# Adoption: Why say Mom and Dad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506 "2010-01-19T02:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/61 "2010-01-19T19:13:21Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Well, it does make it more difficult to figure out what the actual relationship between the adult and the child is. Who needs to figure that out, exactly? Why is that relevant to anyone but the family in question? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/62 "2010-01-19T19:15:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > NO. And if you continue to hold this disingenuous position, I will begin to think that you are not here for a seious discussion. > > Many people feel that when they bring a child into their home as their own–the meaning of the word adopt–providing support, but also love, caring, discipline, nurturing, affection, play, healing, and everything else that one provides for one’s birth children, then the child should be allowed to respond to the parent (adoptive or birth) in the same way that any child born to them would respond to a parent. > > You are setting up arbitrary boundaries that most people do not employ and then expecting us to defend ourselves against your charges of not respecting boundaries. Another adopter per chance? Paying the bills is only one of the more obvious manifestations of doing all the necessary little things associated with training children to be functional adults. I’m clearly wondering why you think it is necessary to be called a parent to do this. And often it’s not a question of “allowing” the adoptee to respond to the adult as a parent, it’s the adopter forcing the child to call them mother or father when they do not want to. It strikes me as the act of someone that doesn’t really care about the child, only how they are perceived in the world. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/63 "2010-01-19T19:18:11Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Who needs to figure that out, exactly? Why is that relevant to anyone but the family in question? Teachers, cops, hospital personnel, depending on their religious tradiations anyone who has social contact with the family outside of a nod when passing, especially the people who have to interact with the child. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/64 "2010-01-19T19:18:41Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Who needs to figure that out, exactly? Why is that relevant to anyone but the family in question? My thoughts exactly. Obviously people close enough to the family are going to know anyway. If a random person overhears a little boy calling his stepmother “Mom” or his stepdad “Dad,” and assumes there’s a blood relationship…who cares, really? Who is this hurting? ETA: If you’re in a situation where those people need to know, you can tell them. Though to be honest, I’m not sure why you need to tell a teacher, “That’s little Tommy’s STEPmother, not his real mom.” ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/65 "2010-01-19T19:19:11Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Teachers, cops, hospital personnel, depending on their religious tradiations anyone who has social contact with the family outside of a nod when passing, especially the people who have to interact with the child. Uh…why? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/66 "2010-01-19T19:19:28Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Well, it does make it more difficult to figure out what the actual relationship between the adult and the child is. Unless one is an agent of the state child welfare department, who cares what the actual relationship is? Is this something you feel the need to keep tabs on, the bloodline of all the people you know and/or come across in your daily life? “Blood is thicker than water” is just an aphorism. What counts is how the child is loved, cared for and taught, and you don’t have to have contributed DNA to do well by a child under those criteria. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/67 "2010-01-19T19:23:12Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And often it’s not a question of “allowing” the adoptee to respond to the adult as a parent, it’s the adopter forcing the child to call them mother or father when they do not want to. It strikes me as the act of someone that doesn’t really care about the child, only how they are perceived in the world. Your vast experience leads you to this conclusion, eh? :rolleyes: This would be an assertion certain to cause controversy and drama on a message board, were one so inclined, but surely that can’t be your intention, right? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/68 "2010-01-19T19:23:19Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > We adopted our daughter through the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services foster care program. The birth mother was a mess: sexually abused by her step-father, eventually moved back in with him and her mother where he proceeds to abuse her daughter! That daughter and a son are taken from her and adopted by non-family members. She has two more kids that are taken away for neglect and adopted by non-family members. Then she got pregnant with our daughter and had her taken away shortly after her birth. > > We entered in to the foster program looking to adopt. During the process we had to maintain parental visits with the birth mother (the father was nowhere to be found) and she had to undergo “parenting classes” and have an assessment done of her ability to provide proper child care. Her evaluation said (and this is a direct quote from one of the psychologists) that “she doesn’t have the ability or emotional wherewithal to nurture a houseplant, let alone a child.” Her rights were terminated and we were able to finalize the adoption. > > Shortly afterwards, she got pregnant again! That baby was taken from her at the hospital. We would have been the first ones they would have called but we were not able to handle another baby at that time. Fortunately, our close friends were looking to adopt and were able to take that little girl home. > > What does all this mean? Well, our daughter has always known that she was