# Adopted child discovered to have been abducted as baby. Who should get custody? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 8, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627 "2012-07-08T20:38:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/81 "2012-07-11T20:07:32Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > The best interests of the CHILD. Not of the biological parents. And these kids were actually stolen. I’m all for the best interests of the child. I would be interested in more context from the Argentinian case - because the situation in many cases involved the **death** of the bio parents, and not everyone has living grandparents (or grandparents in good health), one of my questions is how many of the 31 who remained with their adoptive families did so even when the bio parents were still living? What I’m wondering is if the courts would have mandated more returns to bio families if more of the bio parents were alive. Despite my strong feelings about the return of kidnapped children to their biological parents, I don’t have particularly strong feelings about returning them to, say, biological cousins. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/82 "2012-07-11T20:23:16Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I took her point to be that the biological parent is likely to ruin any chance of having a healthy, fulfilling, _good_ relationship with the kid by pursuing legal custody. Yes, the bio-father probably has the legal right to custody, but what he hopefully desires – to be the kid’s _dad_, not just his sperm donor – isn’t open to him anymore. Through no fault of the kid or the bio-father’s, it’s too late. The kid is going to perceive the bio-dad as a stranger who is ripping him away from his real parents, and always resent him. > > I also take issue with the notion that the child’s contentment is irrelevant. Possessive case aside, one’s children are not one’s property; they are persons. A father’s job is to do what is in his children’s best interest, not what the parent wants. Yes, that can sometime involve taking the kid out of a situation the kid prefers – say requiring a kid to move with you when you change jobs and cities. But in this case, there’s no good to be done by taking custody, because the parent-child relationship between the bio-dad and the kid is chimerical. It could only be restored with a time machine, and this ain’t that kind of thread. How are the adoptive parents not also being dicks? I mean, how does this conversation make them look: “Well, son. Today you are 18. There’s something we need to tell you. You know you were adopted? Well, when you were 12 we found out that you had been stolen. You biological father found out about you, and was desperate to form a relationship with you. But you were 12, and we thought it would be stressful for you to deal with having more than just us as parents. So when he approached us and asked if we would work with him to establish some sort of joint custody, we made it really clear that if he did that, we’d fight him tooth and nail: you’re our boy, and no one else gets a share in that. We made sure he understood that if he tried to have a relationship with you, we’d resist it and the whole thing would be traumatic and painful for you. Because he loved you, he agreed to leave without ever talking to you.” Does that situation really seem like it is resolved in the best interest of the child? Having lost the chance to have a relationship in the first decade of his life, is denying him the chance to have a relationship in the second half of his life really the best choice? It’d be easier, yes, but is it better? Why is the biological parent the bad guy for wanting custody, but the adoptive parents aren’t bad guys for not wanting to share it? I have a friend with a younger half sister she’d never met, and never will. Her parents decided it would be less disruptive, less confusing, less complicated, not to tell her about the girl. And all that is true. But to me it never seemed like a choice made in her best interest. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/83 "2012-07-12T09:14:06Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Now we’re getting into actual kidnappers which is a whole different kettle of fish, isn’t it? I don’t think the OP started out with actual kidnappers,. Nope, just fencers of kidnapped goods. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/84 "2012-07-12T13:31:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > How are the adoptive parents not also being dicks? I mean, how does this conversation make them look: > > “Well, son. Today you are 18. There’s something we need to tell you. You know you were adopted? Well, when you were 12 we found out that you had been stolen. You biological father found out about you, and was desperate to form a relationship with you. But you were 12, and we thought it would be stressful for you to deal with having more than just us as parents. So when he approached us and asked if we would work with him to establish some sort of joint custody, we made it really clear that if he did that, we’d fight him tooth and nail: you’re our boy, and no one else gets a share in that. We made sure he understood that if he tried to have a relationship with you, we’d resist it and the whole thing would be traumatic and painful for you. Because he loved you, he agreed to leave without ever talking to you.” > > Does that situation really seem like it is resolved in the best interest of the child? Having lost the chance to have a relationship in the first decade of his life, is denying him the chance to have a relationship in the second half of his life really the best choice? It’d be easier, yes, but is it better? Why is the biological parent the bad guy for wanting custody, but the adoptive parents aren’t bad guys for not wanting to share it? > > I have a friend with a younger half sister she’d never met, and never will. Her parents decided it would be less disruptive, less confusing, less complicated, not to tell her about the girl. And all that is true. But to me it never seemed like a choice made in her best interest. Whoa-whoa! I was thinking of the typical adoptive situation today. Where (even if it were shady) you have to go through training, etc. If they were at all halfway decent parents, the kid would already know he was adopted. This should never come as a surprise. It is basically considered to be emotionally abusive these days not to tell your kid. As to the other stuff. I wll respond shortly. Need time to type a proper post. