the same “everybody must be forced within ‘normal’ parameters” my mother learned as a Normal School student, but now with meds. Granted this was over thirty years ago, but I went through a year’s worth of tests and counseling before I was finally prescribed Ritalin. I also continued to see a counselor, and had help from my teachers. (And I never would’ve made it without the support of my first grade teacher, Sr. Frances.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/146 "2018-09-07T03:57:22Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I’m so glad you’ve changed your tune from “For many generations hyperactive children were held to the same standard as the kids around them. They learned to control their behavior. The End.” The thread topic _is_ over-diagnosis, but you’ve been focused on how ANY medication for ADHD is unnecessary as long as those kids get a good paddlin’. If you’re now saying diagnosis had better be accurate before prescribing those meds, that’s admirable progress. Good for you. I haven’t changed my tune on anything. We weren’t drugged up as kids. Sorry that bothers you. It’s as if you feel threatened as a teacher to hear this and project your fantasy that we were beaten like drums into submission. Prescribing drugs to alter brain function is a serious thing. Big revelation:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/147 "2018-09-07T04:47:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I haven’t changed my tune on anything. We weren’t drugged up as kids. Sorry that bothers you. It’s as if you feel threatened as a teacher to hear this and project your fantasy that we were beaten like drums into submission. > > Prescribing drugs to alter brain function is a serious thing. Big revelation:rolleyes: We prescribe drugs to alter the function of other body parts when they aren’t working properly. There’s nothing particularly special about the brain – if it’s not working as it should, why is using medication such a bad thing? We give people all kinds of medication for various issues – even children. I was not “drugged up” and I resent the implication. And YOU’RE the one who claimed that kids were given, what was it, “warm bottoms” at school, and then again at home. So don’t blame us for getting that impression. I’m glad you weren’t my father. My parents were skeptical at first – originally it was suspected that I was acting out to get attention due to the fact that my sister had just been born. Thankfully, they continued to seek answers. (BTW, as far as “stay at home parents”, my mother started working full time when I was in high school. My sister was still in grade school at the time. Yet, guess which one of us has ADHD?) ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/148 "2018-09-07T05:58:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And what I’m trying to say is that medication shouldn’t be what is tried _first_. I’m not saying it’s not a valuable tool, I’m saying it shouldn’t be what people jump on as soon as they get a diagnosis - which is what I see a lot of parents doing. We’re trying to medicate everything. It’s the same “everybody must be forced within ‘normal’ parameters” my mother learned as a Normal School student, but now with meds. Dangerously false. Often, with obvious ADHD, medication should and in fact must be tried first, because none of the other valuable solutions can have any practical effect without the medication being already in place. For example, my “mind’s eye” being congenitally more or less disengaged, you can waste your time with me all you want on strategies and planning - I won’t be able to absorb or even properly perceive what you’re saying or doing. And (being a congenial sort of person and being under pressure socially to get “fixed”) I will pretend to understand - after all, you seem to think it’s obvious. Practical everyday oversimplified example: there are books that I can only read when medicated. There are many more, but it gets complicated to explain. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/149 "2018-09-07T09:22:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I haven’t changed my tune on anything. We weren’t drugged up as kids. Sorry that bothers you. It’s as if you feel threatened as a teacher to hear this and project your fantasy that we were beaten like drums into submission. > > Prescribing drugs to alter brain function is a serious thing. Big revelation:rolleyes: What are you TALKING about? Did\* I\* say it bothered me we weren’t “drugged up” as kids? Nope. YOU said “warming bottoms” was all that was needed back then. \*\*I didn’t. Nor did I say we were beaten like drums. Like most people our age, you and I attended schools where kids were smacked or paddled. YOU SAID kids were beaten into submission. I said the exact opposite: that kids with ADHD _can’t_ be beaten into submission, if that’s what you call undisruptive behavior and focused learning. And I’m a retired teacher, so no, I don’t feel threatened. If you presented arguments based on more than your recollections that “warming bottoms” sufficed back in our day, I _still_ wouldn’t feel threatened because I don’t react that way to persuasive evidence. Furthermore, NOBODY on here has said prescribing drugs for brain function is no big deal. I certainly haven’t. But sure, it’s great you’re changing your tune from “warming bottoms” to “Medication is a serious thing.” You should probably cut your losses now and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/150 "2018-09-07T22:52:44Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Like most people our age, you and I attended schools where kids were smacked or paddled. YOU SAID kids were beaten into submission. . No, I didn’t say kids were beaten into submission. I said their bottoms got warmer. Getting spanked was a huge deal. It was only done by the principle. You had to commit some school version of a capital crime. Usually you were kept after school or had to do lines or some other time-sucking punishment. Behavior modification was something you learned as a child. There were all of 2 spankings in all the time I was at school. It wasn’t the threat of spankings that kept the number down. It was going home and getting grounded with no TV or dessert or whatever your parents thought would suck enough to put you back on track. Really, you’d think the universe started the day after amphetamines were invented and that was the end-all solution to hyperactivity. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/151 "2018-09-07T23:37:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, I didn’t say kids were beaten into submission. I said their bottoms got warmer. Getting spanked was a huge deal. It was only done by the principle. You had to commit some school version of a capital crime. Usually you were kept after school or had to do lines or some other time-sucking punishment. Behavior modification was something you learned as a child. > > There were all of 2 spankings in all the time I was at school. It wasn’t the threat of spankings that kept the number down. It was going home and getting grounded with no TV or dessert or whatever your parents thought would suck enough to put you back on track. > > Really, you’d think the universe started the day after amphetamines were invented and that was the end-all solution to hyperactivity. Punishment is a pretend solution that actually has no useful effect on hyperactivity. Punishment makes the punisher feel like something is being done to remedy the situation. Something is being done all right, but it isn’t a remedy for anything. Spanking a child for hyperactivity is exactly as good as nervously biting your fingernails about his hyperactivity. It gives you the impression of action, while in fact accomplishing nothing and causing some degree of harm. If you don’t believe me, imagine that someone punishes you because you refuse to fly by flapping your arms. The person punishing you demands that you do it or else, and if you keep refusing to fly that way, then the punishments will continue or escalate. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/152 "2018-09-08T02:59:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, I didn’t say kids were beaten into submission. I said their bottoms got warmer. Getting spanked was a huge deal. It was only done by the principle. You had to commit some school version of a capital crime. Usually you were kept after school or had to do lines or some other time-sucking punishment. Behavior modification was something you learned as a child. In my elementary school in Texas in the 80s, corporal punishment was quite the opposite of effective. Anytime anyone was summoned to the office, even for certainly mundane reasons (you’re mom dropped off your lunch), it was to chants of “take the licks”. The few times a kid did actually get a paddling, he (probably only “he”) was a hero for a week. We did tell scare stories about how evil the vice principle was, and the holes he drilled in the paddle, etc. Perhaps that was a deterrent to those of us who could \*choose \*how we behaved. But, anytime it was ever actually used, the punished kid would return triumphant. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/153 "2018-09-08T04:39:34Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > In my elementary school in Texas in the 80s, corporal punishment was quite the opposite of effective. Anytime anyone was summoned to the office, even for certainly mundane reasons (you’re mom dropped off your lunch), it was to chants of “take the licks”. The few times a kid did actually get a paddling, he (probably only “he”) was a hero for a week. > > We did tell scare stories about how evil the vice principle was, and the holes he drilled in the paddle, etc. Perhaps that was a deterrent to those of us who could \*choose \*how we behaved. But, anytime it was ever actually used, the punished kid would return triumphant. And defiant. As far as I can determine, ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) is a condition mainly caused by the punishments given for other disorders. Should maybe be renamed CPD for clueless parents disorder. If you know anyone who was born defiant, I’m listening. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/154 "2018-09-08T04:53:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > For many generations hyperactive children were held to the same standard as the kids around them. They learned to control their behavior. The End. No, [they didn’t](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121015162407.htm). Now, it’s true that the men in the study aren’t as old as you, **but** they’re several years older than I am: an average of about 47 years old now. Look how successful they are: in addition to being poorer and 3 times as likely to be divorced as typical people nearly 1/3rd didn’t even graduate high school. There’s a big difference between not acting out and controlling what’s wrong with you. Even as an adult I can sit perfectly still, _or_ I can pay attention but quietly fidget or doodle or take “notes” which are as much to do something with my hands as to record information. If you sat next to me in the former situation you wouldn’t realize that nearly all of my concentration was focused on being still rather than anything else going on in the meeting, but if you asked me to construct a narrative of the meeting after the meeting it’d be very vague. I tend to only force myself to be very still when appearances are more important than active participation (like when I had to attend meetings with various state DOEs but, being very junior, didn’t need to say much). I can’t imagine a kid - often scared of the teacher giving him a whupping and Dad another when he got home if he did - learning a hell of a lot if he had to deal with that day after day. No wonder over 31% couldn’t get through high school. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/155 "2018-09-08T05:45:46Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > And defiant. > > As far as I can determine, ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) is a condition mainly caused by the punishments given for other disorders. Should maybe be renamed CPD for clueless parents disorder. If you know anyone who was born defiant, I’m listening. People often get ADHD mixed up with ODD. ADHD is a biological disorder that is not caused by bad parenting; ODD is a hallmark of having bad parents, or no parents at all. So is Reactive Attachment Disorder; ODD and RAD are very common in foster children, and almost impossible to treat. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/156 "2018-09-08T15:36:39Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > No, [they didn’t](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121015162407.htm). And higher rates of incarceration. So no, they didn’t learn to control their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/157 "2018-09-08T18:32:51Z")
I don’t think there’s any way to enlighten someone who clings so stubbornly to a calcified perspective based entirely on rosy childhood memories. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/158 "2018-09-08T19:07:44Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I don’t think there’s any way to enlighten someone who clings so stubbornly to a calcified perspective based entirely on rosy childhood memories. Have you tried “hot bottoms”? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/159 "2018-09-08T19:49:21Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I tend to only force myself to be very still when appearances are more important than active participation (like when I had to attend meetings with various state DOEs but, being very junior, didn’t need to say much). I can’t imagine a kid - often scared of the teacher giving him a whupping and Dad another when he got home if he did - learning a hell of a lot if he had to deal with that day after day. No wonder over 31% couldn’t get through high school. You’re just completely clueless on what I’ve said and are focused on “whuppings”. I don’t understand why you’re forcing yourself to sit still. That’s contrary to your position of drugs versus learning to change your behavior. It’s not like ADHD goes away. Shouldn’t you go to the doctor and get your dosage increased? Seriously, what’s going on here? ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974/160 "2018-09-08T22:17:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You’re just completely clueless on what I’ve said and are focused on “whuppings”. I don’t understand why you’re forcing yourself to sit still. That’s contrary to your position of drugs versus learning to change your behavior. It’s not like ADHD goes away. Shouldn’t you go to the doctor and get your dosage increased? > > Seriously, what’s going on here? Do you have ADHD yourself? Because you’re obviously having a hell of a time paying attention here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adhd-wildly-overdiagnosed-new-study-finds-kids-born-in-august-75-more-likely-to-be-diagnosed/748974.md?page=9)