# Adults reciting the Pledge of Allegiance **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 7, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286 "2019-08-07T01:32:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/41 "2019-08-07T12:59:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Speaking as a non-US person : what, and I can’t stress this enough, the \*fuck \*?! Speaking as a US person: I agree. How about John Galt’s oath: _“I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”_ That should set the proper tone for any meeting. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/42 "2019-08-07T13:13:23Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The U.S. Senate begins every day’s session with a prayer and the Pledge. It’s hardly childish. Yeah! How dare you accuse a group of adults who renamed French fries “freedom fries” of being childish! Anyway, we do it in a committee that I’m on in NJ, but the committee is specifically about preparing for July 4th, so maybe it makes more sense? If you think about it, how insecure must America be that it requires kids to pledge allegiance _every day_ in school? Best not to think about it, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/43 "2019-08-07T13:21:39Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The U.S. Senate begins every day’s session with a prayer and the Pledge. It’s hardly childish. It may or may not be childish, but linking it to the US Senate isn’t making the case for you. > [@kayaker](#): > > And everyone just goes along with it? Probably. Nothing brings out the righteous pearl-clutching like someone not participating in a patriotic act. Most people probably just go along to get along. Anyway, set the flag near the door and have everyone high-five it as they enter. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/44 "2019-08-07T13:38:25Z")
I think it’s what the right wing kids are calling “virtue signaling” nowadays. It says: “Look at me, I’m patriotic, aren’t you?” It’s the same thing with prayer. (Of any religion that makes a show or a display of it.) If you really believe that it’s doing something, communicating, what have you, then you should see that it doesn’t matter if you do it quietly in your head vs. a public declaration. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/45 "2019-08-07T14:18:11Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Speaking as a US person: I agree. > > How about John Galt’s oath: > > _“I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”_ > > That should set the proper tone for any meeting. Meh. I’d suggest the Marine Drill Sergeant’s patented discussion and debate opener, which goes thus : “All right you maggots, shut your cock holsters and listen the fuck up !”. Bonus points awarded for hitting triple digit decibels. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/46 "2019-08-07T14:27:44Z")
Our fire department has this at the start of our monthly meeting. I just take it as ceremonial, and additionally void of meaning since ‘under God’ negates the pledge to country since my ‘pledge’ is to God and this nation is of lesser authority given that statement, my pledge to God overrides this pledge but allows me to take it. ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/47 "2019-08-07T14:58:05Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And everyone just goes along with it? Absolutely! I don’t know what would happen if someone remained seating, but they would certainly stand out! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/48 "2019-08-07T15:20:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Pledge reinstated at Senior Center in Friday Harbor after “credible threats of violence” > **[Pledge reinstated at Senior Center in Friday Harbor after "credible threats...](https://sanjuanislander.com/news-articles/people/29474/pledge-reinstated-at-senior-center-in-friday-harbor-after-credible-threats-of-violence)** > > Citing "credible threats of violence", Steve Schubert, the acting chair of the Mullis Center operating committee, said the committee decided to reinstitute the Pledge of Allegiance. He led the recitation of the Pledge this morning, Friday, July 5,... We’re fucking doomed. The whole damn country. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/49 "2019-08-07T15:45:41Z")
Speaking as a USA person: I have been to a whole lot of town and county meetings, as well as private organization meetings, most of them in New York State. I’ve never been to one that opened with either a pledge or a prayer – no, wait. About thirty years ago I was at a meeting of a private organization that opened with a prayer. Municipal meetings generally open with the chair saying "I call this meeting of the [x board on y date] to order. First order of business . . . " Other meetings generally open with introductions if applicable, or if not with whoever’s running them saying something along the lines of ‘okay, let’s get this meeting going’ and then moving to the first item of business. Meetings of one market I go to include a meal, and some of the members need to say grace before meals and ask the rest of us to pause and be quiet while they do so. I’ve never known them to ask to say a prayer before the meeting itself; and they don’t expect the rest of us to join in the prayer before meals, just not to talk over it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/50 "2019-08-07T16:42:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Our fire department has this at the start of our monthly meeting. I just take it as ceremonial, and additionally void of meaning since ‘under God’ negates the pledge to country since my ‘pledge’ is to God and this nation is of lesser authority given that statement, my pledge to God overrides this pledge but allows me to take it. Out of curiosity, would that be the case for all oaths and pledges? That you will not hold to them if you feel that the conflict with your pledge to God, but that you will still take them and promise to uphold them anyway? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/51 "2019-08-07T17:57:11Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > This. I find it ridiculous that we make our children recite a loyalty oath in school. Is forced patriotism real patriotism? And the anthem before sporting events is equally dumb. Except maybe for international matches. Same here … To be perfectly blunt, if I were ‘an enemy of the state’ I would have no problem standing up and reciting the floweriest most patriotic loyalty pledge possible, while planning to blow up the White House or take down the electrical grid for the Eastern States… Parroting crap does not mean you believe it and will obey it … ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/52 "2019-08-07T18:02:13Z")
