Adult success is inversely proportional to high school popularity

Great Debates
41

I think the assumption is too great that high school society is some self-contained universe among the kids themselves. But a lot of it has to do with staff & faculty: how easy a kid is to manage, how rewarding he or she is to mentor, etc. The adults reall do run the place, ultimately.

Another factor is home life. Unacknowledged but constant is the inability of the average person to love someone else, even (or especially) his or her own child. This gets worse after adolescence, proof of which was shown back when people had their family photos developed at labs, and it was noticed that the kids seemed to disappear at puberty.

You’re mid-teen with a mom having a bad menopause and a dad going through midlife crisis, and in the non-supportive world of school beyond your close friends, What does “status” convey?

42

What constitutes “popularity” in high school? I think the Hollywood image of a top-down social hierarchy with football players and cheerleaders at the top and pocket protector nerds on the bottom is complete bullshit. High school is not a single social universe, but a hodge podge of groups and cliques which contain a degree of overlap, but they are not tiered the way Hollywood would have us believe. In the real world, there is no elite, ruling class of popular kids,and students don’t really give much thought to the groups they aren’t a part of. The heshers and the goths don’t give a shit who the cheerleaders are, the math nerds might not be able to name a single player on the football team, and any of these kids can be just as “popular” within their own group, or set of groups as the preps and debs are within theirs.

43
  1. Success is defined as high income and employment prestige.
  2. Businesses do not pay high salaries for the fun of it.
  3. High salaries go to people that perform tasks that others either won’t do or can’t do. Prestige belongs more to the latter.
  4. Doing tasks others won’t do requires a personality that is different than most others.
  5. Doing tasks that others can’t do requires knowledge and skills acquired from years of practice. Acquiring these skills takes time.
  6. High-salaried, presigious (thus, successful) people either have different personalities or have spent much time preoccupied with learning rare tasks.
  7. Either of these traits is not conducive to popularity.

Thus, successful people were not popular in high school. The inverse is not necessarily true.

44

This statement is profound - and importantly, distinguishes between people who *naturally *look pretty, handsome, athletic, etc. and those who try to develop the right habits.

As people age, those habits usually lead to success in more than just appearances.

45

Demonstrably untrue. Success depends at least as much on ambition as skill.In many organizations the highest paid group (there may be individual outliers) is the sales staff. While sales requires a certain level of product and financial skills, it also requires a certain level of social skills.

46

I read an article that said the financial managers and execs were the fraternity leaders of college. They schmooze and ingratiate very well. They appear to friends with all kinds of people, but they have no trouble using them or cutting their throats.

47

I don’t know about that. I guess it depends on what is defined as “average” I suppose.

48

I can’t believe nobody has commented on this by pointing out he’s the character in Peanuts most likely to have a 3 way:) (With Peppermint Patty and Marcie)

49

This just seems like sour grapes to me.

Guys in my fraternity went on to become MBAs, lawyers, investment bankers, consultants, venture capitalists and VPs in corporations. I don’t think we are any more likely to “use” our friends than anyone else. And from what I’ve read on this board, I would say people like us are probably a lot LESS likely to use or be used by other people.

As F. U. Shakespeare pointed out, I think part of it is an ability or desire to embrace and work with the system and rather than constantly fight against it. If you’re one of these “screw fashion, I’m wearing sweatpants because they are comfortible” people, other people will treat you like someone who doesn’t give a shit.

50

If I may? Well, obviously, there are a myriad of factors that go into success after high school, but in my experience, the big one…bigger than education, bigger than connections, bigger, even, than money…is adaptability.

See, the thing about high school students is that they can pretty much get away with murder. Deterrance is little more than occasional lip service. Punishment, when it exists at all, is barely a wrist slap. Teachers aren’t paid enough to give a damn, principals have their own problems, parents enable and make excuses that would make a hardline Dubya supporter blush. When you get down to it, short of hacking off a limb or getting a girl pregnant, there’s virtually nothing anyone does in high school that has any long-term repercussions whatsoever.

All that changes instantly upon graduation. Just 2% of high school football players will make a college team, never mind the professional ranks, and cheerleading doesn’t pay the bills. Making a “slut list” as an adult will generate at best bored indifference. Beating up someone is a crime, and even spreading vicious, catty rumors could be grounds for a lawsuit. And a lot of fresh college students (myself included) make the unpleasant discovery that while they have total freedom, they’re expected to do something positive with it, and they can be expelled if they don’t (as I nearly was twice).

It’s a drastic, massive, bewildering change, to be sure, and some handle it better than others. The point is, there’s no reason a cool kid or jock can’t adapt. Maybe the former star halfback can’t make the Fighting Irish, but he can get a job in construction, warehousing, road repair, trucking, you name it, and if he sticks with it for a few years it’ll start paying very well. And even if the high school trendsetter can’t hack it in the fashion industry, he’s good at following trends and giving people what they want, which can make him a very effective salesman, spokesmodel, marketer, or reporter. It’s true that your typical geek usually handles the change better, mainly because he’s used to dealing with tough times, but there’s certainly no guarantee that he’ll get the big bucks and loyal wife in the end.*

(The ones who have it the worst, of course, are the worthless slimeball jerks. Yes, it’s possible to have a callous disregard for everyone and everything and live to irritate and pester and annoy and have no useful skills whatsoever and be a success, but that’s truly a zillion-to-one shot. There’s a reason Rush Limbaugh still has a job, y’know.)

