# Adolf Hitler didn't use chemical weapons?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254 "2017-04-11T18:16:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/141 "2017-04-13T16:28:18Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My admiration and affection for Jesus of Nazareth does not extend to those who claim to represent him. You’re so edgey, a razor blade could cut itself on you! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/142 "2017-04-13T16:40:17Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > In fact, now that I think about it, you and Elucidator can both style yourselves as Ultra-Edgelords for talking so about the Eucharist on Holy Thursday/Good Friday. You’re both just so daring! Piss off, you sanctimonious blowhard. Go get offended on behalf of things you don’t believe in yourself somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/143 "2017-04-13T17:06:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Piss off, you sanctimonious blowhard. Go get offended on behalf of things you don’t believe in yourself somewhere else. Right. Listen to the moderator. The SDMB is no place to encourage respect for someone else’s beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/144 "2017-04-13T17:50:35Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > That page also describes the Germans as using “toxic smoke.” All smoke is toxic, as far as I am aware. The Allies, at the time, were using white phosphorus munitions. In addition to their pyrotechnic effects, WP munitions produce dense clouds of smoke. Although research is sparse, the literature seems to lean toward that smoke is bad for you. We’re the Allies, therefore, using chemical weapons? > > [White Phosphorus Smoke - Toxicity of Military Smokes and Obscurants - NCBI Bookshelf](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK224560/?report=reader) > > I have no desire to defend Spicer or the Nazis. However, I think we should be cautious about defining chemical weapons too broadly. This is the interesting factual aspect of the thread IMO. It seems reports of the Germans using ‘poison gas’ per se are from the Soviets. None of the references seem to report the details from the German side. The Germans in turn reported isolated incidents of the Soviets using chemical weapons against them, though their higher command was never convinced it was a systematic effort which needed to be responded to. But besides claim/counter-claim it’s clear in each sides’ accounts that generals on both sides _proposed_ using chemical weapons, in the narrow sense of persistent agents, but were again turned down on both sides by higher authority. As to smoke generating chemicals, there were different kinds. White Phosphorous was one and definitely lethal though mainly by burning. But other types like for example so called Smoke (FS) rounds fired by US tanks used chlorosulfonic acid sulphur trioxide smoke. This isn’t as incendiary as WP but is an irritant and potentially fatal in high enough concentration, as in an enclosed space. US tanks would sometimes fire those rounds against German ones they could not penetrate with their AP ammunition and, besides temporarily blinding the target tank, hope the smoke was pulled into the enemy tank’s ventilation system forcing the crew to abandon it, since it would not have as great an effect out in the open. This apparently sometimes worked and the Germans were naturally offended by it. Like you say, you can extend ‘chemical weapon’ until it begins to lose clear meaning. I think this is true both as to effect of non-persistent agents of ambiguous toxicity, as well as how clear it is ‘mainline’ chemical weapons were used if after all the time since WWII we’re still relying on one side’s accounts of what it claimed the other did in a few cases. However, using gas to commit mass murder of confined civilians while arguably distinct from battlefield use is close enough, and horrific enough when done on the scale the Nazi’s did, to make it really stupid to refer even obliquely to the Nazi’s as somehow less bad in respect of ‘chemical weapons’ than Assad. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/145 "2017-04-13T17:58:10Z")
When will Spicer and [others](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/larry-pittman-lincoln-hitler_us_58eedc2ce4b0da2ff85e0d71) learn that Godwin’s Law teaches us that those who invoke the dreaded name always get bitten in the ass by it? Dumb, dumb, dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/146 "2017-04-13T18:01:28Z")
Huh, and I’m a practicing Catholic, and I still didn’t think **elucidator** ’s post was at all offensive. Now, maybe if he had said that he knows it’s not so, that might have been a little offensive… but how can anyone take offense at “I don’t believe that…”? ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/147 "2017-04-13T18:20:08Z")
_“Get in line in that processional Step into that small confessional There the man that’s got religion’ll Tell you if your sin’s original If it is try playing it safer Drink the wine and chew the wafer 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 Time to transubstantiate!”_ Thank you, Tom Lehrer. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/148 "2017-04-13T18:24:34Z")
Had a cousin in Texas who’s most blistering curse was “My head hurts, my feet stink, and I don’t love Jesus!” Rather a good person, over all. Could hit a beer can with a hunting rifle at further range than anyone in the family. But every time they went out to the deer lease, he always missed. Damndest thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/149 "2017-04-13T18:55:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Shirley, you’re joking. It turns out he was not joking and you really should not call him Shirley. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/150 "2017-04-13T19:38:12Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > You could very well be right, but I guess I’m more of a benefit-of-a-doubt guy and don’t ascribe to malice what could more simply be explained by a brain fart or incompetence. If you’ve missed the malice behind Spicer’s job performance then you’re not really paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/151 "2017-04-13T23:41:38Z")
Melissa McCarthy, you’re up. Do it right. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/152 "2017-04-14T00:14:34Z")
[Spicerize your name](http://www.smh.com.au/world/spicerize-my-name-how-white-house-press-secretary-sean-spicer-would-say-your-name-20170216-gue6bh.html) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/153 "2017-04-14T04:02:00Z")
Saw this on facebook. > [@](#): > > Pepsi: That was the biggest PR blunder of the week, year maybe. > > United: Hold my beer. > > Sean Spicer: LEEEEEEEEEERROOOOOOOY JEEEENNNNNNKINS! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/154 "2017-04-14T04:35:10Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > Right. Listen to the moderator. The SDMB is no place to encourage respect for someone else’s beliefs. The Pit sure isn’t the place to be sanctimonious. You can piss off too. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/155 "2017-04-14T04:39:16Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > If you’ve missed the malice behind Spicer’s job performance then you’re not really paying attention. Heinlein’s Razor: “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don’t rule out malice.” The thing is that Spicer’s incompetence allows his malice to show through. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/156 "2017-04-14T05:03:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The Pit sure isn’t the place to be sanctimonious. You can piss off too. You seem unhappy. Maybe I can help. Did you know “colibri” can mean “hummingbird?” Isn’t that a happy thought? And…second swing and a miss, that has nothing to do with the thread, or the rules, or anything else but the sheer will to be abusive for its own sake. You may want to look up “sanctimonious:” the definition doesn’t include the word “wrong.” You may also want to re-examine The Pit. Don’t care much about the gratuitous slap at the Eucharist during Holy Week. Personally I think it’s slightly rude and badly timed but I figure anyone who does that is willing to bear the opprobrium. My comment was directed at your swooping in to slam **Scumpup** , an atheist who also thought the way I do but offered a couple of pretty mild comments designed (I thought) to discourage such. Until you showed up, it seemed that free speech (on either part) might win out. You’re right: incompetence is a poor disguise for malice. And vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/157 "2017-04-14T05:14:53Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > You seem unhappy. Maybe I can help. Might you be having a cactus lying aboot that he can fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/158 "2017-04-14T12:22:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Piss off, you sanctimonious blowhard. Go get offended on behalf of things you don’t believe in yourself somewhere else. Go fuck a food processor. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/159 "2017-04-14T14:29:50Z")
Hey, anybody seen Jesus today? He’s not returning my texts! ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254/160 "2017-04-14T14:58:59Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > Right. Listen to the moderator. The SDMB is no place to encourage respect for someone else’s beliefs. In any case, **The BBQ Pit** certainly isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adolf-hitler-didnt-use-chemical-weapons/784254.md?page=9)