Road races often begin with a prayer, down here in Georgia. I guess there’s some tiny shred of justification in that the prayer usually asks that no one get injured and everybody has fun, but it’s still pretty silly. I always make a point of stretching or tying my laces or setting my watch, for my own _amour propre_, if nothing else. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Only if they’re using the Southern Pledge of Allegiance, which contains the additional line “for two hundred and thirty-eight out of two hundred and forty-three years.” Again with the anti-Southern prejudice. Our pledge doesn’t mention anything about the Confederacy. It talks about barbecue and the SEC, instead. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/53 "2019-08-07T19:00:48Z")
There’s a car dealer here who recites the Pledge of Allegiance in his commercials, complete with a waving flag. I’d never buy a car from him. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/54 "2019-08-07T19:08:55Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I think it’s what the right wing kids are calling “virtue signaling” nowadays. It says: “Look at me, I’m patriotic, aren’t you?” It’s the same thing with prayer. (Of any religion that makes a show or a display of it.) If you really believe that it’s doing something, communicating, what have you, then you should see that it doesn’t matter if you do it quietly in your head vs. a public declaration. This, and in addition the pledge has been done at these meetings as a matter of tradition and which person wants to piss off everyone else by suggesting that it be done away with? Sure, starting from a clean slate, maybe we wouldn’t do it, but inertia is a powerful thing. Even if I hated the pledge with a passion, do I want to get something positive done at this meeting or a future one, or should I alienate myself to others when it really doesn’t make a damned bit of difference. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/55 "2019-08-07T19:13:36Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This, and in addition the pledge has been done at these meetings as a matter of tradition and which person wants to piss off everyone else by suggesting that it be done away with? > > Sure, starting from a clean slate, maybe we wouldn’t do it, but inertia is a powerful thing. Even if I hated the pledge with a passion, do I want to get something positive done at this meeting or a future one, or should I alienate myself to others when it really doesn’t make a damned bit of difference. It does make a damned bit of difference. It makes a lot of normal people very uncomfortable with nationalistic displays of false patriotism. I didn’t recite the Pledge in school and I sure as Hell wouldn’t do it as an adult. There is something seriously wrong with people who need all of us to constantly pledge allegiance to our flag or to the nation for which it stands. Do _any_ other countries on Earth do such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/56 "2019-08-07T19:13:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Out of curiosity, would that be the case for all oaths and pledges? That you will not hold to them if you feel that the conflict with your pledge to God, but that you will still take them and promise to uphold them anyway? I hope and pray to always have such strength and faith to do exactly that if needed, for what you ask can be translated to I would do the morally right thing regardless of what I have promised or committed myself to. It is for that reason that I don’t typically do such pledges, and when I do I usually add my faith and commitment to God’s Kingdom is first. However the Pledge of Allegiance has the ability to do the right thing regardless of the pledge right in the text of the pledge one takes, so it’s somewhat better in taking. The opposite can lead to the Nuremberg trials defense of “I was just following orders”, which I hope and pray I never have to use. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/57 "2019-08-07T19:16:45Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > There’s a car dealer here who recites the Pledge of Allegiance in his commercials, complete with a waving flag. > > I’d never buy a car from him. Does he do it really fast in that jam-a-bunch-of-words-in-at-the-end-of-the-ad style? That would be kind of funny. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/58 "2019-08-07T19:22:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > This, and in addition the pledge has been done at these meetings as a matter of tradition and which person wants to piss off everyone else by suggesting that it be done away with? > > Sure, starting from a clean slate, maybe we wouldn’t do it, but inertia is a powerful thing. Even if I hated the pledge with a passion, do I want to get something positive done at this meeting or a future one, or should I alienate myself to others when it really doesn’t make a damned bit of difference. If “it really doesn’t make a damned bit of difference”, why not suggest it not be done? Surely no one would have a problem with not doing the pledge if it doesn’t matter? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/59 "2019-08-07T19:44:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It does make a damned bit of difference. It makes a lot of normal people very uncomfortable with nationalistic displays of false patriotism. I didn’t recite the Pledge in school and I sure as Hell wouldn’t do it as an adult. There is something seriously wrong with people who need all of us to constantly pledge allegiance to our flag or to the nation for which it stands. Do _any_ other countries on Earth do such a thing? First, Americans don’t give two good hard fucks what other countries do. I’m not sure why this keeps coming up in debates about everything. France can do what France wants and we don’t complain. This is uniquely American, so I don’t care if Cameroon doesn’t do it. But most importantly, it is about what you are at the meeting to accomplish. You are at the condo meeting to keep people from, say, throwing cigarette butts in the entrance way. Do you want to piss off 90% of the people there by complaining about the pledge, or do you want cigarette butts out of the entrance way? Most people probably don’t care whether the pledge is recited or not, but would be suspicious of someone so offended by it as to move for its abolishment. I was simply answering why it hasn’t changed, but I find your attitude shocking and certainly not something that is mainstream. Most people just put their hands over their heart and say it even if they would rather not do it. People likely don’t care one way or the other. To care so deeply to abolish it would raise eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/60 "2019-08-07T19:46:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If “it really doesn’t make a damned bit of difference”, why not suggest it not be done? Surely no one would have a problem with not doing the pledge if it doesn’t matter? That’s what “it doesn’t matter” means. You don’t care enough to upset the status quo and “suggest it not be done.” I mean, it doesn’t matter that the chairman sits in the middle, correct? Let’s have him sit second to middle from now on. That makes no difference. Why have change just for change’s sake? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286.md?page=4)