# Adults reciting the Pledge of Allegiance **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 7, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286 "2019-08-07T01:32:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/61 "2019-08-07T19:49:15Z")
A group display of patriotism and national allegiance? At a private commercial/organizational meeting that has nothing to do with state matters? It seems fascistic to me, not childish. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/62 "2019-08-07T19:51:42Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > First, Americans don’t give two good hard fucks what other countries do. I’m not sure why this keeps coming up in debates about everything. France can do what France wants and we don’t complain. This is uniquely American, so I don’t care if Cameroon doesn’t do it. Ummm, I’m an american, and I do give at least 2 fucks about what other countries do. Or, is that a true scotsman test? > [@](#): > > But most importantly, it is about what you are at the meeting to accomplish. You are at the condo meeting to keep people from, say, throwing cigarette butts in the entrance way. Do you want to piss off 90% of the people there by complaining about the pledge, or do you want cigarette butts out of the entrance way? And no part of that has anything to do with the pledge. If they also required that everyone do the hokey pokey before the meeting started, is that something that you just need to do to avoid pissing off the guy that takes it _way_ too seriously? > [@](#): > > Most people probably don’t care whether the pledge is recited or not, but would be suspicious of someone so offended by it as to move for its abolishment. I was simply answering why it hasn’t changed, but I find your attitude shocking and certainly not something that is mainstream. Most people just put their hands over their heart and say it even if they would rather not do it. People likely don’t care one way or the other. To care so deeply to abolish it would raise eyebrows. “Go along to get along.” Words that tyrants love to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/63 "2019-08-07T19:52:51Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It does make a damned bit of difference. It makes a lot of normal people very uncomfortable with nationalistic displays of false patriotism. I didn’t recite the Pledge in school and I sure as Hell wouldn’t do it as an adult. There is something seriously wrong with people who need all of us to constantly pledge allegiance to our flag or to the nation for which it stands. Do _any_ other countries on Earth do such a thing? No. And it does make those of us who are from such countries stand out and need to show passport to people who get up in our face about “not respecting our country!!!” Uh, it’s not my country and in mine the only people who do anything remotely resembling pledging loyalty to its institutions are soldiers when they finish Basic and politicians when they take their posts… > [@UltraVires](#): > > First, Americans don’t give two good hard fucks what other countries do. You sure give a shit about what people from other countries do when faced with the need to either lie in an oath (then again, a lot of Americans apparently reckon that oaths don’t matter) or be assaulted by some asshole who can’t conceive of a white-looking person not being American. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/64 "2019-08-07T20:11:48Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I hope and pray to always have such strength and faith to do exactly that if needed, for what you ask can be translated to I would do the morally right thing regardless of what I have promised or committed myself to. > > It is for that reason that I don’t typically do such pledges, and when I do I usually add my faith and commitment to God’s Kingdom is first. However the Pledge of Allegiance has the ability to do the right thing regardless of the pledge right in the text of the pledge one takes, so it’s somewhat better in taking. > > The opposite can lead to the Nuremberg trials defense of “I was just following orders”, which I hope and pray I never have to use. I’m now picturing how you respond to, say, employment contracts. “Sorry, I can’t promise to come into work; I only make promises to god.” As for the subject, I’d refuse to come to any meeting that started with a fascistic display like that. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/65 "2019-08-07T20:30:40Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It does make a damned bit of difference. It makes a lot of normal people very uncomfortable with nationalistic displays of false patriotism. I didn’t recite the Pledge in school and I sure as Hell wouldn’t do it as an adult. There is something seriously wrong with people who need all of us to constantly pledge allegiance to our flag or to the nation for which it stands. Agreed, 200%. > [@](#): > > Do _any_ other countries on Earth do such a thing? North Korea? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/66 "2019-08-07T20:54:20Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > Is there something else we could say or do? I nominate a classic: > [@Bart Simpson](#): > > Hey, America, you’re so fine, you’re so fine you blow my mind, America. \ ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/67 "2019-08-07T21:35:46Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > When I lived in Texas, it seems that, most gatherings had an invocation of some sort. Usually it was a minister from a local church who said too much while trying to sound profound. > > I would normally just stare at the floor and bite my lip during these things. I used to work at a state government agency, where required semi-annual meetings always began with the pledge and sometimes with an invocation. I didn’t bother staring at the floor during the prayer. Just looked around the room with my hands behind my back. As for the pledge, the last few years I was there my office was just down the hall from the conference room. I learned to be soooo busy and sneak in the back 5 minutes late to avoid it. No chairs available by that time so I had to stand the whole time, but eh. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/68 "2019-08-07T21:48:52Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I used to work at a state government agency, where required semi-annual meetings always began with the pledge and sometimes with an invocation. > > I didn’t bother staring at the floor during the prayer. Just looked around the room with my hands behind my back. > > As for the pledge, the last few years I was there my office was just down the hall from the conference room. I learned to be soooo busy and sneak in the back 5 minutes late to avoid it. > > No chairs available by that time **so I had to stand** the whole time, but eh. Way to stay inconspicuous. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/69 "2019-08-07T21:57:14Z")
