# Adults reciting the Pledge of Allegiance **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 7, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286 "2019-08-07T01:32:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/101 "2019-08-08T17:38:37Z")
The Pledge of Allegiance is used to start a relatively small percentage of the local governmental and political events I attend, and is always part of the meetings of the Scout troop whose committee I serve on. I’m patriotic by nature and am glad to take part. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/102 "2019-08-08T18:06:36Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s seldom\* technically required to participate, but there are places that require the bizarre ritual be performed. Sure, many of us just stand their quietly, but the sight of 20 deplorables\*\* saluting a flag can ruin the evening. I’ve heard the same argument about PDAs between gay couples - no one is required to participate, but just seeing it ruins your day. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > On top of that, nobody but nobody has ever in the history of the fucking planet ever said they were doing something or not doing something because they didn’t want to offend someone. [The St. Louis Park City Council recently tried to eliminate saying the Pledge before meetings](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/28/minnesota-city-voted-eliminate-pledge-allegiance-it-didnt-go-over-well/?noredirect=on) because it wasn’t inclusive, and so as not to intimidate new immigrants. As the cite mentions, they were more than slightly out of touch with their constituents. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/103 "2019-08-08T18:08:25Z")
I’m contrarian by nature and don’t like being told what to do. So, is there always somebody ready to pick up the mantle and carry on with these traditions? If I were designated the person in charge of the proceedings, it would just slip my mind to include the pledge. Maybe it’s something along the lines of not belonging to any organization willing to allow someone like me to become a member. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/104 "2019-08-08T18:13:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’ve heard the same argument about PDAs between gay couples - no one is required to participate, but just seeing it ruins your day. I don’t doubt that there are hateful bigots out there that would make that argument. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/105 "2019-08-08T19:01:27Z")
Guesses on how well the tradition would go over of having civic meetings begin with the “totally not mandatory” witnessing of the gay couple kissing? Sure, similar. Right. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/106 "2019-08-08T20:25:34Z")
[The ugly side of enforced patriotism.](https://missoulian.com/news/local/superior-man-believed-he-was-acting-on-trump-s-orders/article_4842efed-7f34-5855-81fb-92ad2dc0c64f.html) > [@](#): > > The attorney for a 39-year-old man charged with assaulting a child who didn’t take his hat off for the national anthem says his client, compromised by a traumatic brain injury, believes he was acting on an order from President Donald Trump. > > Superior resident Curt Brockway was charged Monday with felony assault on a minor. His defense attorney, Lance Jasper, told the Missoulian Wednesday the president’s “rhetoric” contributed to the U.S. Army veteran’s disposition when he choke-slammed a 13-year-old, fracturing his skull, at the Mineral County fairgrounds on Aug. 3. > > “His commander in chief is telling people that if they kneel, they should be fired, or if they burn a flag, they should be punished,” Jasper said. “He certainly didn’t understand it was a crime.” ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/107 "2019-08-08T20:29:19Z")
It seems a bit odd, but no odder than starting with an invocation, which is common enough. Yeah, it rankles. It’s typically the same people objecting to getting rid of the pledge that object to getting rid of the invocation. The resistance is coming from the same source, the idea that their _personal_ beliefs are being targetted and eliminated. I haven’t run into the Pledge of Allegiance, but did have a karate organization that performs the national anthem as part of the ceremony. On the one hand, I usually participated because of my own feelings. On the other hand, it was a bit awkward because we’re sort of required to make the kids participate - at least stand still. Technically, we’re to instruct them to put their hand over their heart, but I sufficed to see they weren’t being disruptive. But I also recall an incident from my sister’s high school class. This was 30 years ago, mind you. She had a friend who is Jehovah’s Witness. At a pep rally, she got in trouble for not standing for the Pledge. This is a 17 year old senior in high school. Well, my sister joined in protesting. After all, she wasn’t being disruptive, her objection was a sincere matter of conscience not just laziness or teenager obstructionism. I think the school finally gave in. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Yes, I’m curious too. The threats of violence if the Pledge is discontinued, as recounted in the news item **Procrustus** quoted in post 48 - is that a typical response? I think actual violent threats are a sign of the hostility of the internet bleeding over into real life. People get death threat phone calls and messages for stuff that happen online. It’s a sign of the hostility that people are willing to engage such tactics. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/108 "2019-08-08T20:56:47Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I think actual violent threats are a sign of the hostility of the internet bleeding over into real life. People get death threat phone calls and messages for stuff that happen online. It’s a sign of the hostility that people are willing to engage such tactics. Oh, I’m quite certain that people were hostile to The Other _long_ before there was an internet. Sometimes violently. What the internet has done is made it so that you can _always_ find an Other to be confronted by, and it has provided you was an endless army of similarly-minded people to yourself to make you feel that you are justified by The People. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/109 "2019-08-08T20:57:08Z")
