I tend to disagree with this. I’m generally at Wal Mart late and there’s always two or three families with little kids there. The kids are always crying, the parents always look exhausted. Nobody wants to be there. I’ve never once thought that anyone was trying to be at Wal Mart with their kids late night. Those are people who don’t get home at 5 and who don’t have someone to stay with their kids after bedtime. Those are shiftworkers. Those are single parents or grandparents. Those are people that had to borrow a car. Those are people who are just trying to make it work.
You shouldn’t be going to Wal Mart in the middle of the night expecting a peaceful stroll.
And who disagreed with this? The OP essentially was calling out the second sort as the inconsiderate shits they are, and some folk took issue with that.
I’d go further, tho, and suggest that parents “giving half a shit” is little compense for ruining my meal. Maybe they ought to give the whole shit, or stay home.
I didn’t think the OP mentioned anything other than restaurants. You know, where the fellow diners can’t readily escape your brat?
Nah. Grown up people who can deal with kids can go out for dinner and adult cry-babies who throw tantrums over seeing children can stay home. Restaurants will make more money serving entire families than grumpy “adults”
Only those who are shocked that sometimes kids make sounds or dismayed that kids might sometimes play on modern electronic devices. I haven’t disagreed with the “You’re turning monkeys into people, sometimes it’s not perfect” set.
Yup. I think about a parent I knew who was homeless, living in a women’s shelter with her kid, fleeing an abusive ex, attending court-ordered 12-step programs, working, and dealing with her kids’ pretty severe PTSD and defiance.
There’s a decent chance she took him to Walmart at some Fuck You hour, because she wasn’t exactly rolling in options.
You don’t understand, StraightTalk. Those kids you see behaving themselves are just caught on a good day. All kids run around like nutters and throw hellacious public tantrums. All of them. Any parent who tells you otherwise is a liar or deluding themselves. Or they got easy kids, that happens too. But anyway, it’s not the parents’ fault they misbehave, you know.
The problem we found with this - in the case of the epic meltdown - was twofold.
One was removing a screaming tantruming child from a restaurant. They kick. They flail. Sometimes, it is best that they kick and flail in the restaurant for five minutes - mortifying their parents and disturbing other diners - than it is to risk one of those other diners getting kicked in the head by physically removing the flailing kicking screaming toddler.
The other is the matter of the bill. Restaurants want you to pay the bill. Society does not look well on parents who leaving tantruming flailing children unattended on the sidewalk while the only parent who is out to dinner with said child tries to pay the bill.
I don’t think it’s reasonible for you to expect to live in a world consisting only of adults. Or maybe eat a bit later. Children have early bed times.
We bring our kids (age 3 1/2 and 1) out to dinner all the time. I’d say 90% of the time, they are fine. Well, the baby just sits there smiling at everyone and playing with her napkin. The boy sometimes gets fidgety, so sometimes one of us just walks him around for awhile until he’s satisfied he’s explored everything in the area.
Yes and no. Some parents do let their kids just run amok. All kids are different, but there are things you can do to reduce the risk of meltdowns and bad behavior. Make sure the kids are well rested. Don’t end a busy day at a nice steakhouse. Make sure they have some shit to keep them busy. Even then, we still try to be out of there as quickly as possible.
I only raised 3 kids, and none of them “ran around like nutters” in public places. Partly because we taught them not to, and partly because we didn’t run the risk of imposing on other people. From infancy (well before it would be effective) we told them about things like “inside voices” and “best manners.” When they misbehaved, there were repercussions. And when they threw tantrums, they were removed. We spent many a meal taking turns with one parent walking around with a fussy baby.
Anyway, I think we just have a basic difference of opinion as to what types of child behavior are appropriate in what types of places/situations. And I doubt any of us has much chance of convincing the others.
I doubt many folk would object to “kids being kids” at McD’s or many fast-casual restaurants, at the zoo, at playgrounds/parks, etc. (Tho I have a dislike for the shrieking many folk seem to feel natural and unavoidable.) In my opinion, until you are pretty sure your kid can behave properly at nicer places, you either get a sitter or stay home.
As far as the screens are concerned - folk make a good point about them being the modern analog to crayons/toys for very young children. Personally, I admit a dislike for the modern prevalence of screen usage in social situations - but that is just me. I also have experienced many situations where kids old enough to engage in the general conversation were absorbed in their screens instead.
I guess my kids/household were unusual. From a very young age, we consistently had dinner conversations that were not solely about power rangers or teenage mutant ninja turtles. Very young kids CAN certainly participate in meaningful discussions - IF that is what is expected of them.
heck, with a lot of fast-casual and chain places, the kids are hardly the noisiest thing. I don’t know who started this trend of no- or insufficient acoustic treatment, but there are places now which are oppressively loud when busy.
I don’t know about the US but over here an abandoned loaded shopping trolley (as they’re called over here) is a red flag that there is a cashier on the take. Anyone doing this, please alert a member of staff so that the wrong impression is not given.
I wasn’t entirely kidding in my earlier post. If everyone waited for when they were ready, there would be no children.
As with anything else, book learning only gets you so far, and even then it’s only sometimes useful. The rest of parenting is on the job training which, at the end of it all, leaves you with condensed counterintuitive general wisdom that can be written on the back of an envelope.
I volunteer at a highschool. One thing I do is work in concessions for ballgames. It amazes me what some parents will send their kids up to the stand to get. Half of them can’t remember what they are supposed to buy or the cost of items, the other half have friends who see they have money so they come to the counter with the kid and beg. I have sent many back to their parents with a note. Boy have I got chewed out for that. Look, parents your child may be the smartest kid in 1st grade, but 6 other kids putting the make on him would confuse even a jr. Einstein. At half times and between games every kid in the stands come to the concessions. Great that is what we are there for. Boy, does it get loud in the confined space. We have off duty police that work security for the games. They have to mother-hen the kids in line, to keep the noise level down to a decibel we can live with.
