# Adult bicyclists: get off the damn sidewalk! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118 "2007-03-16T01:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/241 "2007-03-20T23:16:57Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] And when you start trailing a line of cars that are unable to pass you for whatever reason, it’s time to move over–completely off the road, if necessary. [/QUOTE] Yes, at the first chance where it’s safe to do so. I don’t think any cyclist has said otherwise in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/242 "2007-03-21T00:06:24Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Yes, at the first chance where it’s safe to do so. I don’t think any cyclist has said otherwise in this thread. [/QUOTE] I would under the circumstances described. But I’ve never had it happen. Except for a few drivers line up behind me…in the bike & parking lane as they tried to sneak around the drivers waiting their turn at the light. That’s the only time I think I’ve ‘held up’ a train of cars. And I sure as fuck wasn’t pulling over to let them by. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/243 "2007-03-21T01:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Different issues, yes, but similar arguments. “You drive a car; that can easily get you killed too. But I don’t question your right to do it. Why should you question mine (to ride on a road that could be dangerous for me)?” "It’s my choice. [/quote] A. I don’t remember saying any of those things, and B. Riding a bike on the street is still a different issue than wearing or not wearing a helmet. I always wear a helmet when I ride a bike. You’d have to be an idiot not to. > [@](#): > > "You are, however, arguing that **catsix** doesn’t pay enough attention to cyclists on a particular stretch of road. Not really. I suspect that catsix is exaggerating the situation. I have _never_ encountered a situation where I felt I was in danger of killing a cyclist with my car; it’s generally quite easy to pass them on the left with a little skill and foresight. I didn’t just pop in and say, “Hey catsix, I know nothing about you but I think you don’t pay enough attention to cyclists.” No, catsix is presenting this ridiculous exaggerated scenario where one supposedly _has_ to drive 50 mph around blind curves and risk hitting cyclists. IN RESPONSE to that, I said that if you really did that under those cirumstances, you wouldn’t be driving correctly. I believe catsix’s position is mostly hyperbole. But if you’d like to find the exact quote of me saying “catsix doesn’t pay enough attention to cyclists”, please do. I don’t believe I ever said that. > [@](#): > > And when you start trailing a line of cars that are unable to pass you for whatever reason, it’s time to move over–completely off the road, if necessary. If that actually happened to a bicyclist, that would be a prudent thing to do. I think that’d be pretty rare, though. They’re usually going to just go around you. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/244 "2007-03-21T02:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] No, catsix is presenting this ridiculous exaggerated scenario where one supposedly _has_ to drive 50 mph around blind curves and risk hitting cyclists. IN RESPONSE to that, I said that if you really did that under those cirumstances, you wouldn’t be driving correctly. I believe catsix’s position is mostly hyperbole. [/QUOTE] While I agree that **catsix’s** position that the stretch of road is probably not the smartest road for bikers to traverse, I also agree with you in that as a motorist you should never be driving in such a way that encountering an unexpected obstacle in the middle of the roadway would cause an accident, and should an automobile hit a cyclist on such a road, I would assume the driver at fault. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/245 "2007-03-21T04:00:36Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] I don’t remember saying any of those things [/quote] Not in those exact words, no. That was **scr4**. > [@](#): > > Riding a bike on the street is still a different issue than wearing or not wearing a helmet. I’m aware of that. Point is, riding without a helmet and riding on the wrong street are both legal for one to do so, depending on one’s location, and both can be very hazardous to one’s health. > [@](#): > > If that actually happened to a bicyclist, that would be a prudent thing to do. I think that’d be pretty rare, though. They’re usually going to just go around you. Usually, yes. Sometimes not possible; for example, if just going around isn’t possible due to traffic, road conditions, etc. Which is part of what **catsix** has been getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/246 "2007-03-21T04:12:10Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Yes, at the first chance where it’s safe to do so. [/QUOTE] Cyclists always have the choice of dismounting; they do not need to wait for a pull off, unlike drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/247 "2007-03-21T04:22:16Z")
Missed this. > [@lowbrass](#): > > No, catsix is presenting this ridiculous exaggerated scenario where one supposedly has to drive 50 mph around blind curves and risk hitting cyclists. IN RESPONSE to that, I said that if you really did that under those cirumstances, you wouldn’t be driving correctly. I believe catsix’s position is mostly hyperbole. I believe you are concentrating too much on the speed. I have yet to see such a curve that doesn’t have a much lower posted speed. > [@](#): > > But if you’d like to find the exact quote of me saying “catsix doesn’t pay enough attention to cyclists”, please do. I don’t believe I ever said that. I don’t believe I said it _was_ an exact quote. You did say this, though: > [@](#): > > Scr4 asks why the bicyclist should alter his behavior to accomodate dangerous drivers instead of the drivers altering their behavior, and you answer that he has “a lot more on the line”. That’s another way of saying “I’m bigger than you so I’ll just mow you down rather than being careful.” ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/248 "2007-03-21T05:12:40Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Cyclists always have the choice of dismounting; they do not need to wait for a pull off, unlike drivers. [/QUOTE] Huh? Am I supposed to lift my bike and jump over a guardrail? Climb a wall? Walk down a hill? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/249 "2007-03-21T05:34:58Z")
And even if there’s just the curb to deal with, do you really expect a cyclist to come to a complete stop, dismount, and lift the bike onto the curb? It’ll take maybe 5 seconds to signal the cars behind and bring the bike to a complete stop without being rear-ended. Maybe another 10 seconds to dismount and move the bike. And that’s assuming the cyclist is strong enough (and the bike light enough) to do so, which isn’t always the case. Do you really think this is practical and desirable for _any_ party involved? During those 15 seconds the bike+cars could have traveled 400 ft (assuming 18mph), during which there’s most likely a place where the bike can pull over without dismounting. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/250 "2007-03-21T06:41:09Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] I refer to them in the same manner as I would anyone, in any type of vehicle, who thought it was reasonable to go 3 mph in the travel lanes of that road - self-absorbed moron. [/QUOTE] Again, your position here seems rather tenuous. We have a cyclist, on a road he is allowed to be on by law, riding in a manner that obeys the law…and yet you think he is the self-absorbed moron, rather than say you for feeling you have more right to use this public road than he does? Really, I get worried when I hear a fellow driver tell me that he thinks such a thing is dangerous. I wonder just how much attention they’re paying, or what control they have on their vehicle, that they find themselves so worried about what should be a very simple maneuver - spot cyclist, slow down, wait till it’s safe to overtake. On the roads I drive on, mostly narrow rural roads with a speed limit of 60, there’s lots of occasions where that’s necessary - would you be as vexed by a farmer driving a tractor? Should they not use the roads either? No, I really just don’t go with your argument. I think that a bad driver is a lot more of a danger than a cyclist, and I’m beginning to wonder if that’s not the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/251 "2007-03-21T06:51:37Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Cyclists always have the choice of dismounting; they do not need to wait for a pull off, unlike drivers. [/QUOTE] I can think of a number of roads where there’s no real option for a cyclist to stop safely (roads with either a steep bank on the side, or a steep drop off). All in all, as a driver I’d rather they didn’t just stop whilst on the road, as I prefer it when my fellow road users don’t make sudden, unpredictable moves, whatever vehicle they’re in. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/252 "2007-03-21T07:22:46Z")
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat] On the roads I drive on, mostly narrow rural roads with a speed limit of 60, there’s lots of occasions where that’s necessary - would you be as vexed by a farmer driving a tractor? Should they not use the roads either? [/QUOTE] I almost posted a similar example. I’ve driven on winding, narrow hilly roads with ~50 mph speed limits where the occasional horse-drawn cart plodding up the mountainside would not be unheard of (OK, this was not in the US). To me, this is a lot more dangerous than a cyclist (the horse cart takes up pretty much the whole lane), yet it’s just one of those things that, as a driver, I have to take responsibility to look out for. Like I said, it may not be the wisest thing for a cyclist to do, but it seems to me that he has as much a right to the road as I do and my responsibility is to be wary of him and courteous. I’ve never been much of a cyclist myself, but if that’s the poor guy’s only mode of transportation, I’m not going to begrudge his use of it. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/253 "2007-03-21T07:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] Missed this. Quote: Originally Posted by lowbrass No, catsix is presenting this ridiculous exaggerated scenario where one supposedly has to drive 50 mph around blind curves and risk hitting cyclists. IN RESPONSE to that, I said that if you really did that under those cirumstances, you wouldn’t be driving correctly. I believe catsix’s position is mostly hyperbole. I believe you are concentrating too much on the speed. I have yet to see such a curve that doesn’t have a much lower posted speed. [/quote] Then you have a beef with catsix, not me. Catsix was the one who brought up the 50 mph thing. Honestly, are you even reading the thread? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/254 "2007-03-21T07:48:55Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] I don’t believe I said it _was_ an exact quote. You did say this, though: [/QUOTE] Well I’m reacting to this bizarre contention that catsix is making that it’s somehow _dangerous_ to have a bicycle on the road, when such a thing is quite commonplace and no cause for alarm whatsover. Gary Kumquat had the same kind of reaction as I did: “Really, I get worried when I hear a fellow driver tell me that he thinks such a thing is dangerous. I wonder just how much attention they’re paying, or what control they have on their vehicle, that they find themselves so worried about what should be a very simple maneuver - spot cyclist, slow down, wait till it’s safe to overtake.” See, we’re flabbergasted that anyone would make such a big deal about something that’s fairly innocuous and in fact quite a routine aspect of driving a car. The quite natural response here is to wonder, if a driver feels it’s so difficult to come to grips with the reality of a bike being on the road, how that driver is able to cope with the myriad of _other_ routine obstacles that one comes across as a matter of routine when driving a car. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/255 "2007-03-21T14:56:03Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] to have a bicycle on the road…is quite commonplace and no cause for alarm whatsover. [/quote] In many places, it’s quite common. But there are still roads where bicycling is legal, but a bicycle on those roads is an extremely rare event. The relevant question is, how commonplace is it to the person driving the road in question? If it’s something he never experiences on that road, then he’s not going to be looking for it, and it won’t really matter how commonplace it might be in Davis, CA. > [@Gary Kumquat](#): > > Really, I get worried when I hear a fellow driver tell me that he thinks such a thing is dangerous. I wonder just how much attention they’re paying, or what control they have on their vehicle, that they find themselves so worried about what should be a very simple maneuver - spot cyclist, slow down, wait till it’s safe to overtake. See the example in my previous post. There are roads out there where by the time you’ve spotted the cyclist, you don’t have much room to slow down. If it were always simple to spot things on the road well ahead of when you overtook them, I’d STFU. But that’s not the way it always is. > [@lowbrass](#): > > See, we’re flabbergasted that anyone would make such a big deal about something that’s fairly innocuous and in fact quite a routine aspect of driving a car. And again, part of the problem is that there are places where this is demonstrably false. ---
**Author:** ![Potato\_Pancakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Potato\_Pancakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potato_Pancakes)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/256 "2007-03-21T15:53:11Z")
In AZ we have miles of sidewalk that nobody uses. I’d rather ride on that then get hit by some drunk illegal with no insurance. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/257 "2007-03-21T16:19:15Z")
[QUOTE=Potato Pancakes] In AZ we have miles of sidewalk that nobody uses. I’d rather ride on that then get hit by some drunk illegal with no insurance. [/QUOTE] Why do people think sidewalks are safe? I’ve already cited one study which found that riding on the sidewalk is 1.8 times more dangerous (i.e. more likely to be killed in an accident) than riding on the road. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/258 "2007-03-21T16:43:17Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Huh? Am I supposed to lift my bike and jump over a guardrail? [/QUOTE] If necessary and possible, yes. By the way, most adults are able to _step_ over a guardrail. > [@lowbrass](#): > > Catsix was the one who brought up the 50 mph thing. Yeah, and you’re running with it–assuming that 50 mph is _always_ 50 mph. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/259 "2007-03-21T16:47:31Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] > [@lowbrass](#): > > See, we’re flabbergasted that anyone would make such a big deal about something that’s fairly innocuous and in fact quite a routine aspect of driving a car. And again, part of the problem is that there are places where this is demonstrably false. [/QUOTE] Exactly. > [@scr4](#): > > And even if there’s just the curb to deal with, do you really expect a cyclist to come to a complete stop, dismount, and lift the bike onto the curb? No, I’d expect a cyclist to ride up onto the curb, then stop. Had to do that myself once to get a one of those “bicycles do not belong on streets” types in a pickup to pass me on an otheriwise empty side street. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/260 "2007-03-21T16:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Why do people think sidewalks are safe? I’ve already cited one study which found that riding on the sidewalk is 1.8 times more dangerous (i.e. more likely to be killed in an accident) than riding on the road. [/QUOTE] As I said way back on the first page, some of the designated bike trails around here are sidewalks. There must be other factors involved in that 1.8 figure than just riding on a sidewalk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118.md?page=14)