# Administration of the SDMB
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177
**Category:** About This Message Board
**Created:** [October 2, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177 "2014-10-02T12:26:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/61 "2014-10-03T00:19:40Z")
> [@cmyk](#):
>
> Board maintenance, upgrades, or anything else the mods need to go to a true Admin to do.
LOL, you said _upgrades_. I’m pretty sure we’re upgrade proof here.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/62 "2014-10-03T00:27:49Z")
> [@Giraffe](#):
>
> Seriously, I couldn’t be more sympathetic to the mods: I know you’re in a shitty situation, having to moderate a board with epsilon-\>0 admin support. But not only have the owners papered this board with ads, they’re charging an annual membership fee. For a board they put less time into than almost any free board on the web. People have a right to be annoyed by that situation, it’s a pretty big slap in the face to the people who have supported this place for years and years.
No. Not at all. Misguided.
I’ve made a ballpark estimate of the revenue this place pulls in and it’s somewhere short of diddly. Now admittedly there’s some theoretic upside to the Straight Dope brand that might be monetized in the distant future, sort of like Marvel comics before CGI processing leveled up. But …there’s also the rather pronounced downside of potential liab il ity. Thisss bizisines s model ma kes no se nssssse. _gollum_
> [@](#):
>
> It’s like you’re a waiter in a restaurant where you’re not allowed to push tables together or do separate checks. Obviously it’s not your fault so it sucks that people gripe at you. But people aren’t going to stop griping, because it’s a strange and pointless setup.
Um no. Point me to a Fortune 500 company forum that has this level of _public, unfiltered_ feedback about their product. The analogy would be the folks who walk in to McDonald’s, ask to speak to the manager, and pontificate for hours about the decor, the size of the parking lot, whether Ronald would look better with a moustache, haven’t they heard of logistics and Italian food and what happened to the Hamburgler? You guys never listen! With the interaction livecasted over C-Span 24/7.
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### Author:  [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/63 "2014-10-03T01:05:42Z")
Thanks, **TubaDiva** , for the recap and new details.
Having been in a management situation where I have to rely on other people’s resources, I can say that sometimes you feel can borrow a resource to get something done, but you might not be able to keep the resource to fix things up if something goes wrong.
So it’s possible that we could ask Jerry to do some things, but if anything goes wrong, we’d have trouble getting his time to clean it up. Sometimes the downside of failure isn’t worth it.
(not saying this always applies, but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t one of the issues at play.)
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### Author:  [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2014, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/64 "2014-10-03T05:57:46Z")
May be talking out of school here, but really there’s no more upgrades for us at this juncture except maybe security ones. There is currently nothing scheduled I’m aware of.
The version of vBulletin that we’re on is pretty good, considering. Stepping up to the newest versions is a nightmare for a board of this size – I’ve heard from other board owners that upgrading to version 4 on up doubles the size of the database for a starter.
We have 15 years worth of posts on this board and we have already occasional server bogdowns; how bad would it be if the load was doubled?
And, again, return on investment: What would we gain from any upgrade that would translate to $$$? The site needs to turn a profit, it’s owned by a business, it’s not operating this site for charity.
The Straight Dope has a tiny subscription base (that’s voluntary on your part). There’s lots and lots of users who are on AdBlock and the like, so ad revenue isn’t so big neither. (That’s also voluntary on your part.) No, I can’t give you figures, I don’t know them and I do believe STM is privately held, so no public info. My understanding is that we’ve held our own pretty much through thick and thin, though it could always be better. Measure for Measure’s assessment of revenue as “diddly” is probably accurate. Not going broke but not getting rich neither.
So whatchagonnado?
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2014, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/65 "2014-10-03T12:34:20Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#):
>
> So whatchagonnado?
Complain, of course! It’s the Teeming Millions way. 😉
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### Author:  [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)
#### Post date: [October 3, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/66 "2014-10-03T12:43:12Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#):
>
> So whatchagonnado?
I’m going to change from a member to a guest by the end of today. I might complain a bit as well.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/67 "2014-10-04T02:10:35Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#):
>
> So what, in your opinion, SHOULD be happening here?
Not directed to me, but in terms of what SHOULD be happening, my two cents is that either you or Marley (or both) should be given full admin access/powers to take some of the load off Jerry and also allow improvements to the boards, like creating a new forum.