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/85 "2012-07-12T13:43:52Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > Whoa-whoa! I was thinking of the typical adoptive situation today. Where (even if it were shady) you have to go through training, etc. If they were at all halfway decent parents, the kid would already know he was adopted. This should never come as a surprise. It is basically considered to be emotionally abusive these days not to tell your kid. > > As to the other stuff. I wll respond shortly. Need time to type a proper post. Not that they keep the adoption secret (look at the first line), but the fact that the child was kidnapped and that his biological family did want a relationship when they discovered him. Denying a kid a relationship with their biological family and holding the kid’s happiness and stability as a hostage (“pursue this and we will fight it and he will suffer”) is a thousand times worse, IMHO, than wanting to share custody of your own child. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/86 "2012-07-12T13:57:19Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I hope I am not coming across as too aggressive: like delphica, I am enjoying the conversation. > > I can’t see how it would seem like the best thing for my kid. Unless there was a good reason why I wouldn’t be a good parent–a reason that would have compelled me to seek out and vet adoptive parents on my own–I just don’t see myself able to take it on faith that strangers would make the best choices for my kid. What if they bully him? What if they smoke dope with him? What if they are racist or sexist? What if they push him too hard to get into Harvard? To not have any input, any right to even communicate with him–that wouldn’t be best for him, even if it were easiest. > > I guess I would feel I couldn’t be sure he’d keep being happy and thriving, and couldn’t stand to lose the right to monitor that. I would do everything in my power to minimize the disruption–not move them or anything–but I couldn’t just slink off in the night and hope it all worked out. I think it’s just because I have had so much training, counselling and experience with attachment disorders. Even if a child is in a somewhat screwed up situation, if they are attached (in the clinical sense, not that they like them) to their caregivers, removing from that situation WILL have detrimental effects on them. Sometimes, these are minor (especially if they are younger) but sometimes it means they are NEVER able to form attachments to ANYONE. Even later in life. So, even though I am a pretty good parent (or at least I try to be), I know that it would have to be pretty bad in their existing situation for me to possibly even begin to make up for the psychological pain that disruption would cause them. Again, I would really, REALLY want to form an attachment with the child. However, unless I saw significant evidence that the child was being mistreated, I would have to give the final say to the adoptive parents. > [@](#): > > I really disagree with this. I had a friend in high school who had the pretty standard Sundays/2 weeks in the summer visitation schedule with her Dad. Once she hit 12 or so, she started skipping some of those visits and her dad didn’t push the issue. What arose was a situation where her mom felt emotionally involved with whether or not her daughter “chose” to go see her dad, and there really arose a lot of pressure to chose not to see her father, and a lot of guilt when she did. Had they all stuck to the visitation schedule, they all would have been happier: the mom wouldn’t have felt like her daughter was rejecting her when she went to her dad, the dad would have had a better relationship with his daughter, and my friend wouldn’t have felt that relationship with one parent meant rejecting the other. A 12 year old who suddenly discovers he has more parents than he knew can’t be expected to decide then if he wants a relationship with all of them, and it’s unfair to put him in the position where he has to choose. Better to let the courts create opportunities for a relationship to grow or not over time. Maybe I just don’t trust the courts at this stage? I guess if the adoptive parents were complete, unyielding jerks (in which case, I would be concerned about the child anyway) they should provide their child with the ability to see/have a relationship with their bio-parent. If they didn’t, I wouldn’t have faith that the child was ‘happy’ and ‘thriving.’ Then I would probably pursue something with Chilren’s Aid and possibly get the courts involved. > [@](#): > > And I guess I think that no matter what, the child is going to be negatively affected: the potential negative effect of not knowing me and his first father has to be weighed against the potential negative effect of a court battle. The potential negative effect of a disrupted life has to be weighed against the potential negative effect of his second parents making mistakes, and, honestly, the potential negative effect of knowing his first parents did not fight to know him–which I think would feel like an abandonment or a rejection. For the child, there is very little negative effect from them not knowing the birth parents. As long as they know their story (and what happened), kids seem to be able to deal with it okay. I guess I just see a utopian situation where the adopted parents would work with the bio-parents. I know that if my kids dad showed up on my front porch tomorrow that I would try to find a way to include him in their lives. (Their mom, not so much but keep in mind that they were removed from her custody for some pretty solid reasons). We have just learned to be really open when it comes to our kids. They were in a foster home for 2 1/2 years and they formed a very strong bond with their foster mom. She couldn’t adopt them (already had four kids) which was sad for all involved. We still talk to her and so do the kids. We go for visits. They have come here for visits. None of this was anything we were REQUIRED to do, it was all in the best interest of our kids. Granted, it is really hard. Especially when they had only been with us for a short while. They obviously had a stronger bond with foster mom than with either of us. It hurt. But it was the RIGHT thing to do. So, we did it. