# Adult bicyclists: get off the damn sidewalk! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118 "2007-03-16T01:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/161 "2007-03-19T18:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] I don’t think that a ten mile stretch of road a couple hundred miles away from Harrsiburg was specifically considered when deciding that bicycles are vehicles. [/quote] The state has the option of making it a limited access road, or constructing additional lanes. Obviously they didn’t think either was necessary. > [@](#): > > State law requires that slow moving vehicles not impede the flow of traffic, which means a bike going 3 mph should not be on the road with traffic that flows at 50 mph. OK, I admit I don’t know how this applies to bicycles. Can you quote or link to the relevant state law? Does it effectively ban vehicles that are incapable of travelling at the flow of traffic? I’ve never heard it interpreted that way, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/162 "2007-03-19T18:32:25Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] No, I got that you were trying to be funny, but your joke didn’t work because you choose a stupid example. If running a red light really _were_ as innocuous as reading a magazine in a store, your joke would have been funny. Since those things aren’t the same at all, your joke engenders a WTF??? reaction rather than a “ha, ha” reaction. Sorry, better luck next time. [/QUOTE] I admire your ability to respond to only a portion of my messages to avoid facing your continued hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/163 "2007-03-19T18:37:39Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] The speed limit is set at 50 mph because the state has determined that it is safe to travel that road at 50 mph. [/quote] I’m sorry, but this is a bullshit response. You may NEVER drive so fast that you do not allow yourself time to react to hazards in the road. You don’t blow through a blind curve too fast because “that’s the speed limit”. Where’d you learn to drive, the back of a matchbook? > [@](#): > > Some self-entitled asshole on a bike who can’t even manage 5 mph up that hill is not ‘reminding’ me to drive at a ‘safe speed’. They’re **creating a hazard** by being on that road traveling significantly slower than all of the traffic on it. If you’re taking 10 minutes to climb a half mile long hill, that’s 1 mile every 20 minutes or 3 miles an hour. And some of these bike riders are going slower than that. So then you take your thumb out of your mouth and safely pass them on the left like a big boy. Jesus Christ, it’s not rocket science. > [@](#): > > Or do you really think that speeds of under 5 mph are reasonable in a zone where the state has set the speed limit at 50 mph? It’s reasonable to assume that bicyclists will go as fast as they are capable. If it’s a steep hill, they aren’t going to be able to do 50 mph. Do the “tri-axle trucks carrying stone or coal” always go 50 up the hill? Do you think they should be disallowed from driving on the road? > [@](#): > > Now, going along with that, vehicles that travel significantly below the speed of general traffic are expected to pull off the road and allow others to pass. What state are you in? I’ll look up your vehicle code. In my state, bicycles are simply required to ride as far to the right as practicable. Motorists are able to pass them on the left with very little whining and complaining. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/164 "2007-03-19T18:38:43Z")
[QUOTE=Long Time Lurker] I admire your ability to respond to only a portion of my messages to avoid facing your continued hypocrisy. [/QUOTE] What is it you would like me to respond to? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/165 "2007-03-19T18:38:53Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] Does it effectively ban vehicles that are incapable of travelling at the flow of traffic? I’ve never heard it interpreted that way, but I could be wrong. [/QUOTE] There’s a difference between a _legal ban_ on cyclists on a particular road, and a _commonsense choice not to bicycle on that road_ because it’s freakin’ dangerous. **catsix** is talking about the latter; you’re conflating it into the former, AFAICT. I used to live in Bristol VA/TN. There were lots of winding roads outside of town that resembled **catsix** ’ description. I didn’t go cycling on those roads because, helmet schmelmet, I’d have needed full body armor to feel safe cycling there. And as **catsix** suggested, I’d have also felt like I was endangering any car that was courteous enough to wait behind me until it was safe to pass. It was perectly legal to bicycle on those roads; it was just a damnfool thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/166 "2007-03-19T18:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] What state are you in? I’ll look up your vehicle code. In my state, bicycles are simply required to ride as far to the right as practicable. Motorists are able to pass them on the left with very little whining and complaining. [/QUOTE] Actually I checked, no whining is required before passing in California. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/167 "2007-03-19T18:48:26Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] There’s a difference between a _legal ban_ on cyclists on a particular road, and a _commonsense choice not to bicycle on that road_ because it’s freakin’ dangerous. [/QUOTE] I find it very curious that the only people who advocate the latter are drivers. If it’s really unsafe, you’d think the cyclists would be more vocal about it. Hmm, could it be that the real issue is drivers’ _convenience_, not safety? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/168 "2007-03-19T18:59:50Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] I find it very curious that the only people who advocate the latter are drivers. If it’s really unsafe, you’d think the cyclists would be more vocal about it. Hmm, could it be that the real issue is drivers’ _convenience_, not safety? [/QUOTE] Well, obviously cyclists never drive cars themselves, and so they have no idea what it’s like to be a motorist behind a bicycle. We are completely, blissfully unaware of what it’s like to be five minutes late for work already and find you can’t go faster than 20 for a full quarter minute. We’ve never observed a cyclist making an bad decision or just being thoughtless or stupid. And that’s so important, because drivers are never thoughtless or stupid in the way they drive. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/169 "2007-03-19T19:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=scr4] I find it very curious that the only people who advocate the latter are drivers. If it’s really unsafe, you’d think the cyclists would be more vocal about it. Hmm, could it be that the real issue is drivers’ _convenience_, not safety? [/QUOTE] From post #5 in this thread: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > As a frequent cyclist, Now that we’ve cleared _that_ up, what was there to be vocal about? Demanding money from the county to straighten out or add paved shoulders to some of those 1-3/4 lane country roads? It wasn’t a particularly prosperous area, and anti-tax fever was as high in central Appalachia as pretty much anywhere else in the mid-1990s. I suppose we could have advocated that the roads be closed to motorized traffic and be maintained as bikepaths…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/170 "2007-03-19T19:51:29Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] From post #5 in this thread: [/quote] Thank you, I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/171 "2007-03-19T20:01:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **lowbrass** said: > I’m sorry, but this is a bullshit response. You may NEVER drive so fast that you do not allow yourself time to react to hazards in the road. You don’t blow through a blind curve too fast because “that’s the speed limit”. Where’d you learn to drive, the back of a matchbook? If you’re going to stick by that, then nobody in Pennsylvania should ever drive more than about 25 mph. After all, you should never drive so fast that you do not allow yourself time to react to hazards in the road, like deer that jump the guide rail 20 feet in front of your car while you’re on the interstate highway. I’m driving that road at a speed that coincides with the flow of traffic so that I don’t get hammered by a tri-axle stone cowboy from the back end and because, get this, the state driver’s manual actually says that’s what you’re supposed to do. Either keep up with traffic or move off the road and let it pass. > [@](#): > > So then you take your thumb out of your mouth and safely pass them on the left like a big boy. Jesus Christ, it’s not rocket science. You want me to cross double yellow lines to pass them on the left in oncoming traffic because they’re riding on a section of road that’s too dangerous for a bicycle to be on? > [@](#): > > It’s reasonable to assume that bicyclists will go as fast as they are capable. If it’s a steep hill, they aren’t going to be able to do 50 mph. Do the “tri-axle trucks carrying stone or coal” always go 50 up the hill? Do you think they should be disallowed from driving on the road? They’re usually hitting the bottom of the hill at 65 mph so they’ve got the momentum to carry themselves up the hill at speed. Some of them are moving slower than that, if they’ve pulled onto the road from somewhere after the bottom of that particular hill. They are, however, a lot easier to see from distance on the curves because they’re a good deal larger than some spandex clad biker. > [@](#): > > What state are you in? I’ll look up your vehicle code. In my state, bicycles are simply required to ride as far to the right as practicable. Motorists are able to pass them on the left with very little whining and complaining. I’m in Pennsylvania. The state manual provided by the DOT for driver training says that if you are traveling significantly slower than the flow of traffic on a two-lane road, you should pull over as soon as it is practical and safe and let traffic pass. > [@](#): > > **RTFirefly** said: > There’s a difference between a legal ban on cyclists on a particular road, and a commonsense choice not to bicycle on that road because it’s freakin’ dangerous. Yes, exactly. If you can’t keep up with traffic and run a good chance of being turned into road pizza, why would you want to ride your bike there? These bicycle riders have every legal right to ride along that road. However, sometimes ‘legally in the right’ is also ‘stupidly suicidal’. > [@](#): > > **scr4** said: > I find it very curious that the only people who advocate the latter are drivers. If it’s really unsafe, you’d think the cyclists would be more vocal about it. Hmm, could it be that the real issue is drivers’ convenience, not safety? The fact of the matter is, it’s dangerous whether or not they have the legal right to be there. It’s not all that common to see bicycles on that section of road, but there are a few who seem unable to resist it. They absolutely must assert their right to be on that road no matter how foolishly unsafe it is for them. And when one of them gets hit by a car, or worse, one of those big trucks with a 20 ton load, the rest will put on their best indignant tone and decry the car or truck that did nothing wrong because apparently being **right** is more important than being safe. It’s always the driver of the car who’s wrong, eh? ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/172 "2007-03-19T20:27:48Z")