adopted. She understands that she grew in another lady’s tummy (hey, she’s just turned 9) but that lady wasn’t able to take care of her so she came to us. She loves when we tell her the story about how she came to us. She knows that she has three special days: her birthday, the day she came to us and the day we finalized the adoption. She also knows that she has a sister living at our friend’s house. She knows that if she is ever interested in meeting the lady that we will help her. > > Above all, she knows that we are her mom and dad. Anyone can be a father or mother. It takes a special person to be a mom or dad. We have this poem on her bedroom wall. You’ve probably heard it a million times but it is still relevant: > My heart goes out to all of you that never knew the love of a mom and/or dad. I hope that, if you never received the love and nurturing you needed as a child, you were able to get the help you needed as an adult to deal with the pain of rejection. > > But above all, \*\* ZPG Zealot\*\*, please do not try to “counsel” someone about parenting when you obviously have an extremely negative view of children and child-rearing. Your bias is not the norm and could be extremely harmful to people in conflict. They need to speak with professionals who have studied and practiced psychology, specifically in aspects regarding adoption issues. I was a very loved (and probably a little spoiled) child and remember my childhood as very blissfull. But it never occurred to me that I needed specifically this one woman or man to call Mom and Dad in order to be happy, safe, and secure. In truth, when I was a child I felt sorry for my friends that only had two parents (or worse only one). They seemed so lonely and dependent. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/69 "2010-01-19T19:24:27Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In truth, when I was a child I felt sorry for my friends that only had two parents (or worse only one). They seemed so lonely and dependent. So you consider yourself to have had more than two parents? Wouldn’t that be biologically impossible? Why are you confusing the language like that? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/70 "2010-01-19T19:25:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Teachers, cops, hospital personnel, depending on their religious tradiations anyone who has social contact with the family outside of a nod when passing, especially the people who have to interact with the child. The genetic relationship between the parents and the child might be important information during a medical procedure, but otherwise what reason do any of these individuals have for knowing about it? A teacher or a cop … why? What use would that information be to them? And what religious traditions are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/71 "2010-01-19T19:25:55Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > My thoughts exactly. Obviously people close enough to the family are going to know anyway. If a random person overhears a little boy calling his stepmother “Mom” or his stepdad “Dad,” and assumes there’s a blood relationship…who cares, really? Who is this hurting? > > ETA: If you’re in a situation where those people need to know, you can tell them. Though to be honest, I’m not sure why you need to tell a teacher, “That’s little Tommy’s STEPmother, not his real mom.” Two words: permission slips. In some districts, a stepparent can’t just sign them. There has to be other legal documentation on file giving the stepparent permission to sign. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/72 "2010-01-19T19:27:50Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Another adopter per chance? Paying the bills is only one of the more obvious manifestations of doing all the necessary little things associated with training children to be functional adults. I’m clearly wondering why you think it is necessary to be called a parent to do this. And often it’s not a question of “allowing” the adoptee to respond to the adult as a parent, it’s the adopter forcing the child to call them mother or father when they do not want to. It strikes me as the act of someone that doesn’t really care about the child, only how they are perceived in the world. May I suggest that your own personal family-related pain and suffering does not translate to universality? You are revealing quite a lot of a very twisted view of the issues surrounding the concept of family in this thread. I’m reading your posts about this and getting a definite feeling that you aren’t really plugged into the concept of family that the larger society holds. The people who care for you, who raise you, who are there for you when you have chicken pox, who take you to your first day of school, who act as home-room mothers, who drive you to Little League or piano lessons or Learning Center art classes, who then hang the product of those art classes on the fridge, who know what you like to eat and what you like to read and what your favorite stuffed animal is, who have taken on the completely optional responsibility and honor of helping you become a productive and good member of society for no more compensation than the joy of raising a child who had no hope from a very young age…those are Mom and Dad. Regardless of whether or not they contributed to your genetic makeup. You continue to make adoption sound like a completely selfish act that’s calculated to do more to tickle the adopting couple’s humanitarian sensibilities than to help a child who has no home. That’s more than a little twisted. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/73 "2010-01-19T19:28:09Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > So you consider yourself to have had more than two parents? Wouldn’t that be biologically impossible? Why are you confusing the language like that? I don’t think you need to be the “parent” to raise a child. Many adults raised me, but I did not (nor did I see a reason to) refer to them as Mom or Dad. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/74 "2010-01-19T19:29:00Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Two words: permission slips. In some districts, a stepparent can’t just sign them. There has to be other legal documentation on file giving the stepparent permission to sign. Is that still the case if the stepparent has ADOPTED the child in question? ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/75 "2010-01-19T19:29:57Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Well, it does make it more difficult to figure out what the actual relationship between the adult and the child is. Children need a sense of belonging and permanence. That is why some foster kids who are bounced from place to place have problems making connections with others out of a fear that they will be rejected or abandoned. If you adopt a baby and insist on being called \*\* ZPG Zealot\*\* instead of mom then the kid will think that you don’t care and are maintaining a distance. Why even bother to adopt the kid in the first place? Adoption is done out of love. The people who become foster parents as a money making plan (I met a few who played to system and knew they would get more by taking in special needs kids) are scum and, unfortunately, the kids pay the price. But let’s figure out just how off base you can be, \*\* ZPG Zealot\*\*: what about gay couples who want to adopt? I guess they shouldn’t be reading the book Heather has two Mommies. Instead it should be Heather lives with Ellen and Portia because, obviously, those two women, no matter how much they love that baby and how desperately they wanted her in their lives, can **never** be her mommy. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/76 "2010-01-19T19:30:20Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > This is a question I have always had about people that adopt children who are not in anyway related to them, but whenever I try to ask it, I get hysterics. Why is it necessary to maintain the fiction that the adopters gave birth to the children by raising them to call their adopters mother and father (or other parental names)? It never made sense to me, if adoption is such a good and noble thing, that the relationship between the child and caregiver had to be hidden. It also seemed rather insulting to people who were guardians or godparents and raising children. This made me laugh. For the record - I am amused, not hysterical. I have 2 adopted kids. Well, young adults now. I will tell them to stop calling me “Mom” and pick another title. Why? Because, it is “fiction”, I am not their mother despite having full legal responsibility for them the first 18 years of their lives. I will also amend my trust. The large inheritance shall no longer go to them when I die, as I am not their Mother. Also, when they do have children of their own, I will instruct their children never to call me “Grandma”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/77 "2010-01-19T19:31:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Well, it does make it more difficult to figure out what the actual relationship between the adult and the child is. I don’t think you get it. “Father” or “mother”\* is\* the actual relationship between parents and their children, whether adoptive or biological. There’s nothing to figure out, in other words. A person who points to another and says, “That’s my mother” is usually telling you about a relationship between them. This relationship is what is important, not who gave birth. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/78 "2010-01-19T19:34:41Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > This made me laugh. > For the record - I am amused, not hysterical. > > I have 2 adopted kids. Well, young adults now. > I will tell them to stop calling me “Mom” and pick another title. Why? Because, it is “fiction”, I am not their mother despite having full legal responsibility for them the first 18 years of their lives. I will also amend my trust. The large inheritance shall no longer go to them when I die, as I am not their Mother. > Also, when they do have children of their own, I will instruct their children never to call me “Grandma”. > 😃 I’m with you…I’m going to start calling my parents…excuse me, my ADOPTERS by their first names, and when they object, I will tell them that I simply cannot go on with this fiction any longer! Then, I will proceed to tell every single person who has ever interacted with me that I was adopted, so they can alter their approach to our interactions as they deem appropriate, now that they know I was lying to them by omission all this time. It’s the least I can do for all concerned, really. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/79 "2010-01-19T19:34:48Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > The genetic relationship between the parents and the child might be important information during a medical procedure, but otherwise what reason do any of these individuals have for knowing about it? A teacher or a cop … why? What use would that information be to them? And what religious traditions are you talking about? Some religious tradiations consider a person to be ritually “unclean” if they share food, drink or swimming water with someone who is illegitimate or otherwise residing in a state they consider immoral such as a remarriage after divorce under certain circumstances. I consider such beliefs superstitution, but for others it is something they sincerely worry about and I would not want to subject someone who did worry about such a situation to undue trouble. If people are honest about what the family relationships are, this doesn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/80 "2010-01-19T19:37:27Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Some religious tradiations consider a person to be ritually “unclean” if they share food, drink or swimming water with someone who is illegitimate or otherwise residing in a state they consider immoral such as a remarriage after divorce under certain circumstances. I consider such beliefs superstitution, but for others it is something they sincerely worry about and I would not want to subject someone who did worry about such a situation to undue trouble. If people want to believe such an ugly, nasty lie, that’s their problem. Why should we cater to people whose ignorant beliefs lead to hurting others? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506.md?page=5)