People like to have a ritual to open things, does it matter what that ritual is? When I was in Boy Scouts a million years ago, we didn’t start with the pledge of allegiance to the country, we started with the scout oath. (The pledge may have been in there as well, it’s been a while, but I will at least agree that something like boy scouts has a bit more justification for displays of patriotism than your average HOA meeting.) Rather than propose to eliminate the pledge, maybe try coming up with a new, relevant one. On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to our homes and our community and to obey the HOA Law; to help other people at all times to keep their cigarette butts out of entry ways; to keep myself physically strong enough to assist in the maintenance and upkeep of our landscaping; mentally awake enough to recognize when HOA rules do not improve the community, and morally straight enough not to embezzle HOA funds. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2019, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/110 "2019-08-08T23:20:18Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I think actual violent threats are a sign of the hostility of the internet bleeding over into real life. People get death threat phone calls and messages for stuff that happen online. It’s a sign of the hostility that people are willing to engage such tactics. > [@begbert2](#): > > Oh, I’m quite certain that people were hostile to The Other _long_ before there was an internet. Sometimes violently. Yes, personal violence has been a standard tool of the cultural and political right since the beginning. You don’t even have to go back very far. Gay-bashing, anti-busing riots, lynchings, the violent repression of the labor movement, and on and on. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/111 "2019-08-09T04:53:55Z")
As an American who has lived for almost 30 years, correction, more than 30 years, overseas, the patriotism in America just seems strange ---
**Author:** ![drivekiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@drivekiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drivekiller)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/112 "2019-08-09T06:58:18Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The US Senate disharges a public function for the benefit of the republic. In that context, a formal affirmation of allegiance to the republic has a certain logic. . This is the body that refused to exercise its responsibility to approve or disapprove a president’s nominee for the supreme court. This is the body that no longer considers bills passed by the House. The logic of which you speak is corruption and hypocrisy and sabotage. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/113 "2019-08-09T07:02:57Z")
> [@drivekiller](#): > > This is the body that refused to exercise its responsibility to approve or disapprove a president’s nominee for the supreme court. This is the body that no longer considers bills passed by the House. The logic of which you speak is corruption and hypocrisy and sabotage. Can’t disagree, but the criticism there is not that they _are_ reciting the pledge of allegiance, but that they are \*not[/i[ discharging other, much more important, public duties. The problem isn['t solved, or the criticism rebutted, by getting them to discontinue reciting the pledge, is it? ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/114 "2019-08-09T09:33:59Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > At the beginning of every meeting at my condo, we are asked to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Although patriotic, this ritual seems childish since we were all compelled to recite this in school. The National Anthem is too long, and not everyone wants to sing. Is there something else we could say or do? too long??? do you say that about your . say, grateful Dead meanderings? Why do you hate America so much that 1 minute recitation is so painful? I hear so much hatred to US by so-called citizens that don’t move elsewhere! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/115 "2019-08-09T10:45:08Z")
“Hate America”? Tell me this is sarcasm. You’re joking, right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/116 "2019-08-09T11:38:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The St. Louis Park City Council recently tried to eliminate saying the Pledge before meetings because it wasn’t inclusive, and so as not to intimidate new immigrants. As the cite mentions, they were more than slightly out of touch with their constituents. > > Regards, > Shodan Close but no cigar. Stopping a practice for not being inclusive or for being intimidating is not the same as saying you don’t want to offend anyone, which nobody has ever given as a reason for doing anything. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/117 "2019-08-09T12:50:25Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Can’t disagree, but the criticism there is not that they _are_ reciting the pledge of allegiance, but that they are \*not[/i[ discharging other, much more important, public duties. The problem isn['t solved, or the criticism rebutted, by getting them to discontinue reciting the pledge, is it? At least they could be honest about it, and pledge their allegiance to their donors, rather than to the flag, for which it stands. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/118 "2019-08-10T04:00:35Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > As an American who has lived for almost 30 years, correction, more than 30 years, overseas, the patriotism in America just seems strange It’s all very insecure. We’re a country tryhards. ---
**Author:** ![edwardcoast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cab0a1/32.png) [@edwardcoast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwardcoast)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/119 "2019-08-10T05:22:27Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > At the beginning of every meeting at my condo, we are asked to stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Although patriotic, this ritual seems childish since we were all compelled to recite this in school. The National Anthem is too long, and not everyone wants to sing. Is there something else we could say or do? Yeah, tell them to skip it. It isn’t needed and serves no purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286/120 "2019-08-10T06:12:41Z")
National anthem: I’ll stand and take my hat off. I’m not putting my hand over my GD heart. I’m not that into the ritual. A vet being paraded out between innings?: Depends how tired I am. Might stand…might not. Fucking God Bless America??: I’ll stand cause its the 7th inning stretch, but I’m sure as hell not taking my hat off again. FFS The GD pledge of allegiance??? What, are we in a cult?? Are you kidding me?? I think I’ve run into it a few times at early morning assemblies for my kids. Pretty sure I stood and stared at my feet giving off my best vibe of “Don’t look at me, don’t talk to me.” Edit: As to the OP…how about someone whip out a banjo and you all sing This Land is Your Land? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/adults-reciting-the-pledge-of-allegiance/838286.md?page=7)