[QUOTE=Epimetheus] “Simple math” has nothing to do with it. It doesn’t matter if there are 10 bikers and 10000 car drivers, if 100% of bikers run stop signs, but only 0.01% of drivers do so, then more bikers run stop signs than drivers. [/quote] Well, except for the fact that, y’know, it does. Your silly attempt at a word problem notwithstanding. > [@](#): > > Provide me a fucking site that says a higher **percentage** of drivers run stop signs than bikers, and I will believe your explanation. Otherwise, you are waving your hands and bullshitting based on a small sample size. The fact that there are more cars on the road than bikers has fuck shit to do with anything. Oh settle the fuck down. Then, after you’ve done that, go back and read what I wrote. At no point in time did I claim that a higher percentage of motorists run stop signs than cyclists. Dipshit. And there is no hand waving involved, despite your vain attempts to claim as much. The fact that there are more motorists on the road than cyclists demonstrates rather handily that I’m right. Just because you decided to claim otherwise has, as you so aptly said, fuck shit to do with anything. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/173 "2007-03-19T20:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] The fact of the matter is, it’s dangerous whether or not they have the legal right to be there. [/QUOTE] NO, this is not a fact. Assuming we are still talking about relative safety of sidewalks vs. roadways, [this study](http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm) showed that “[t]he average cyclist in this study incurs a risk on the sidewalk 1.8 times as great as on the roadway, and the result is statistically significant (p\<0.01).” ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/174 "2007-03-19T20:31:21Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] If you’re going to stick by that, then nobody in Pennsylvania should ever drive more than about 25 mph. After all, you should never drive so fast that you do not allow yourself time to react to hazards in the road, like deer that jump the guide rail 20 feet in front of your car while you’re on the interstate highway. [/quote] Your exaggerated example aside, the vehicle code is quite clear: > [@](#): > > § 3361. Driving vehicle at safe speed. > > No person shall drive a vehicle at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent **under the conditions and having regard to the actual and potential hazards then existing, nor at a speed greater than will permit the driver to bring his vehicle to a stop within the assured clear distance ahead.** Consistent with the foregoing, every person shall drive at a safe and appropriate speed when approaching and crossing an intersection or railroad grade crossing, **when approaching and going around a curve, when approaching a hill crest** , when traveling upon any narrow or winding roadway and when special hazards exist with respect to pedestrians or other traffic or by reason of weather or highway conditions. > [emphasis mine] > [@](#): > > I’m driving that road at a speed that coincides with the flow of traffic so that I don’t get hammered by a tri-axle stone cowboy from the back end and because, get this, the state driver’s manual actually says that’s what you’re supposed to do. I doubt the driver’s manual says that. > [@](#): > > Either keep up with traffic or move off the road and let it pass. Wrong. Here’s the relevant statute: > [@](#): > > § 3301 > (b) Vehicle proceeding at less than normal speed.- > > Upon all roadways any vehicle proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into an alley, private road or drive-way. This subsection does not apply to a driver who must necessarily drive in a lane other than the righthand lane to continue on his intended route. I don’t see “move off the road” there. Do you? > [@](#): > > You want me to cross double yellow lines to pass them on the left in oncoming traffic because they’re riding on a section of road that’s too dangerous for a bicycle to be on? I want you to follow the law and not make up your own laws. I said SAFELY pass on the left. If you can’t safely pass on the left at any particular instant, then you just have to wait until you can do so. I’m sorry if you feel it ruins your life to have to wait 10 seconds in order to be safe and courteous, but you’re just gonna have to suck it up. > [@](#): > > They’re usually hitting the bottom of the hill at 65 mph so they’ve got the momentum to carry themselves up the hill at speed. Some of them are moving slower than that, if they’ve pulled onto the road from somewhere after the bottom of that particular hill. They are, however, a lot easier to see from distance on the curves because they’re a good deal larger than some spandex clad biker. So now the argument has changed to one of visibility. How convenient for you. I trust you will now be able to cite a vehicle code section banning bicycles from the roadway because they’re not as visible as trucks? Oh, you can’t? I didn’t think so. > [@](#): > > I’m in Pennsylvania. The state manual provided by the DOT for driver training says that if you are traveling significantly slower than the flow of traffic on a two-lane road, you should pull over as soon as it is practical and safe and let traffic pass. I quoted the actual vehicle code. Vehicle code trumps driver training pamphlets. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/175 "2007-03-19T20:41:53Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] What state are you in? I’ll look up your vehicle code. In my state, bicycles are simply required to ride as far to the right as practicable. **Motorists are able to pass them on the left with very little whining and complaining.** [/QUOTE] (bolding mine) Not always. If you’re on a two-lane, winding rural road, especially one with a decent bit of traffic on it, you may well not be able to pass. If there’s a car coming the other way, you’re stuck behind the bike because trying to pass means running head-on into another vehicle. And I can’t speak for where **catsix** is, but where I’m from there are a lot of places I don’t feel comfortable passing anything because of all the twists, turns and hills. I don’t exactly relish the thought of trying to pass a biker and having a car show up in the other direction going 80km/h, and often I can’t see far enough up the road to see if it’s safe to pass. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/176 "2007-03-19T20:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] So now the argument has changed to one of visibility. How convenient for you. I trust you will now be able to cite a vehicle code section banning bicycles from the roadway because they’re not as visible as trucks? Oh, you can’t? I didn’t think so. [/quote] Just to reiterate: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > There’s a difference between a _legal ban_ on cyclists on a particular road, and a _commonsense choice not to bicycle on that road_ because it’s freakin’ dangerous. > [@](#): > > I quoted the actual vehicle code. Vehicle code trumps driver training pamphlets. The main thing **catsix** seems to be citing is the real-life condition of many rural roads, and the real-life behavior of many who drive them. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/177 "2007-03-19T20:49:50Z")
> [@](#): > > **scr4** said: > NO, this is not a fact. Assuming we are still talking about relative safety of sidewalks vs. roadways, this study showed that “[t]he average cyclist in this study incurs a risk on the sidewalk 1.8 times as great as on the roadway, and the result is statistically significant (p\<0.01).” No, I’m talking about a fucking windy two-lane highway with no sidewalk. Pay attention. > [@](#): > > **lowbrass** said: > I doubt the driver’s manual says that. Go get a copy. They’re free. > [@](#): > > I don’t see “move off the road” there. Do you? OOoh look at you, pasting one whole sub-section from a website. Unfortunately for you, this is the relevant section > [@](#): > > **Chapter 33 of the Pennsylvania Vehicle Code** says: > 1995 Amendment. See section 4 of Act 9 in the appendix to this title for special provisions > relating to report on effect of increased speed limit. > § 3364. Minimum speed regulation. > (a) Impeding movement of traffic prohibited.–Except when reduced speed is necessary for > safe operation or in compliance with law, no person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed > as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. > (b) Slow moving vehicle to drive off roadway.–Except when reduced speed is necessary for > safe operation or in compliance with law, whenever any person drives a vehicle upon a roadway > having width for not more than one lane of traffic in each direction at less than the maximum posted > speed and at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the driver > shall, at the first opportunity when and where it is reasonable and safe to do so and after giving > appropriate signal, drive completely off the roadway and onto the berm or shoulder of the highway. > The driver may return to the roadway after giving appropriate signal only when the movement can be > made in safety and so as not to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic And as I recall you bicycle fans pointing out, bicycles have **all the rights and responsibilities of motor vehicles when operating on the street**. > [@](#): > > I want you to follow the law and not make up your own laws. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania made up that law as a part of the Vehicle Code in 1995. > [@](#): > > So now the argument has changed to one of visibility. How convenient for you. I trust you will now be able to cite a vehicle code section banning bicycles from the roadway because they’re not as visible as trucks? Oh, you can’t? I didn’t think so. So apparently you have poor reading comprehension in addition to being a raging dickhead. As **RTFirefly** was capable of understanding, I am not talking about there being a legal ban on bicycles on particular roadways. I am saying that despite the fact that it is legal to ride one there, it is **too fucking dangerous** to do so. > [@](#): > > I quoted the actual vehicle code. Vehicle code trumps driver training pamphlets. You should’ve kept reading for a few more paragraphs. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/178 "2007-03-19T20:52:40Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] No, I’m talking about a fucking windy two-lane highway with no sidewalk. Pay attention. [/quote] Ah, so you’re just talking about the absolute danger level. How do you measure it, and what is the threshold for being too dangerous to ride? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/179 "2007-03-19T20:54:17Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] The main thing **catsix** seems to be citing is the real-life condition of many rural roads, and the real-life behavior of many who drive them. [/QUOTE] Well I would agree that if a reasonable alternative exists, that it’s better to choose the safer of two roads. For example, I will choose a more residential street as opposed to biking down the main boulevard if I can. But the sidewalk is not a reasonable alternative. And it doesn’t sound like catsix’s road even _has_ a sidewalk anyway. Catsix made the contention that bicycles DON’T BELONG on a particular road, because they don’t keep up with traffic and are hard to see: "Those on bicycles may legally have the right to bicycle that road, but I’d still consider that road a place that bicycles don’t belong. A vehicle that doesn’t keep anywhere close to the speed of traffic will be, on most parts of that road, hard to see in time to avoid, and in some places nearly impossible. " THAT’S what I disagree with. In fact, at least two people have made the contention that bicycles _don’t belong on the road_ because, among other reasons, they are _slower than cars_. This is just plain ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118/180 "2007-03-19T20:58:03Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Go get a copy. They’re free. [/quote] Fuck you. You need to provide cites. I did. It’s not difficult. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adult-bicyclists-get-off-the-damn-sidewalk/396118.md?page=10)