Stuff like reciting the Pledge or even just singing the national anthem (with the possible exception of World Cup games) freaks me out. Just feels squicky. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/70 "2019-08-07T22:20:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > First, Americans don’t give two good hard fucks what other countries do. I’m not sure why this keeps coming up in debates about everything. France can do what France wants and we don’t complain. This is uniquely American, so I don’t care if Cameroon doesn’t do it. I think it might tell us something about the propriety of such an act, if no other country in the world (except perhaps North Korea) requires a pledge of loyalty at things like Condo Association meetings. How would you feel if you had to pledge your love of country before you could get your drivers license renewed or order dinner at the local diner? It this is truly “uniquely American,” I’d sure like to understand why “we” (and only we) think it’s a god thing to do. I sure don’t. > [@](#): > > But most importantly, it is about what you are at the meeting to accomplish. You are at the condo meeting to keep people from, say, throwing cigarette butts in the entrance way. Do you want to piss off 90% of the people there by complaining about the pledge, or do you want cigarette butts out of the entrance way? I care a heck of a lot more about whether we have to recite a loyalty pledge than I care about cigarette butts in the entrance way. > [@](#): > > Most people probably don’t care whether the pledge is recited or not, but would be suspicious of someone so offended by it as to move for its abolishment. I was simply answering why it hasn’t changed, but I find your attitude shocking and certainly not something that is mainstream. Most people just put their hands over their heart and say it even if they would rather not do it. People likely don’t care one way or the other. To care so deeply to abolish it would raise eyebrows. I don’t understand why anyone would \*\*\*want \*\*\*this to be part of a ritual at a meeting or in a school. Other than “tradition,” do you have any insight? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/71 "2019-08-07T22:32:11Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Way to stay inconspicuous. > > 😃 I am unaccustomed to being inconspicuous. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/72 "2019-08-07T22:38:23Z")
I think it’s unnecessary to recite the pledge for this type of meeting unless the condo association is also the civic organization (city, county, state, or nationally organized). Someone above mentioned prayer at opening, I can certainly see that if the condo assoc. is religious in origin, as some are. Otherwise, no. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/73 "2019-08-07T23:35:59Z")
It’s silly and unnecessary, but I don’t think I’d make a stink about it. I certainly wouldn’t make a big show of refusing to recite the pledge; I would just quietly not participate. Everyone else can do what they want to do. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/74 "2019-08-07T23:41:06Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It this is truly “uniquely American,” I’d sure like to understand why “we” (and only we) think it’s a god thing to do. I sure don’t. I could be wrong about this, but I think it’s a response to godless communism and, more specifically, the fact that Joseph McCarthy created an environment of paranoia where being perceived as unamerican could literally destroy your life and career. Between ingrained habit and periodic resurgences of similar paranoia, we never got out of the habit of announcing, “No, I’m not russian, really!” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/75 "2019-08-07T23:54:41Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Between ingrained habit and periodic resurgences of similar paranoia, we never got out of the habit of announcing, “No, I’m not russian, really!” Has Trump ever been observed reciting the Pledge? If so, it shows you how little value such an exercise has. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2019, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/76 "2019-08-07T23:57:52Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’m now picturing how you respond to, say, employment contracts. “Sorry, I can’t promise to come into work; I only make promises to god.” > … I have found that it doesn’t work like that. The biblical quote that explains what our work is and how we are provided for is in the biblical quote below, the bold is the short summary. I have found that our work and employment is not these contracts, but the work God wants us to do, and in that God provides for our needs. I’ve lived that. In your example many times I was exempt from such things without even asking or mentioning a objection. So it’s nothing that has come up. In other cases there were days I was lead to go hiking during a work day (because of the people I would meet and interact with, sometimes a important work day. I would ask for the day off and give my reason, I’m going hiking, and that’s all they needed to hear. They wished me a good hike and no mention of missing a critical day was brought up. > [@Matt 6](#): > > 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[e]? > > 28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. **33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.** 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/77 "2019-08-08T00:59:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > . . . . Most people probably don’t care whether the pledge is recited or not, but would be suspicious of someone so offended by it as to move for its abolishment. I was simply answering why it hasn’t changed, but I find your attitude shocking and certainly not something that is mainstream. Most people just put their hands over their heart and say it even if they would rather not do it. People likely don’t care one way or the other. To care so deeply to abolish it would raise eyebrows. Would to care so deeply as to be offended by a proposal to drop the practice equally raise eyebrows? (Serious question from a non-American.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/78 "2019-08-08T01:04:29Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > When I lived in Texas, it seems that, most gatherings had an invocation of some sort. “Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn” ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/79 "2019-08-08T01:32:18Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > “Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn” Is it just me, or did anyone else immediately prostrate upon reading that?? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/80 "2019-08-08T01:33:05Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Anyway, set the flag near the door and have everyone high-five it as they enter. Or maybe give it a [hug](https://nypost.com/2019/06/14/white-house-tweets-photo-of-trump-hugging-old-glory-for-flag-day/). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286.md?page=5)