# Adult bicyclists: get off the damn sidewalk! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118 "2007-03-16T01:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Sonia\_Montdore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Sonia\_Montdore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonia_Montdore)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/201 "2007-03-20T14:38:57Z")
I ride my bike a lot, often on the sidewalk. It’s a matter of self-preservation because I live near Boston, where the motorists are the most inconsiderate, reckless drivers on the planet. However, whenever I approach pedestrians, I get off my bike, walk around them, then re-mount when I’m several feet past them. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/202 "2007-03-20T15:05:36Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] I refer to them in the same manner as I would anyone, in any type of vehicle, who thought it was reasonable to go 3 mph in the travel lanes of that road - self-absorbed moron. [/QUOTE] What do you suggest I do if that road is the only one leading to the destination I want to get to (or, the others are even more dangerous)? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/203 "2007-03-20T16:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] As you can see, it says to drive with the flow of traffic and within the posted speed limit. Which means that for that road, 50 mph is perfectly reasonable. Being rear-ended is a greater danger to me than coming up on some moron on a bicycle who thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to do 3 mph in a 50 mph zone. [/QUOTE] Its my understanding that speed limits are set precisely in order to allow people time to react to obstacles. What you said implies you would follow the flow of traffic, even if that meant speeding. (This may not be what you meant, but it is implied by what you said nevertheless.) Furthermore, the manual (as quoted in the second paragraph) actually mentions bicyclists, and says you need to accomodate them, not the other way around. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/204 "2007-03-20T16:43:43Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Except that what you quoted was amended by the 3364. [/quote] Huh? Um, no I don’t think so. > [@](#): > > And even what you pasted says **‘unless it is unsafe to do so’**. Going 3 mph in a 50 mph zone is unsafe whether you’re in a car, walking, on a bike, or riding a fucking tricycle. You’re an idiot. Bicycles are expressly allowed on roads. To argue that they are de facto unsafe merely because their speed is less than the prevailing speed of cars on the road is just utterly asinine. > [@](#): > > Being rear-ended is a greater danger to me than coming up on some moron on a bicycle who thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to do 3 mph in a 50 mph zone. Yeah, how dare they not have warp-drive on their bicycles. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/205 "2007-03-20T16:46:10Z")
> [@](#): > > **lowbrass** said: > What do you suggest I do if that road is the only one leading to the destination I want to get to (or, the others are even more dangerous)? Perhaps you should consider a safer mode of transportation. > [@](#): > > **Frylock** said: > What you said implies you would follow the flow of traffic, even if that meant speeding. (This may not be what you meant, but it is implied by what you said nevertheless.) There are times when that is the case. It’s been discussed here many times that depending upon the flow of traffic on a particular road, doing the speed limit is not always the safest thing to do. I don’t generally speed on that road, and have had instances where someone comes up on my rear end extremely fast. I would hate for them to have to react to me going 3 mph rather than 50 mph. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, the manual (as quoted in the second paragraph) actually mentions bicyclists, and says you need to accomodate them, not the other way around. I will gladly accommodate them until it puts me at unnecessary risk. and after that I start thinking they really shouldn’t be there creating a slow-rolling roadblock. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/206 "2007-03-20T16:50:59Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] > [@](#): > > **lowbrass** said: > What do you suggest I do if that road is the only one leading to the destination I want to get to (or, the others are even more dangerous)? Perhaps you should consider a safer mode of transportation. [/QUOTE] Or alter your departure time(s) to encounter the least amount of traffic as possible. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/207 "2007-03-20T17:07:40Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Perhaps you should consider a safer mode of transportation. [/QUOTE] And why should _I_ alter my behavior, and not you? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/208 "2007-03-20T17:39:09Z")
