# Adopted child discovered to have been abducted as baby. Who should get custody? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 8, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627 "2012-07-08T20:38:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/21 "2012-07-09T07:30:24Z")
I think the best interests of the child trump anything else. The kid has two parents who love him, and seem to be raising him well; he should stay with him. That said, the biological father should have certain rights, including the right to be a part of his child’s life. Frankly, the more parents, the merrier. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/22 "2012-07-09T07:59:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Or maybe just that they weren’t but _were_ bent on having a child. My thought is that they may have realized that they were essentially buying a baby, but didn’t have a clue there was murder involved. No, they’d have no reason to assume the biological mother had been murdered, but about two seconds of thought will tell anyone that a market where babies can be bought and sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars will necessarily cause bad things to happen. Someone who knows that and doesn’t care as long as they get what they want doesn’t sound like a very good person, desperate for a baby or not. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/23 "2012-07-09T11:03:04Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You said she attacked a pregnant lady and stole the baby? How does a crack head perform a C-Section and steal a fetus? Seems like a specialized skill that the average crack head wouldn’t have. There have been actual cases of amateur c-sections to steal babies. Apparently, if you don’t care about the bio-mom surviving, it’s not that difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/24 "2012-07-09T11:53:06Z")
Judging Amy had this type of case. The mother from whom the baby had been stolen searched ceaselessly for like 12 years. Amy gave the kid to her, end of story. The thing bugged me for years. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/25 "2012-07-09T11:56:54Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Judging Amy had this type of case. The mother from whom the baby had been stolen searched ceaselessly for like 12 years. Amy gave the kid to her, end of story. The thing bugged me for years. It makes me wonder about the biological parent. I can understand wanting to be a part of their child’s life but knowing that their child is adjusted to someone else and still preferring them to live with you seems so cruel. And at ten or twelve, the child is a virtual stranger to their biological parent. Is being told “this child is biologically related to you” really strong enough for a parent to automatically form an attachment to a stranger? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/26 "2012-07-09T13:37:04Z")
Kid should stay with the parents who raised him and have visitation rights with his biological father. If the father really loved him, he’d do this and not insist on tearing the child’s life to pieces. But I doubt that would happen. Most likely the father would want to assert his rights at the cost of the child’s happiness. : re-reads : Goodness gracious, that was cynical even for me. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/27 "2012-07-09T14:32:19Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Goodness gracious, that was cynical even for me. Cynical, yet realistic. There is a (distressingly common) type of parent who see children as means of self-fulfillment at best, or at worst, as property. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/28 "2012-07-09T15:25:23Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You said she attacked a pregnant lady and stole the baby? How does a crack head perform a C-Section and steal a fetus? Seems like a specialized skill that the average crack head wouldn’t have. Once the mother is dead, the specialized part consists of not cutting the baby. It’s nowhere near as hard as if you needed to patch the woman back up. I think the bio family screwed up by approaching things in a way that basically would be interpreted by the boy as an attack. I vote for “stays with the adoptive parents, visitation for the bio family”, but it would have been much smarter to try to move things via non-oppositional methods first. FTR, I know a somewhat similar situation (the youngest daughter of four turned out to be the bio-daughter of her father and of her mother’s sister); the girl went with her suddenly-maternal bio-mom but left that house on the day she turned 18 and appeared at her bio-aunt’s footsteps as soon as she could get on and off a plane, daddy dearest and bio-aunt having since divorced. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/29 "2012-07-09T15:33:59Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I suspect friend **Skald** spent his recent sabbatical drafting exam questions for law professors. > [snip] **Oak** , thanks for the legal analysis. I have a question. Was Scott’s adoption even legal? The person who signed away parental rights wasn’t his real mother, after all. Also, what’s a GAL? > [@MrDibble](#): > > The bio dad should get legal custody, with the proviso that the kid has reasonable access to his adoptive parents (so no moving towns or such). Are you speaking from a legal standpoint, or a moral one? Because while I can understand the argument that the father has a legal right to void the adoption, I think doing so, or seeking primary custody when the kid opposes it, is immoral. He’s putting his own desires (however primal) ahead of his child’s needs. That is the antithesis of a father’s duty. > [@](#): > > Morally, while the kid’s wishes should be respected, he is still, after all, a kid. It would be different if his dad was a deadbeat or something, but he (by the OP) seems like a good guy who just didn’t know. Plus the wealthy dad is materially better for the kid’s future, even if he’s too young to see the benefits of that. :rolleyes: Yes, better Scott live with a rich stranger who doesn’t care what he, Scott, wants, or who is loves, than with two people who have loved and cared for him since intimacy. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > My thoughts exactly, the child should go back to his biological father or grandparents or a guardian that doesn’t see him as a commodity to be bought and sold. Rhymer Rules 7, 12, and 19 all prohibit me from replying to this. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Kid should stay with the parents who raised him and have visitation rights with his biological father. If the father really loved him, he’d do this and not insist on tearing the child’s life to pieces. > > But I doubt that would happen. Most likely the father would want to assert his rights at the cost of the child’s happiness. > > : re-reads : > > Goodness gracious, that was cynical even for me. You misspelled _sadly but accurately realistic_ in that last sentence, Mika. Please check the spell-checker thingie on your interwebs doohickey. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/30 "2012-07-09T15:43:00Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > \*\* > > You misspelled _sadly but accurately realistic_ in that last sentence, Mika. Please check the spell-checker thingie on your interwebs doohickey. > [@Alessan](#): > > Cynical, yet realistic. There is a (distressingly common) type of parent who see children as means of self-fulfillment at best, or at worst, as property. Both of you are correct, but…Just because it is that way doesn’t mean I have to be that cynical. I’d like not to be, if possible. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/31 "2012-07-09T15:46:33Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > **Oak** , thanks for the legal analysis. I have a question. Was Scott’s adoption even legal? The person who signed away parental rights wasn’t his real mother, after all. > > Also, what’s a GAL? I think there are arguments either way. In my state, an adoption is ordinarily non-contestable six months after being “finalized”. This one has been in place for years, and undoing it has some potential to harm the child. On the other hand, the father may not have been validly served, and the mother did not consent, so maybe the adoption is void. I suspect the latter argument would prevail in my local court, and then we’d perform the custody analysis as noted above. A GAL is a\* Guardian ad Litem\*, a lawyer appointed by the court (but paid by the parties) to investigate and represent the best interest of the child…which may or may not be what any of the other parties to the lawsuit want. In my state, you have have to receive annual training to be certified as a GAL. I’m considering obtaining this certification in the near future. In my state, a GAL is mandatory in custody cases with allegations of abuse or neglect, and in contested adoptions. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/32 "2012-07-09T15:49:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Also, what’s a GAL? Guardian ad litem. > **[Legal guardian | Guardian ad litem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_ad_litem#Guardian_ad_litem)** > > The Latin legal term ad litem means "for the lawsuit" or "for the legal proceeding". A guardian ad litem is thus someone appointed to represent in court the interests of a person too vulnerable to represent themselves, typically due to youth or mental incapacity. > Guardianship is not federally regulated in the United States; therefore, states vary widely in how they address and manage guardianship cases. > Guardians ad litem (GsAL) are persons appointed by the court to represent "the best interest... ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/33 "2012-07-09T15:50:10Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > A GAL is a\* Guardian ad Litem\*, a lawyer appointed by the court to investigate and represent the best interest of the child…which may or may not be what any of the other parties to the lawsuit want. In my state, you have have to receive annual training to be certified as a GAL. I’m considering obtaining this certification in the near future. Merci. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/34 "2012-07-09T19:24:04Z")
Another facet of this that would have to be addressed is how culpable are the adoptive parents in the murder and kidnapping of Scott? Ater all, regardless of what they intended, it was thier actions in trying to buy a baby that precipitated the murder and kidnapping and they have benefitted from those criminal actions. In no way would this ever trump the bio-Dad’s rights. Just because they participated in this kidnapping unknowingly, does not make it any less of a kidnapping, nor does it justify the wrongful adoption and fraud they participated in. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/35 "2012-07-09T19:44:40Z")
