# Adoption: Why say Mom and Dad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506 "2010-01-19T02:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/181 "2010-01-20T18:37:49Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because those of who value our extended families like to know when the adopters are around. We like to keep a close eye on all our young family members in case the adopters decide they need another child. You can’t be serious here. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/182 "2010-01-20T18:38:18Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > Stunning. > Shines a BRIGHT spotlight on YOUR culture, which evidently, includes baby stealing. My culture isn’t the one that takes babies from their mothers, gives them to strangers, changes their names, and denies their heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/183 "2010-01-20T18:38:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Because those of who value our extended families like to know when the adopters are around. We like to keep a close eye on all our young family members in case the adopters decide they need another child. This is so breathtakingly insulting, and so impossible for someone to seriously believe, that I have no choice but to assume that you are not entering into this “debate” in good faith, and that you are not interesting in truly discussing the so-called issue that prompted you to post. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/184 "2010-01-20T18:40:05Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You don’t seem to be able to comprehend what it means to belong to a family, not just a mother and father. Family means generations stretching out across time and space. It’s a web of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., who are connected to you, who love and help you. And if your mother and father aren’t there or just not a good fit with you, it doesn’t matter because the family is there and will always be there and will help you find the place for you. Why is it that you think I don’t have extended family? I have aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., who are connected to me, who love and help me. If my mother & father weren’t there, there’s no doubt in my mind that there would be family who would have made a place for me in their home, as they would my brothers and sister, despite the fact that two of us are blood related to them and two of us aren’t. So, explain again why the genetic ties are so important? ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/185 "2010-01-20T18:40:39Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > That really, really bothers me. It sounds like using a child to fulfill adult desires, not what’s best for the child. Speaking of adult desires, funny how this statement seems to run counter to your sentiment in [this Roman Polanski thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533738&highlight=polanski) from a few months ago where you condone the rape of a 13 year old girl. Quoting **ZPG Zealot** : > [@](#): > > As for the child rape issue, for most of human existence once the secondary sexual characteristics arrive, females have been considered old enough for sex. So fulfilling a sicko adult desire by raping a kid is OK, but allowing an adopted kid to call you Mom or Dad “really bothers” you because it fulfills the desire to be a parent for those who cannot do so biologically? Also, why are so many _biological_ parents absent in your family? It is clear that for you adoption involves different emotions, customs, and definitions of familial relationships. Why aren’t you ok with that difference? It seems like what you’re doing here is trying to reconcile your experience by denigrating other people’s. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/186 "2010-01-20T18:41:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You can’t be serious here. Google Georgia Tann or Lila and Willam Young of the Ideal Maternity Home. There are plenty of modern day versions of them operating now. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/187 "2010-01-20T18:42:59Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > My culture isn’t the one that takes babies from their mothers, gives them to strangers, changes their names, and denies their heritage. Why are the parents in your family so quick to abandon their kids? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/188 "2010-01-20T18:43:00Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Google Georgia Tann or Lila and Willam Young of the Ideal Maternity Home. I’ll pass because you haven’t said a word about criminals or other outliers; you’re deliberately smearing everyone who decides to adopt. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/189 "2010-01-20T18:44:58Z")
Perhaps, really, it’s just the thinly disguised arrogance of pure blood, entitled to know, and have labeled, orphans, illegitimacy, and other wretched states, making one unclean, and worthy of some mild form of what constitutes contempt, no matter how you dress it up. So entitled to judging other’s lineages, long blind to the vileness of it. Snap out of it! This is the 21st century and you’re living among civilized people now, sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/190 "2010-01-20T18:45:04Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > My culture isn’t the one that takes babies from their mothers, gives them to strangers, changes their names, and denies their heritage. Neither is mine. My two children were abandoned by their birth mother.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/191 "2010-01-20T18:56:00Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Speaking of adult desires, funny how this statement seems to run counter to your sentiment in [this Roman Polanski thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533738&highlight=polanski) from a few months ago where you condone the rape of a 13 year old girl. > > Quoting **ZPG Zealot** : > So fulfilling a sicko adult desire by raping a kid is OK, but allowing an adopted kid to call you Mom or Dad “really bothers” you because it fulfills the desire to be a parent for those who cannot do so biologically? > > Also, why are so many _biological_ parents absent in your family? > > It is clear that for you adoption involves different emotions, customs, and definitions of familial relationships. Why aren’t you ok with that difference? It seems like what you’re doing here is trying to reconcile your experience by denigrating other people’s. Once again from the top, why MUST the adopted kid call you Mom or Dad? I’ve known plenty that didn’t want to. Why is it so insulting to admitt you didn’t give birth to a child? And what gave you the impression there were many biological parents absent in my family? I didn’t spend much time with my mother because our personalities weren’t a good match. She was very social. I would rather read. I was always better with my first aunt, so I spent most of my child/adult time with her. I became the legal guardian for my youngest brother because my father’s health wasn’t good and social services was trying to take him for adoption. I have medical rights for one of my nephews because his parents have jobs where they can’t easily drop everything when he takes a spill on a skateboard. At various times other young relatives have lived with me in a guardianship arrangement because their parents’ jobs involved traveling and they didn’t want to change schools or they like the school district where I live more. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/192 "2010-01-20T18:58:10Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Why are the parents in your family so quick to abandon their kids? How did you ever get that impression? Children are very much loved and cared for and they are allowed to use the proper titles for their relatives. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/193 "2010-01-20T18:59:27Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > How did you ever get that impression? Children are very much loved and cared for and they are allowed to use the proper titles for their relatives. See, we’re not so different…this is true of my family, as well! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/194 "2010-01-20T19:00:23Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Speaking of adult desires, funny how this statement seems to run counter to your sentiment in [this Roman Polanski thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533738&highlight=polanski) from a few months ago where you condone the rape of a 13 year old girl. > > Quoting **ZPG Zealot** : > So fulfilling a sicko adult desire by raping a kid is OK, but allowing an adopted kid to call you Mom or Dad “really bothers” you because it fulfills the desire to be a parent for those who cannot do so biologically? > > Also, why are so many _biological_ parents absent in your family? > > It is clear that for you adoption involves different emotions, customs, and definitions of familial relationships. Why aren’t you ok with that difference? It seems like what you’re doing here is trying to reconcile your experience by denigrating other people’s. I would consider taking a child away from their family, forcing them to call unrelated people Mom and Dad against their will, and denying their heritage, to be a daily mental rape. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/195 "2010-01-20T19:03:14Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > Neither is mine. > My two children were abandoned by their birth mother.:smack: And I suppose their biological mother just sprang forth from a divine egg with no parents or brothers and sisters of her own and was then able to miraculously self-fertilize herself (Hey, she must have had ovaries and testies what an amazing mutation)? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/196 "2010-01-20T19:04:12Z")
Where do you get this nonsense about children being “forced” to say mom and dad? ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/197 "2010-01-20T19:10:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And I suppose their biological mother just sprang forth from a divine egg with no parents or brothers and sisters of her own and was then able to miraculously self-fertilize herself (Hey, she must have had ovaries and testies what an amazing mutation)? Their bio mother herself was from the foster system. She relinquished her parental rights. One bio dad - incarcerated. Relinquished his parental rights. Other (presumed) bio dad, a 100% no-show. No one knows if he is dead or alive or even if he is the actual sperm donor. Any other questions, forth nail? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/198 "2010-01-20T19:14:54Z")
**ZPG** , what IS your culture? You say you were born in the US and spent fifteen years in (then) Yugoslavia. Is your family Slavic, Rom or something else? This is such an alien way of looking at things, to me. Adopters are child-stealers? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/199 "2010-01-20T19:16:59Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I would consider taking a child away from their family, forcing them to call unrelated people Mom and Dad against their will, and denying their heritage, to be a daily mental rape. The really nifty thing here is that you have **UTTERLY FAILED** to demonstrate that this bizarre characterization applies to the class of “adoptive parents” in any reasonable way. Your failure to do this is probably based in the fact that it’s batshit insane, and utterly false in every conceivable way. Your argument seems to be based mostly in hallucination, based on a few outlier cases that are completely unrepresentative of the class of adoptive relationships as a whole. It’s approimately as reasonable, rational, and accurate as arguing that all humans are named Willie Nelson, and “proving” this point by pointing at one or two guys who are in fact humans named Willie Nelson and extrapolating from them to the entire human race in grand fallacous fashion. Let’s put this really, really simply. You have no idea how adoption works in the real world. Your assumptions about it are flat wrong, and _so_ wrong that it makes you appear completely unhinged. You are probably _not_ completely unhinged, but your opinions on this matter make you appear this way. You should probably educate yourself as to how things work in reality in order to be able to present yourself better. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/200 "2010-01-20T19:42:07Z")
There simply is no way, NO WAY, that you can convinced me that a fully hinged person truly believes that adoptions occur by adoptive parents stealing children away from families, forcing those stolen children to suffer the “mental rape” of calling the parents “Mom” and “Dad,” and denying the stolen child access to the child’s “genetic heritage” (whatever the hell that is). No sane person believes that. Even if a person thinks that out-of-family adoption is not a good thing and that all children should be kept with biological relatives no matter the situation, the above belief is simply not rational. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506.md?page=11)