You’ve got a lot more on the line by creating that risk. And I can’t just decide to drive my car somewhere other than the road. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/209 "2007-03-20T17:46:37Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] lowbrass said: What do you suggest I do if that road is the only one leading to the destination I want to get to (or, the others are even more dangerous)? Perhaps you should consider a safer mode of transportation. [/quote] Hey dumbass. I didn’t write that. Your head’s just getting further and further up your ass. Maybe you should quit while you’re behind. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/210 "2007-03-20T17:56:27Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] You’ve got a lot more on the line by creating that risk. [/QUOTE] Another brilliant argument by catsix. :rolleyes: Scr4 asks why the _bicyclist_ should alter his behavior to accomodate dangerous drivers instead of the drivers altering _their_ behavior, and you answer that he has “a lot more on the line”. That’s another way of saying “I’m bigger than you so I’ll just mow you down rather than being careful.” > [@](#): > > And I can’t just decide to drive my car somewhere other than the road. You’re missing a fundamental point. A bicycle is a _mode of transportation_ just like a car. They are traveling somewhere just as you are. It’s no more optional than what _you’re_ doing. You’re being extremely narrow-minded in your assumption that you, merely by virtue of the fact that you’re in a car, somehow have more “right” to be on the road than a bicycle. That’s simply false. Please listen to what people are telling you. Any argument along the lines of “I can’t just decide not to drive my car”, applies equally to bicycles. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/211 "2007-03-20T18:02:41Z")
My apologizes. I got you confused with **scr4**. Note, it was **scr4** who said: > [@](#): > > What do you suggest I do if that road is the only one leading to the destination I want to get to (or, the others are even more dangerous)? I mistakenly attributed it to **lowbrass**. You might not have made that comment, but you are still a gigantic dickweed self-entitled asshole. It’s not just this thread that’s made me think you’re a goat-felching shitbag of the highest order, but your attitude of smug entitlement certainly does wonders for you here. Repeatedly I have said that although you have every legal right to ride your bike on a road like that, it’s still unsafe and stupid to do so. I’d never consider riding a bike there, and get this, I actually do own and ride a bicycle. **RTFirefly** understood what I was saying, and although he often rides a bicycle, he said he wouldn’t ride one on a road where such danger exists. But perhaps you should continue to ignore reason, common sense, and safety and continue to bleat like a jackass about your right to be a danger to yourself and others. We’ll all remember that you had the right to be there when you’re a road pizza. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/212 "2007-03-20T18:03:40Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] You’ve got a lot more on the line by creating that risk. [/quote] Again, why do you insist that the _cyclist_ is creating that risk? It’s the inattentive drivers that are creating the risk. Both have the right to be on the road, and the driver has the obligation to accommodate bicycle traffic. > [@](#): > > And I can’t just decide to drive my car somewhere other than the road. And I can’t just decide to ride my bike somewhere other than the road. It’s illegal and dangerous to ride on the sidewalk (even if there is one), and bike trails don’t lead to where I need or want to go. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/213 "2007-03-20T18:09:33Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] But perhaps you should continue to ignore reason, common sense, and safety and continue to bleat like a jackass about your right to be a danger to yourself and others. [/quote] Your “common sense” is not as common as you may think. Honestly, 50mph roads are not as dangerous to cyclists as you seem to think. I know it’s _inconvenient_ for drivers, and I try to pull over every chance to let cars behind me pass. But really, the chances of a driver failing to see a cyclist ahead in his/her lane is extremely small. Most accidents occur at intersections where drivers fail to see cyclists coming down other roads, or out of the sidewalk. > [@](#): > > We’ll all remember that you had the right to be there when you’re a road pizza. The police, insurance company and lawyers will also remember that. Keep that in mind. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/214 "2007-03-20T18:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > **scr4** said: > Again, why do you insist that the cyclist is creating that risk? It’s the inattentive drivers that are creating the risk. Both have the right to be on the road, and the driver has the obligation to accommodate bicycle traffic. Because they’re the one going 3 mph in a 50 mph zone. If you were in a fucking Yugo doing 3 mph, you’d still be the one creating the risk. > [@](#): > > And I can’t just decide to ride my bike somewhere other than the road. It’s illegal and dangerous to ride on the sidewalk (even if there is one), and bike trails don’t lead to where I need or want to go. Then maybe you ought to consider something other than a bicycle. Or stop bitching that cars and trucks are driving along at a legal speed. It’s not the fact that you’re on a bicycle that makes you a hazard on a road like that. It’s the fact that you’re doing 45-50 mph LESS than every other vehicle on that road. > [@](#): > > **scr4** said: > The police, insurance company and lawyers will also remember that. Keep that in mind. I bet all that money is really so important to a dead biker. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/215 "2007-03-20T18:14:15Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] You might not have made that comment, but you are still a gigantic dickweed self-entitled asshole. [/quote] Coming from you, that means nothing. > [@](#): > > It’s not just this thread that’s made me think you’re a goat-felching shitbag of the highest order, but your attitude of smug entitlement certainly does wonders for you here. Hmmm…you have repeatedly said that you don’t think bicycles belong on this road because you don’t believe you should have to be cautious at blind curves and hill crests, and that if it is their only route, that they should find another mode of transportation. And you think _I_ have an attitude of smug entitlement. That’s a good one. Tell me another joke. 😃 I’ve refuted all your bullshit with solid evidence and reason, and now all you can do is call me names. > [@](#): > > But perhaps you should continue to ignore reason, common sense, and safety and continue to bleat like a jackass about your right to be a danger to yourself and others. We’ll all remember that you had the right to be there when you’re a road pizza. YOU are creating the danger by not acknowledging that bicycles need to share the road with cars, and by refusing to understand that you are required to exercise caution when you are behing the wheel. Driving the speed limit no matter what, just because it’s the speed limit, without regard to the conditions present, is foolish and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/216 "2007-03-20T18:22:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **lowbrass** said: > Hmmm…you have repeatedly said that you don’t think bicycles belong on this road because you don’t believe you should have to be cautious at blind curves and hill crests, and that if it is their only route, that they should find another mode of transportation. At what point did I say I do not need to be cautious? I stated that bicycles don’t belong on that road because they cannot safely keep up with the flow of traffic and create a risk of accidents by traveling that road at a speed significantly slower than it is reasonable to expect on such a road. > [@](#): > > And you think _I_ have an attitude of smug entitlement. You’re the one who wants to do something that could get you killed just because you have the legal right to. > [@](#): > > YOU are creating the danger by not acknowledging that bicycles need to share the road with cars, and by refusing to understand that you are required to exercise caution when you are behing the wheel. Driving the speed limit no matter what, just because it’s the speed limit, without regard to the conditions present, is foolish and dangerous. Where’d I say that I drive the speed limit ‘no matter what’? Have we had a discussion of all possible weather and visibility conditions along said highway in question, during which I stated that no matter what the weather or visibility, I never go less than 50 mph on that road? I don’t think we did. You’re not only a smug bastard, you’re dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/217 "2007-03-20T18:26:02Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Then maybe you ought to consider something other than a bicycle. Or stop bitching that cars and trucks are driving along at a legal speed. [/quote] If the road condition makes it unsafe to drive at the posted speed limit, then it’s no longer a legal speed. That includes sharp turns, rain, etc. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/218 "2007-03-20T18:31:10Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] You’re the one who wants to do something that could get you killed just because you have the legal right to. [/quote] You drive a car; that can easily get you killed too. But I don’t question your right to do it. Why should you question mine? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/219 "2007-03-20T18:32:11Z")
It does not mean ‘drive at 10 mph or less in case there is a bicycle somewhere on this road going under 10 mph’. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/220 "2007-03-20T18:33:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **scr4** said: > You drive a car; that can easily get you killed too. But I don’t question your right to do it. Why should you question mine? Because I don’t insist on driving my car 47 mph slower than the average speed of traffic and then get righteously pissed off at people who say that I’m driving too goddamn slow to be on the road. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118.md?page=12)