So the article is kinda right in that there is a trend toward geeks being more successful, but it’s not a free ride by any means. I know that as well as anyone.

  • I should also point out that almost always, luck is a pretty big factor. Looking back on my post-high school life, I’m still astonished at how today I could’ve been either dead and rotting in a gutter or a senior manager at Wal-Mart had just a few coin flips gone the other way.
51

A zillion to TWO - you’re forgetting Howard Stern.

52

‘Success’ in life is being happy. Whether one’s happiness is derived from something as fundamental as being healthy or the more superficial like keeping up with Jones’.

To assume Gates or Zuckerberg are truly happy based on nothing but their financial success is suppositious. Some might argue Gates giving a lot of his fortune away in his twilight years is some indication of his lack of internal satisfaction with what he’s achieved. Zuckerberg’s on-going legal wranglings might also weigh a lot heavier on the fellow than Facebook’s exaggerated worth implies; and then there’s his reported psycological issues…

Although these examples likely seem to fit into the ‘dweeby poindexter pariah who made it big in the real world’ category, I don’t know if either of these guys was that ostrasized in their pupilage. Didn’t they both attend Harvard? Hardly an educational institution for the destitute and downtrodden…!

Ultimately though, if one has more time on one’s hands at school, without the lure of burgeoning sexuality, peer pressure et cetera bearing so heavily, then naturally there will be more time to study and they’re likely to be more adequately accoutered for later life.

53

I disagree with this statement. There are plenty of people who would be “happy” sponging off their parents for the rest of their lives. I would not consider them “successful”.

But you cannot argue that they are not “successful”.

Maybe it was that social oastracism that drove them to be successful. Really the whole “only happiness matters” mentality serves no purpose other than to drive people to mediocrity. Striving for nothing but being liked and accepted by everyone else and living a modest, uncomplicated lifestyle.

54

Hi everyone,

i was the Sporty kid in HS. i played basketball. Im 6’3-6’4, athletic and good looking as i was told, way above average genetics and i was known by everyone and even after i left HS too, people were still mentioning my name and remember what i did back in HS in basketball.

i won awards, Played too well in tournaments and even had a scholarship to play in Florida university but personal issues with family didn’t make me make it since im in Europe.

So i had big dreams to be a pro Athlete one day and tbh to be the best ball player i could be and stuff. Not much support from family about it though hence losing the one in a life chance.

I was also an Ok student. loved History, I even know three languages n i m very creative, or i used to be. lol!

However things didn’t happen for me as i dreamt n planned for and now im working a dead end job, boring as hell even though im thankful cuz im in a new country, alone and earning money. However an Athlete like me who plyed sports since 4, can’t be sitting in an office for 7-8 hours doing the same shit over n over again. It kills me everyday! I’m staying in shape though. thats not success for me!

I wrote this long intro. about myself just to give ppl an idea of whats goin on and went on… and say, that the term success is very subjective to the person… some people for them, what i do is success, i earn okey money but not my dream job.
for others like myself, i always dreamt of having ppl being like me, working hard, dreaming big n taking risks… having all these things… im not the next big thing in basketball. Tbh, i dont what it has to do anymore… i can talk to anyone, i can alot of things but yet, im not successful to the point of saying i can take risks and do new things cuz im in the top of the chart… u know what i mean ?

Most of my friends who were “nerds” have decent lives, some of them as i see on fb seem happy in what they do! and some pretend to be happy but they are miserable.

for me, i dont know anymore how to get to my goal anymore… i had a big plan 7 years ago but NOT anymore. I always felt like i was distant for greatness eventhough i came from apoor family " parents clean and im proud of em cuz they raised me" however, i dont know how to be what i feel i can be, its the worst thing to have some talents and you just can’t use them anymore! its kills when u end up in a dead end job on a freaking desk for 8 hours!

so yeah thats my take on this!! an Athlete, full of potential kid once!!

55

Not really, hopefully most of the people that posted in this thread almost 5 years ago, have found peace in their unfulfilled lives by now…which says there may be hope for you.

56

I’m sorry that Literary Editor gig at the New York Times didn’t work out for you, Highflya, but keep trying!

57

Let’s not be cruel to someone clearly already feeling bad about their life.

58

No.

The popular kids when I went to school were the rich kids, who then went on to prestigious universities to learn how to take over their fathers’ alerady lucrative businesses.

59

Being popular isn’t all that hard. Nerds, geeks, freaks may want to get the girl and not get picked on, but either consciously or subconsciously they aren’t willing to give up doing the things they’re interested in, being with people they like and pretending to be someone they aren’t.

That will stand them in good stead later in life for happiness, even as it makes them more unlikely to sacrifice for what others consider success.

60

Does not compute. If I’ve learned one thing from the movies of John Hughes, it’s that you can’t be a popular jock AND be friends with nerds. Unless of course you met them in Saturday school.