I _may_ be a little biased here (as an adoptive parent) but in looking at my 7 and 8 year old who have only been with us for two and a half years I have to say they should stay with their adoptive parents and the adoptive parents should work towards developing a relationship between the kid and their bio-dad. My kids have never (in their memory) even met their bio-dad. If he suddenly showed up and tried to take custody, they would freak the fuck out. Of course, I think that it would be good for them to have a relationship with their bio-dad. Heck, he might even turn into a third parent given some time and patience on all our parts (the kids, my husband and I and the bio-dad). To be honest, though, I know that my husband and I could do it (not that it wouldn’t be hard) because we love our kids so much, I highly doubt that the bio-dad would have the patience or committment necessary. However, since we did have all the rights terminated in all the correct ways, we WOULD be in a position of making all the decisions since we are their legal guardians. (And, yes, I have thought about this. I have also thought about what to do if the bio-mom should show up and have worked at having pat answers to all the kids questions about either of them that paint them in a good light where possible. It’s part of my job.) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/36 "2012-07-09T19:48:35Z")
> [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > Another facet of this that would have to be addressed is how culpable are the adoptive parents in the murder and kidnapping of Scott? Not at all, I’d say. As I recall the episode (and OP), the parents were paying the broker for his services, and the broker was supposed to be paying the adoptive mother. They had no interaction with the murderer at all, and her actions were not predictable. > [@](#): > > Ater all, regardless of what they intended, it was thier actions in trying to buy a baby that precipitated the murder and kidnapping and they have benefitted from those criminal actions. > > In no way would this ever trump the bio-Dad’s rights. Just because they participated in this kidnapping unknowingly, does not make it any less of a kidnapping, nor does it justify the wrongful adoption and fraud they participated in. You know, I only care a tiny bit about the bio-father’s rights. I care about what’s best for the child, and I’m not persuaded that he cares about his kid’s well-being at all. > [@perfectparanoia](#): > > I _may_ be a little biased here (as an adoptive parent) but in looking at my 7 and 8 year old who have only been with us for two and a half years I have to say they should stay with their adoptive parents and the adoptive parents should work towards developing a relationship between the kid and their bio-dad. I would call you “correct” rather than biased. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/37 "2012-07-09T20:08:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I would call you “correct” rather than biased. Aren’t hypotheticals not supposed to have a ‘correct’ answer? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/38 "2012-07-09T20:26:52Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > Aren’t hypotheticals not supposed to have a ‘correct’ answer? [Since I didn’t make up the situation](http://lawandorder.wikia.com/wiki/Stolen), I feel free to take a firmer stand than usual. In many of the hypos, I admit, I just play devil’s advocate. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/39 "2012-07-10T07:49:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are you speaking from a legal standpoint, or a moral one? Because while I can understand the argument that the father has a legal right to void the adoption, I think doing so, or seeking primary custody when the kid opposes it, is immoral. He’s putting his own desires (however primal) ahead of his child’s needs. That is the antithesis of a father’s duty. Personally? I’d consider it immoral to leave my son with people who are financially and otherwise irresponsible enough to spend two years salary on a child they don’t completely know the origin of. Yes, yes, they love him and he loves them. How could he not, it’s all he knows. The fact that the child wants to stay with his adoptive parents is not a trump argument to me. He’s 12 years old, he doesn’t know any better. They could be kitten-eating cultists and they’d _still_ be all he knows, so he’d still say they were his choice. > [@](#): > > Yes, better Scott live with a rich stranger who doesn’t care what he, Scott, wants, or who is loves, than with two people who have loved and cared for him since intimacy. I’m assuming “infancy” there. Or I’d get Scott out of there faster than you could say “Cesario”! I got the impression from the OP that the father does care _about_ Scott (which, IMO, is way more important than _what Scott wants_ - again, Scott is _twelve_.), but \*if \*he doesn’t care about Scott, I’d change my opinion. Note that I said Scott has free access to his adoptive parents. I’d even be OK with him living with them, if his biodad then gets free access. I just want his dad to be making the official decisions in his life, since his adoptive parents are, to me, irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2012, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/40 "2012-07-10T08:25:56Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I got the impression from the OP that the father does care _about_ Scott (which, IMO, is way more important than _what Scott wants_ - again, Scott is _twelve_.), but \*if \*he doesn’t care about Scott, I’d change my opinion. The father doesn’t know Scott when he reenters the picture, though; he cares about “his son” but that’s a nebulous entity, it’s not the real, actual boy called “Scott”. And he wasn’t smart about how to go from hearing the first existed to getting to know the second. I wanted to get away from my parents since I was quite little, but if someone had swooped in with cops and said “I’m your dad and I’m taking you away!”, he would have been lucky to get away with nothing more serious than bites and bruises. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627.md?page=3)