# Adios, Twins **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 6, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885 "2001-11-06T22:56:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lowellster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Lowellster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowellster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/21 "2001-11-07T19:08:54Z")
[This](http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/caple_jim/1274188.html) is much better stated than the marginally coherent rant that I would otherwise put together. ---
**Author:** ![Thunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a8b319/32.png) [@Thunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thunder)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/22 "2001-11-07T20:13:49Z")
I thought this thread was gonna be about neutering… ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/23 "2001-11-07T21:11:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thunder \* > \*\*I thought this thread was gonna be about neutering… \*\* HeeHee—my first thought was that Rysdad was anticipating a breast reduction… ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/24 "2001-11-07T21:21:40Z")
or was leaving Hooters. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/25 "2001-11-07T22:39:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*I haven’t really been following this story as it developed. As an outside observer (and not much of a baseball fan), I’m wondering: is anyone eating crow on having just expanded so recently? Shouldn’t they be? Seems like an incredible waste of effort and resources to add teams and stadiums just to pack other one up and fold em a few years later. Is _someone_ red-faced and sheepish? Anyone? \*\* Sure, they’re red-faced. They forgot that they need extra sites to threaten cities with when MLB doesn’t get its way. Oops. North Carolina just doesn’t cut it (sorry–I’m sure it’s a very nice place). The Florida Marlins are at risk, but not at as much risk as the Twins. If the Marlins are contracted, MLB would have to admit that they made a mistake by expanding, and they aren’t willing to do that yet, IMO. Here is my new theory, which I have also posted in a similar thread in the Pit. Does Selig think that by contracting the Twins, he will gain more Brewers fans or something? Frankly, I think that many, many former Twins fans will give up on MLB all together. That’s a lot of people who won’t be watching games in person or on TV next year. They certainly won’t be making too many eight-hour trips to Milwaukee! I think that MLB needs its small-market teams much more than they realize to keep their fan base. If Selig starts picking them off instead of examining MLB’s salary and revenue problems, he’s going to find that most of the nation won’t give a whit about MLB anymore. Contraction will spell the beginning of the end for MLB. I smell death here. ---
**Author:** ![Fledermaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Fledermaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fledermaus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/26 "2001-11-07T23:16:12Z")
CrankyAsAnOldMan said: > [@](#): > > is anyone eating crow on having just expanded so recently? I have thought the same thing recently. The geniuses that decided that Tampa Bay was a great place to put an expansion team four years ago are now telling us that they need to eliminate two teams, and Tampa Bay is actually on the list of potential contractees? WTF? I suppose this is baseball, and since Phoenix was the other expansion team along with Tampa Bay, 1 for 2 is a .500 batting average, which is pretty damned good? How can anyone believe anything that comes out of Bud Selig’s mouth? This Chicken Little never has a solid solution to offer, just cries about how 20 small-market teams don’t have a chance at the postseason this year. The Twins, one of these hopeless small-market teams, finished in second place this year, for crying out loud! The year this franchise had should be held up as a shining example to the pieces of excrement who serve as upper management for teams like the Royals, Tigers, and Pirates. See, dumbasses? You build fan support by building a farm system that provides quality players, and you stop spending money on the mediocre free agents like Derek Bell and Pat Meares (I’m talking to you, Pirates) that do nothing but suck up payroll while taking up roster space. ---
**Author:** ![Lowellster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Lowellster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowellster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/27 "2001-11-08T18:20:32Z")
1991-2000 attendance figures: Milwaukee Brewers, 15,238,305; Minnesota Twins, 15,499,156. Haven’t heard Selig talk much about contracting the Brewers. Oh, wait! He owns them. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/28 "2001-11-08T19:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rysdad \* > \*\* > Nah, my only real opinion is that Carl Pohlad is an asshole. > \*\* Just curious, but why is Pohlad an asshole? Did the team make any money in the last few years? I noticed the same sorts of things going on there when the Stars announced their intention to move. The fans bitched and moaned yet were unwilling to buy season tickets, the one thing that had a chance of saving the team. Since 1990 the Twin Cities lost the Stars, almost lost the T-Wolves, almost lost the Vikings and are about to lose the Twins. Maybe it isn’t the owners. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/29 "2001-11-08T19:26:45Z")
Why Carl is an asshole: He threatened to move, and when his bluff was called, he backed off. He said he’d _give_ the Twins to the state and only keep the concession money, but then backed off. He offered to sell the Twins for $82 million, then backed off. He invested effectively _nothing_ in the Twins from '92 up to '99 knowing that they’d be fielding a poor team. He won’t even entertain reasonable offers to sell because he knows he’d get more if the team is torpedoed. I’m sure there’s more, but that’s all that comes to mind right now. ---