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/87 "2012-07-12T13:58:28Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Not that they keep the adoption secret (look at the first line), but the fact that the child was kidnapped and that his biological family did want a relationship when they discovered him. Denying a kid a relationship with their biological family and holding the kid’s happiness and stability as a hostage (“pursue this and we will fight it and he will suffer”) is a thousand times worse, IMHO, than wanting to share custody of your own child. See post above. I just can’t see anyone who gave two shits about their kid doing this. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/88 "2012-07-12T17:03:11Z")
Pat and Shawn should retain custody but Scott should have visitation rights. Unlike typical stolen goods, a stolen baby has a mind of its own, and as much as I hate the common retort that we need to do what’s best for the child, in this case the child is old enough to be severely affected if he’s removed from the only parents he’s ever known. If he was younger, say, 5 or under, I’d say the kid can be taken away from Pat and Shawn with little damage. Pat and Shawn needs to be compensated though, and maybe skipped to the head of the adoption line if such a thing exists. Ideally, they can try working out a solution involving California’s proposed bill that allows [kids to have 3 parents](http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/07/06/california_bill_to_allow_three_parents.html). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/89 "2012-07-12T18:04:28Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > So let’s switch it around. YOU are now the adoptive parents. You’ve had this baby since he was eight months old. He is now fifteen. He is your kid and you love him to death and you’ve done everything you can for him. > > Along comes a woman who has a rightful biological claim to the baby - can prove it. She demands you give the baby back RIGHT FUCK NOW. Your son clings to you and says “Momma, I don’t want to leave. _You’re_ my momma. I don’t know her.” > > Will you give up that child just because bio momma showed up? I would spend every cent I had, every penny I could borrow, go anywhere, do almost literally anything, to keep my son safe by my side. I think I would feel better about myself if I could say “except murder”. But I wouldn’t mean it. Anyone who wants to take my children away from me is Enemy. Go away, now, and don’t come back. Or I will hurt you. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/90 "2012-07-12T18:22:10Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If he was younger, say, 5 or under, I’d say the kid can be taken away from Pat and Shawn with little damage. Pat and Shawn needs to be compensated though, and maybe skipped to the head of the adoption line if such a thing exists. How do you get compensated for losing your kid? Just get another? They aren’t interchangeable, you know. Pat and Shawn would not be in a position to get a new child. They would grieve the loss of the child they had. Heck, I have only been with my kids for two and a half years and if they were suddenly not there…I can’t even think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/91 "2012-07-12T18:54:42Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Nope, just fencers of kidnapped goods. A fence is a person who buys stolen items to sell to others. That doesn’t apply here. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/92 "2012-07-12T19:08:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I would spend every cent I had, every penny I could borrow, go anywhere, do almost literally anything, to keep my son safe by my side. > > I think I would feel better about myself if I could say “except murder”. But I wouldn’t mean it. > > Anyone who wants to take my children away from me is Enemy. Go away, now, and don’t come back. > > Or I will hurt you. I guess I’m not sure whether you’re talking to the adoptive parents or the putative biological parents or both, here. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/93 "2012-07-12T21:53:17Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > How do you get compensated for losing your kid? Just get another? They aren’t interchangeable, you know. > > Pat and Shawn would not be in a position to get a new child. They would grieve the loss of the child they had. > > Heck, I have only been with my kids for two and a half years and if they were suddenly not there…I can’t even think about it. You’re right. I’m just trying to think of the least bad scenario though. It would really really suck for Pat and Shawn, but people who mistakenly buy stolen goods usually have to return the goods even if they bought it thinking it was legitimate. With a child, both adoptive and biological parents have a claim. Our country prizes biological over non-biological, and sometimes I think that’s wrong, but in this case, I can’t help feeling that Simon is harmed even more than Pat/Shawn ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/94 "2012-07-12T23:10:22Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > You’re right. I’m just trying to think of the least bad scenario though. It would really really suck for Pat and Shawn, but people who mistakenly buy stolen goods usually have to return the goods even if they bought it thinking it was legitimate. > > With a child, both adoptive and biological parents have a claim. Our country prizes biological over non-biological, and sometimes I think that’s wrong, but in this case, I can’t help feeling that Simon is harmed even more than Pat/Shawn I don’t think you can draw that conclusion, but I also don’t think it matters. It’s impossible to resolve the situation without hurting one or the other, and they’re adults. I’d say they balance each other out. (Well, yeah, there’s two persons on one side, but I’m willing to count Pat & Shawn as a unit.) But the kid is another matter. It’s possible to resolve the situation without doing harm to _him_, and that is what should matter. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/95 "2012-07-12T23:16:22Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > See post above. I just can’t see anyone who gave two shits about their kid doing this. There’s a lot of people who don’t give two shits about a kid, particular individuals that feel they have the right to buy children and have their birth certificates altered. I disagree heavily with your assumption that “there is very little negative effect from them not knowing the birth parents”. I have known far too many suicidal former adoptees. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/96 "2012-07-12T23:23:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t think you can draw that conclusion, but I also don’t think it matters. It’s impossible to resolve the situation without hurting one or the other, and they’re adults. I’d say they balance each other out. (Well, yeah, there’s two persons on one side, but I’m willing to count Pat & Shawn as a unit.) But the kid is another matter. It’s possible to resolve the situation without doing harm to _him_, and that is what should matter. Is it? How is denying a kid knowledge of or access to some of his family not doing him harm? Look at the example I gave above: my friend’s parents decided to never tell her that she had a younger half-sister because they thought it was “resolv[ing] the situation without doing harm to [her].” Would you agree with that choice? How is denying knowledge of an additional parent not the same thing? perfect paranoia, I am not ignoring you, just still thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/97 "2012-07-12T23:33:49Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Is it? How is denying a kid knowledge of or access to some of his family not doing him harm? Look at the example I gave above: my friend’s parents decided to never tell her that she had a younger half-sister because they thought it was “resolv[ing] the situation without doing harm to [her].” Would you agree with that choice? How is denying knowledge of an additional parent not the same thing? > > perfect paranoia, I am not ignoring you, just still thinking. You are right to call me out on writing “no harm.” I should have written “minimal harm.” And by that I don’t mean “very little harm,” but “as little harm as possible.” I think that the least harm will be done to the child by leaving him with the parents who have raised him since infancy. Ripping a ten-year-old from his parents is going to be very traumatic, and I see very little upside to it. Giving the bio-dad visitation? Sure. Sole custody? No effing way. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/98 "2012-07-12T23:55:51Z")
I gotta say that even though it is the scenario laid out in the OP, the biological vs. adopted issue is a little bit of a red herring. I think everyone would have the same opinion (all our different opinions) if, instead of the pregnant mother being murdered, a legally-adopted baby was kidnapped from his adoptive parents, sold to a shady lawyer, illegally adopted out to a loving family, then found years later. Now, my question about the bio-dad in the OP–if, instead of not knowing he was going to be a father, bio-dad had known and was happy and looking forward to it, had been heartbroken by the murder and was in agony about the kidnapping, and had spent the last ten years searching ceaselessly for his son, would anyone’s opinion on custody change? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/99 "2012-07-13T00:42:49Z")
perfectparanoia, I think we basically agree on the extremes: 1. If the second parents are totally willing to help build a relationship, and offer unfettered access. basically do nothing legally but start attending a lot of school events and hanging out and see what develops. 2. If the second parents go absolutely apeshit and say “stay away from our son. Don’t ever try to contact him. He must never know that he wasn’t voluntarily surrendered. If you ever approach him in any way we will do everything in our power to legally destroy you”, then it’s appropriate to take some sort of legal steps. It’s never best for the child for the first parents to “slink away in the night”. Is that a fair characterization? I do think the second scenario would be more common than you think: I have known more than a couple adoptive parents who were absolutely determined that their adoption be closed, and in fact considered it a deal breaker. No matter what the circumstances, I really think some otherwise decent people would feel very threatened by a “real” parent showing up, even if that “real” parent was prepared to be reasonable. I think where we disagree may be all the cases in the middle: a set of second parents that say they will allow visitation, but exert a lot of pressure on the kid not to bond, or who restrict important information about the kid, or who allow only very limited, highly supervised visitation (like “you can come to our house for dinner 4 times a year”), or who engage in parenting practices that while not technically abusive are highly problematic. In these sorts of cases I can see pursuing legal remedies simply insure I continue to have meaningful access. But again, I think we largely agree on what’s absolutely optimum (the first case), we just differ on how common we think it would be. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627/100 "2012-07-13T00:45:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You are right to call me out on writing “no harm.” I should have written “minimal harm.” And by that I don’t mean “very little harm,” but “as little harm as possible.” > > I think that the least harm will be done to the child by leaving him with the parents who have raised him since infancy. Ripping a ten-year-old from his parents is going to be very traumatic, and I see very little upside to it. > > Giving the bio-dad visitation? Sure. Sole custody? No effing way. But what if the adoptive parents make that the only possible option–they refuse to work with the first dad. THEY are the ones holding the kid’s happiness hostage. Isn’t willfully separating the child from his other parent (once they know he exist) as wrong as the original kidnapping? And once they show they are willing to maintain the kidnapping, is the dad really the bad guy for calling their bluff? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adopted-child-discovered-to-have-been-abducted-as-baby-who-should-get-custody/627627.md?page=6)