# Adoption: Why say Mom and Dad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506 "2010-01-19T02:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/81 "2010-01-19T19:39:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Some religious tradiations consider a person to be ritually “unclean” if they share food, drink or swimming water with someone who is illegitimate or otherwise residing in a state they consider immoral such as a remarriage after divorce under certain circumstances. I consider such beliefs superstitution, but for others it is something they sincerely worry about and I would not want to subject someone who did worry about such a situation to undue trouble. If people are honest about what the family relationships are, this doesn’t happen. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more tightly-grasped straw in my whole life. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/82 "2010-01-19T19:40:01Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > Children need a sense of belonging and permanence. That is why some foster kids who are bounced from place to place have problems making connections with others out of a fear that they will be rejected or abandoned. If you adopt a baby and insist on being called \*\* ZPG Zealot\*\* instead of mom then the kid will think that you don’t care and are maintaining a distance. Why even bother to adopt the kid in the first place? Adoption is done out of love. The people who become foster parents as a money making plan (I met a few who played to system and knew they would get more by taking in special needs kids) are scum and, unfortunately, the kids pay the price. > > But let’s figure out just how off base you can be, \*\* ZPG Zealot\*\*: what about gay couples who want to adopt? I guess they shouldn’t be reading the book Heather has two Mommies. Instead it should be Heather lives with Ellen and Portia because, obviously, those two women, no matter how much they love that baby and how desperately they wanted her in their lives, can **never** be her mommy. Strange, my sister raised four orphan cousins who all had a sense of belonging and permanence even if they had no parents. And as I have said earlier it never occurred to me growing up that I needed two specific people to address as mom and dad to be secure and cared for. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/83 "2010-01-19T19:44:08Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Strange, my sister raised four orphan cousins who all had a sense of belonging and permanence even if they had no parents. And as I have said earlier it never occurred to me growing up that I needed two specific people to address as mom and dad to be secure and cared for. You. Are. Not. The. Norm. The view of family that you’ve shown in this thread is completely alien to me. I don’t begrudge you your childhood raised by multiple people. I don’t even think that’s a bad thing to happen to a child. But it isn’t what most people in the Western world experience, so why are you so insistent that it’s the correct way and we must toss decades of common family norms out the window for it? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/84 "2010-01-19T19:44:58Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > Children need a sense of belonging and permanence. That is why some foster kids who are bounced from place to place have problems making connections with others out of a fear that they will be rejected or abandoned. If you adopt a baby and insist on being called \*\* ZPG Zealot\*\* instead of mom then the kid will think that you don’t care and are maintaining a distance. Why even bother to adopt the kid in the first place? Adoption is done out of love. The people who become foster parents as a money making plan (I met a few who played to system and knew they would get more by taking in special needs kids) are scum and, unfortunately, the kids pay the price. > > But let’s figure out just how off base you can be, \*\* ZPG Zealot\*\*: what about gay couples who want to adopt? I guess they shouldn’t be reading the book Heather has two Mommies. Instead it should be Heather lives with Ellen and Portia because, obviously, those two women, no matter how much they love that baby and how desperately they wanted her in their lives, can **never** be her mommy. I always thought the point about adopting was that you wanted to help a child that had no relatives to care for him or her. That you sincerely loved that child, not that you only conditionally loved that child if they agreed to call you mom or dad. And what the heck, is wrong with the word Guardian. I think it’s one of the most beautiful words in the English language. It says to a child, I will “guard” you and take care of you, not out of family duty, but because I love you. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/85 "2010-01-19T19:46:31Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You. Are. Not. The. Norm. > > The view of family that you’ve shown in this thread is completely alien to me. I don’t begrudge you your childhood raised by multiple people. I don’t even think that’s a bad thing to happen to a child. But it isn’t what most people in the Western world experience, so why are you so insistent that it’s the correct way and we must toss decades of common family norms out the window for it? Actually, read up on the history of adoption, the family norm you are describing is fairly new. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/86 "2010-01-19T19:49:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I always thought the point about adopting was that you wanted to help a child that had no relatives to care for him or her. That you sincerely loved that child, not that you only conditionally loved that child if they agreed to call you mom or dad. And what the heck, is wrong with the word Guardian. I think it’s one of the most beautiful words in the English language. It says to a child, I will “guard” you and take care of you, not out of family duty, but because I love you. No, we covered this already…the point of adopting is usually NOT to help a child that had no relatives to care for him and her. Sure, SOME people do it for that reason, and some people do it due to circumstance (like a sibling or cousin dies and they take in the child), but most people who adopt do so because they want to become parents. Most people adopt after they’ve already tried to have biological children and couldn’t. The sincere love you speak of applies to both biological and adopted children, so the parental terms of endearment apply to both, as well. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/87 "2010-01-19T19:49:52Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually, read up on the history of adoption, the family norm you are describing is fairly new. That’s why I said “decades” instead of “centuries”. It USED to be that adoption was considered shameful somehow, but it’s not that way now. No one really has to hide it. But adopted parents being called “Mom” and “Dad” isn’t hiding anything. It’s what you call parents. And adopted parents are parents, period. You keep trying to create this huge divide between adopted parents and natural parents and there really isn’t one. Parents are parents. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/88 "2010-01-19T19:49:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I always thought the point about adopting was that you wanted to help a child that had no relatives to care for him or her. That you sincerely loved that child, not that you only conditionally loved that child if they agreed to call you mom or dad. And what the heck, is wrong with the word Guardian. I think it’s one of the most beautiful words in the English language. It says to a child, I will “guard” you and take care of you, not out of family duty, but because I love you. You don’t love the child BECAUSE they call you Mom or Dad. It’s because you love them that you and the child use those words. Have you ever had a significant other? Did you ever call him/her, “Baby,” or “Honey” or any endearment? And if so, was it that you had to use those words or else love would be with held…or more that it was an expression of love? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/89 "2010-01-19T19:54:15Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Some religious tradiations consider a person to be ritually “unclean” if they share food, drink or swimming water with someone who is illegitimate or otherwise residing in a state they consider immoral such as a remarriage after divorce under certain circumstances. I consider such beliefs superstitution, but for others it is something they sincerely worry about and I would not want to subject someone who did worry about such a situation to undue trouble. If people are honest about what the family relationships are, this doesn’t happen. So just for honesty’s sake, I should keep a t-shirt handy to wear sometimes that reads, “I went swimming today in a public pool. I may, therefore, be considered ritually unclean by some religions. Warning: I may have shared swimming water with one who is illegitimate, remarried after divorce, or other ‘unclean’ circumstances.” Oooookay… ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/90 "2010-01-19T19:56:56Z")
I briefly - _very_ briefly - thought of calling my mom and dad by their given names when I was in my rebellious teen years. I mean, they weren’t (aren’t) my _real_ parents. Then I realized that despite not being related to them biologically, they were my parents in every way. Somewhere I have bio-parents without whom I would not exist. I wouldn’t say they’re not important, but they’re irrelevant. Without the people I call my mom and dad I wouldn’t be the person I am today and that’s why they’re my parents. The majority of TheKids’ friends call me Mom, not because I’ve demanded it of them, but because they choose to. Should I tell them to stop? One friend said she does it because I will listen to her when her parents won’t. Another said it’s a sign of respect and he feels more comfortable at my house than he does at his own. His mom has told me it makes her uncomfortable, but that’s between the two of them. I suggested he call me “Auntie” instead, but he still calls me Mom. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/91 "2010-01-19T19:58:06Z")
[http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/01/19/natpkg.haiti.orphan.arrival.cnn](http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/01/19/natpkg.haiti.orphan.arrival.cnn) More fiction of adoption. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/92 "2010-01-19T20:05:20Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Several adopters seem to feel that because they support a child they should be called a parent. And because we wake our child up in the morning, and put him to bed at night. Because we kiss his scrapes and bruises and make them better. Because when he wakes up crying in the middle of the night, we rock him back to sleep. Because we teach him to say ‘please’ and ‘thank you.’ Because when he first sings “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star” all the way through, it brings tears to our eyes. That’s the beginning of a long, long list, but you get the idea. Yeah, we think that because we do these things, we get to call ourselves ‘mom’ and ‘dad.’ Just like any other parents. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/93 "2010-01-19T20:06:04Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Some religious tradiations consider a person to be ritually “unclean” if they share food, drink or swimming water with someone who is illegitimate or otherwise residing in a state they consider immoral such as a remarriage after divorce under certain circumstances. I consider such beliefs superstitution, but for others it is something they sincerely worry about and I would not want to subject someone who did worry about such a situation to undue trouble. If people are honest about what the family relationships are, this doesn’t happen. Wow. My grandfather, who remembered the orphan trains, did treat me and my cousin (also adopted) differently - and was fairly upfront about it. He believed that without the kindness of our parents we would have been throwaways, and who knows? That could have occurred. While he spoiled us more than our biologically related siblings, it was with the understanding that we were to give up our lives in thanks for our parents’ benevolence. My mom and dad went with what he said - until we were out of earshot, when they would remind me they loved me as much as they loved my sister and that was that. That said, I suppose I should unearth my “I’m a bastard” shirt. Since TheKid was born out of wedlock, I should get her one too, just to make sure everyone knows. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/94 "2010-01-19T20:10:33Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > No, we covered this already…the point of adopting is usually NOT to help a child that had no relatives to care for him and her. Sure, SOME people do it for that reason, and some people do it due to circumstance (like a sibling or cousin dies and they take in the child), but most people who adopt do so because they want to become parents. Most people adopt after they’ve already tried to have biological children and couldn’t. The sincere love you speak of applies to both biological and adopted children, so the parental terms of endearment apply to both, as well. That really, really bothers me. It sounds like using a child to fulfill adult desires, not what’s best for the child. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/95 "2010-01-19T20:12:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And because we wake our child up in the morning, and put him to bed at night. Because we kiss his scrapes and bruises and make them better. Because when he wakes up crying in the middle of the night, we rock him back to sleep. Because we teach him to say ‘please’ and ‘thank you.’ Because when he first sings “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star” all the way through, it brings tears to our eyes. > > That’s the beginning of a long, long list, but you get the idea. > > Yeah, we think that because we do these things, we get to call ourselves ‘mom’ and ‘dad.’ Just like any other parents. Done tons of that stuff for nephews, nieces, cousins, and friends kids. It never occurred to me I should require them to call me, mother. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/96 "2010-01-19T20:12:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > That really, really bothers me. It sounds like using a child to fulfill adult desires, not what’s best for the child. Most people come to the opposite conclusion, actually–that adopting a child to do it a favor is the wrong reason. If you genuinely want a child and can care for it, you should have one, whether it’s a biological or adopted child. But saying that you’re adopting this child out of the goodness of your heart–that’s kind of putting a heavy burden on the kid. Like saying they’re a charity act, not a child. I think most adopted parents don’t see them this way. They’re a child they love–it doesn’t matter that there’s no biological relation. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/97 "2010-01-19T20:13:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think you get it. “Father” or “mother”\* is\* the actual relationship between parents and their children, whether adoptive or biological. > > There’s nothing to figure out, in other words. A person who points to another and says, “That’s my mother” is usually telling you about a relationship between them. This relationship is what is important, not who gave birth. What **Shodan** said. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/98 "2010-01-19T20:15:30Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > That really, really bothers me. It sounds like using a child to fulfill adult desires, not what’s best for the child. Are you a parent yourself? For someone who styles herself “a wise woman”, you don’t seem to have much insight into the parental bond. Taking care of a child is both selfish AND selfless. It satisfies (for many of us) a deep emotional need, AND it is also a huge and serious responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/99 "2010-01-19T20:16:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > That really, really bothers me. It sounds like using a child to fulfill adult desires, not what’s best for the child. What IS best for the child, **ZPG Zealot**? Making sure they feel like outsiders who don’t really belong in the family their entire lives? Making sure to treat them differently than you would your own natural children? Making sure they don’t get too familiar with the adopted parents, since they’re not those people’s REAL children? Let me tell you my perspective, and it’s one that comes from someone who is neither adopted nor who has actually adopted (or had children at all). My perspective is that, once the adoption is finalized, there is no difference between an adopted child and a natural child, period. None. No difference at all. That child is the offspring of the adoptive couple every bit as much as a natural child of their bodies would be. Frankly, I consider that the only healthy attitude an adoptive family can possibly have. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506/100 "2010-01-19T20:17:51Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Done tons of that stuff for nephews, nieces, cousins, and friends kids. It never occurred to me I should require them to call me, mother. Really? You wake them up every morning, and put them to bed every night? And do all the everyday stuff in between? I think if you did so from an age when they couldn’t remember anyone else taking care of them, they’d call you ‘mama’ without your having to require it. They wouldn’t care if you were technically their aunt or whatever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adoption-why-say-mom-and-dad/525506.md?page=6)