**Author:** ![Fledermaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Fledermaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fledermaus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/30 "2001-11-08T19:45:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Haven’t heard Selig talk much about contracting the Brewers. Oh, wait! He owns them. Now, now, he had to sell all of his shares in the team when he became the Commissioner. Bud Selig has no hand in the operations of the Brewers. That’s taken care of by his daughter and son-in-law… > [@](#): > > Just curious, but why is Pohlad an asshole? Did the team make any money in the last few years? This is one of the problems in having a serious discussion about the finances of Major League Baseball teams. Every owner of a supposed “small-market” team is perfectly willing to cry poor at every opportunity, and attempt to extort half a billion dollars from their fans for a new stadium. But I don’t think any owner has ever opened up the books to a public accounting and said, “Here–this proves that I’m not making money.” By the way, a story at [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) had the following quote: > [@](#): > > U.S. Sen. Paul Wellstone, a Minnesota Democrat, said he will introduce legislation Thursday that would revoke major league baseball’s antitrust exemption, hoping to use it as leverage in preventing the elimination of the Twins. I think it would go down as one of the most incredibly short-sighted moves ever if this contraction by MLB led to the revocation of the antitrust exemption. Have you cut off your nose to spite your face anytime recently, Mr. Selig? ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/31 "2001-11-08T19:53:28Z")
I doubt it comes through. Tamex, I saw a article at [http://www.canoe.ca](http://www.canoe.ca) noting the proximity of the Twins to Milwaukee. They openly questioned ulterior motives. Remember, the Twins drew 3 million before the Yanks did. Adam, it’s been reported the revenue sharing for the Twins went right into Pohlad’s pocket, and they supposedly been profitable the last few years, with a very favorable lease. The Expos… maybe Montreal can only support a AAA team. Maybe it just isn’t a good baseball town. Move the team. Try Charlotte or whatever. Why would they pay Loria 8x what he paid 3 years ago? Even seen suggestions to put a third team back in NY. Hey, the Jersey Meadowlands sits empty all summer. I think it’s just a bargaining threat - the union contract is over. ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/32 "2001-11-08T19:59:54Z")
Fled, I don’t think Bud Light, Commissioner Cntrctn, SOLD his shares in the team, he just cannot do day-to-day operations. ---
**Author:** ![Lowellster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Lowellster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowellster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/33 "2001-11-08T21:27:20Z")
Lurkernomore is correct. Selig did not sell his share of the Brewers, he just is (supposedly) not directly involved in their operation while he is commissioner. Yes, the Twins have made money almost every year, just as almost every other major league team has. If you doubt this, I’ll gladly go off on a big accounting rant about player depreciation when I have more time. For now just trust me, the owners are not losing money. ---
**Author:** ![Fledermaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Fledermaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fledermaus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/34 "2001-11-08T22:11:37Z")
> [@](#): > > For now just trust me, the owners are not losing money. There is no way that baseball owners are losing the amount of money they claim to be. If they were, then it would be in their best interests to open their books and say, “See! We’re losing money by the bucket! Build us a stadium!” The fact that no owner has ever done so leads one to believe that doing so would flatly contradict statements from Bud and the owners. I guess I just assumed that Selig had to sell his ownership in the team when he became the Commissioner. Silly me, having the Commissioner own a stake in one of the league’s teams could look like a conflict of interest or something. Luckily, this is Major League Baseball, and not a real business or anything. At least until Congress takes a close look at that antitrust exemption… ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/35 "2001-11-09T03:20:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lowellster \* > \*\*Lurkernomore is correct. Selig did not sell his share of the Brewers, he just is (supposedly) not directly involved in their operation while he is commissioner. \*\* That is true. As soon as he steps down as commissioner (tomorrow, I hope), he’ll regain control of the Brewers. If this contraction does happen, an NL team will have to go to the AL. I hope the Brewers go back, but it’s going to be the WS champ Diamondbacks. What a world. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/36 "2001-11-09T03:43:19Z")
Every time I read this Thread Title I thought someone was getting breast reduction surgery. I think I’ll go now… ::_backs slowly out of thread_:: ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/37 "2001-11-09T04:28:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Der Meister \* > \*\*I _seriously_ doubt the Rangers will be dropped. Texas is a huge market. \*\* …and _I_ seriously doubt that they will ax a team recently owned by the current President of the United States. Not if they want any more anti-trust exemptions. TV ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/38 "2001-11-09T05:25:15Z")
I had and lost a link [sub]Dyno, get in here and post that thing, eh?[/sub] stating that the vote for contraction was 28-2…with Pohlad and whoever owns the Expos voting no. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > I noticed the same sorts of things going on there when the Stars announced their intention to move. The fans bitched and moaned yet were unwilling to buy season tickets, the one thing that had a chance of saving the team. I think people bitched and moaned more that Norm Green (may he rot in hell) put half of the games on pay-per-view and then wondered why the TV ratings dropped, thus lowering his ad revenue. Gee, Norm…maybe it’s cos cable hadn’t yet reached the hinterlands and half the state was gathered at Bubba’s Bar and Grille watching games they could no longer see at home? As for the T-wolves and Vikings…well, it seems that someone’s always talking about some team moving. MN has just had more than its fair share of such talk the past couple of years (anyone remember anything about the Vikings moving before that Texan bought them?). ---
**Author:** ![DynoSaur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DynoSaur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DynoSaur)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/39 "2001-11-09T06:17:19Z")
Here’s that [link](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2001/11/06/contraction_ap/) Personal opinion, I think Polhad and Loria only voted against it because they knew the other owners would vote for it, and they wanted to score cheap political points. ---
**Author:** ![Lowellster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Lowellster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lowellster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885/40 "2001-11-15T16:41:15Z")
If you have any interest in this at all, please help us Minnesotans out by signing the “Keep the Twins” petition [here](http://www.keepthetwins.com/). Feel free to include a lengthy rant in the comments area. Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adios-twins/91885.md?page=3)