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### Author:  [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2014, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/68 "2014-10-04T03:41:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#):
>
> …
> What does this say about folks who pay the annual membership fee? I don’t know, since they get the same level of service that we plebs do.
That’s what you think…
Are people saying out loud that Ed and Cecil have never been in the same room? Say it ain’t so.
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/69 "2014-10-04T04:25:06Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#):
>
> Not a lie but some nomenclature confusion.
That’s on **engineer\_comp\_geek** , isn’t it?
Anyway, thank you for the long explanation. In particular, this bit:
> [@](#):
>
> STM provides overall IT management and so the Reader IT department got folded into STM corporate IT. Jerry was assigned another whole full-time job unrelated to TSD. His work for TSD is a legacy assignment and is in addition to his other job.
Useful to know, as it helps us understand why Jerry’s access is now reduced.
> [@](#):
>
> Then we had a security breach here on the Straight Dope site.
>
> In the wake of this incident it was the decision of STM management to severely restrict who had administrative access to the Straight Dope site. We didn’t do anything bad or wrong, STM just wanted less opportunity for security hackage/exploitation.
>
> STM removed administrative access to vBulletin for everyone except Jerry. Now we all have moderator privileges, including Ed.
>
> That’s the level of security STM feels comfortable with and we have been told this is not going to change.
And that’s where the problem resides. The paid guy who is now the only one with access is too busy with his other job. The volunteers that used to be able to do a lot of things now can’t do those things. Nobody at STM cares enough about the boards to support the general user experience maintenance. We can’t get forum adjustments considered that would improve the membership experience and increase traffic. We can’t get flourishes that we used to be able to get on a whim, now they take a virgin sacrifice (and olive oil is expensive). From the user perspective, the board may be “functional” in the sense we can still log on and post, but it’s not nearly as responsive to the members concerns as it used to be.
I get that this is ultimately a business decision, and STM is looking at the revenue provided by the SD as part of that evaluation. That doesn’t keep it from being unpleasant for the users.
> [@Loach](#):
>
> True enough but that was only part of the answer. Mild curiosity about how things are behind the scenes seems normal. Anything deeper into the weeds seems weird to me. I genuinely don’t understand why anyone would care.
So we can understand what is going on and why the management responsiveness has gone to hell? So we can consider our recourses, besides throwing in the towel and abandoning the boards as too frustrating? Really, why does somebody else’s curiosity bother you?
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### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/70 "2014-10-04T04:25:11Z")
**Leo Bloom**? Don’t be silly. Of course they have.
Let’s say it’s oh, 1973. A youthful and feckless Ed Zotti sits in the Chicago Public Library.
Perched on his lap are the remains of an overly soggy tuna salad on pumpernickel with mayo, minced celery, dried onion flakes and a dash of paprika.
Sitting on the desk before him is a legal pad with a list of some amusing articles he’s been writing. He’s pondering compiling them into a book or something.
The room has copious sunlight and that alluring dusty old hardbound book scent.
Suddenly the air quivers. Ed feels a damp chill move across his forehead, and while it does some sincere good in terms of preserving the warmed tuna salad, it makes him feel a bit squeamish.
There is a thick tang in the air of arc welding and burnt meat. A heavy bumping sound and a quick dark movement in the right-hand corner informs Ed that indeed Cecil has arrived.
In a soothing voice only existing inside of his head, Ed clearly hears the pearls of wisdom that comprise so much of his relationship with Cecil.
" Next time, wise up and tell them to hold the mayo and toast the pumpernickel bread !! "
The moment passes.
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### Author:  [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2014, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/71 "2014-10-04T09:59:11Z")
> [@Irishman](#):
>
> That’s on **engineer\_comp\_geek** , isn’t it?
Yep. My bad.
I apologize for any confusion that I caused. I was also a bit under the weather this week and didn’t check back on this thread until much later, and by then a lot of my comments had been misinterpreted and things had gone quite badly off the rails. I apologize for not responding in a more timely manner to that as well.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2014, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/72 "2014-10-04T21:25:48Z")
> [@Irishman](#):
>
> And that’s where the problem resides. The paid guy who is now the only one with access is too busy with his other job. The volunteers that used to be able to do a lot of things now can’t do those things. Nobody at STM cares enough about the boards to support the general user experience maintenance.
Generally speaking, I opine these complaints involve the heated fabrication of planets out of anthills. Or maybe red giants out of molecules.
> [@](#):
>
> I get that this is ultimately a business decision, and STM is looking at the revenue provided by the SD as part of that evaluation.
Well, not quite IMHO. There’s no evaluation: it’s more a case of benign neglect. Upper management doesn’t want to think about these things and lower management (Ed) wants to stay below the radar. I expect that someday this will all got to pot. In the best case it gets spun off into a nonprofit. In the worst case, the board is closed and the backups sent to landfill or the ether. Personally, I have doubts about the best case, as upper management won’t want to just give away the brand.
Whatcha complaining about? There’s always the (woefully incomplete and slow to access) Wayback machine.
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/73 "2014-10-05T01:24:02Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> 1. Why do you care about the particulars? If Jerry gets kidnapped by the Giraffe Boards I’m sure they have a way to get someone to step in. He may even get to go on vacation from time to time too.
If Jerry gets kidnapped by Giraffe Boards, would the SDMB PTB launch a thousand ships to get him back?
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### Author:  [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/74 "2014-10-05T01:40:47Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#):
>
> So what, in your opinion, SHOULD be happening here?
>
> Keep in mind that while you may well love The Straight Dope (and thank you for your participation and affection) this is about a corporation running a business.
Why, then, does STM even maintain the existence of this board? It takes up server CPU cycles, mongo disk space for the database, soaks up vast quantities of electrons, even the floor space in the computer room is a resource occupied by STMB.
What is the opportunity cost of all this? If STM is only getting penny-ante revenue from a few clicks on a few ads and a few paid members, couldn’t STM re-allocate all these resources in some other way that generates more revenue than that? Is STMB the best use for all these resources?
Questions like these are why some have speculated (see up-thread) that STM might pull the plug on STMB in the foreseeable future.
Is this seriously a possibility?
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/75 "2014-10-05T02:04:57Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> If Jerry gets kidnapped by Giraffe Boards, would the SDMB PTB launch a thousand ships to get him back?
The thousand ships will be used as an evacuation fleet.
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### Author:  [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/76 "2014-10-05T02:36:37Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#):
>
> …
>
> Let’s say it’s oh, 1973. A youthful and feckless Ed Zotti sits in the Chicago Public Library.
> …
That was…
That was beautiful!
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### Author:  [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/77 "2014-10-05T03:10:42Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> If Jerry gets kidnapped by Giraffe Boards, would the SDMB PTB launch a thousand ships to get him back?
Can’t say. Never seen the dude’s face.
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/78 "2014-10-05T03:21:18Z")
> [@Senegoid](#):
>
> Why, then, does STM even maintain the existence of this board? It takes up server CPU cycles, mongo disk space for the database, soaks up vast quantities of electrons, even the floor space in the computer room is a resource occupied by STMB.
>
> What is the opportunity cost of all this? If STM is only getting penny-ante revenue from a few clicks on a few ads and a few paid members, couldn’t STM re-allocate all these resources in some other way that generates more revenue than that? Is STMB the best use for all these resources?
>
> Questions like these are why some have speculated (see up-thread) that STM might pull the plug on STMB in the foreseeable future.
>
> Is this seriously a possibility?
Peeling away the irony, there is some potential upside to the brand and therefore to the board. Furthermore, _provided it does no harm_ there’s no reason not to keep it going. At the very least eliminating it could ruffle the feathers of the gnomes banging out words in their underground sweatshops. Let them have their harmless baubles.
Also, expecting the head office to be candid with the lower level peons shows a touching faith in human character. As does the implication that they spend time thinking about this backwater to any significant degree, or even have a clue what 2017 will bring.
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### Author:  [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/79 "2014-10-05T04:01:16Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#):
>
> …
>
> Let’s say it’s oh, 1973. A youthful and feckless Ed Zotti sits in the Chicago Public Library.
> …
> [@Napier](#):
>
> That was…
> That was beautiful!
No, it wasn’t.
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### Author:  [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2014, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/administration-of-the-sdmb/700177/80 "2014-10-05T11:01:10Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#):
>
> I have no contact at all with the folks who own and operate the SDMB, but I rather doubt that they get a lot of enjoyment out of people here telling them how to do their jobs and run their business.
What an arrogant remark from a Moderator.
Are we not supposed to pose questions? Especially on a board titled “Administration of the SDMB”?
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