# Advice columnist: Trump raped me in a fitting room **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042 "2019-06-25T16:34:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/242 "2019-06-29T18:00:32Z")
Scylla, your trauma wasn’t anyone’ fault. Imagine for a moment that it was. , And that person is rich, and powerful, and you know the cards are stacked against burn victims - in fact in your state, someone could burn their spouse without legal repercussions just a few years earlier. While that’s not your situation, you have seen other people being denied justice repeatedly. So you deal with your trauma, because you don’t have the emotional strength to to be essentially put on trial for being a burn victim. Years later you write a book. And society has grown and changed and maybe burn victims aren’t treated like they asked for it, not always anyway, y and you want to tell your story of your trauma. And people say you’re a liar because you didn’t go to the police immediately, and you didn’t react the way they think you should react. They would have done x, y, and, z, since you didn’t, it wasn’t really what you say it was. Maybe you’re lying, maybe you burned yourself. Maybe you weren’t burned at all! Does that mean you shouldn’t tell your story? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/243 "2019-06-29T18:02:34Z")
Has Trump sued any of his accusers for defamation? By my count there should be at least 21 lawsuits. When should we expect him to sue Carroll? Going by the logic espoused in this thread, Trump shouldn’t expect us to take his claims of innocence seriously. By not using the system to seek justice, he’s giving people license to commit “crimes” like this over and over again…not just against him but other men. For a man with his money and power, isn’t it the height of irresponsibility for him to not even challenge these accusers in a court of law? **Scylla** , you can’t have it both ways. If Trump was a woman claiming to have been raped 22 times by 22 different men but didn’t report any of these attacks to the police, by your own words, you wouldn’t take Trump seriously. But for some reason, now, you seem to assign credence to his claim that he didn’t rape anyone, despite never taking steps to clear his name the 21 other times he’s been accused of rape/sexual assault. Since Trump isn’t exactly a stranger to suing people, the most parsimonious explanation is these accusations are true and Trump knows it. He doesn’t care about seeking justice against false accusers because he doesn’t care about justice at all. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/244 "2019-06-29T19:15:08Z")
Good article on the consequences of false rape allegations: [https://world.wng.org/2019/03/false\_convictions\_ruined\_lives](https://world.wng.org/2019/03/false_convictions_ruined_lives) FBI puts the number as high as 7-8%. This, of course, is for the ones that are reported to the police. It doesn’t include the ones that are made casually or just through the media ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/245 "2019-06-29T19:31:33Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I recommend [Carroll’s piece at The Cut](https://www.thecut.com/2019/06/donald-trump-assault-e-jean-carroll-other-hideous-men.html)(excerpted from her book); it is, besides describing all-too-common horrors, chock-a-block with jokes. It’s obvious that humor is a coping strategy for her. > > Or: Where is this “humour” you allege? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/246 "2019-06-29T19:35:36Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Good article on the consequences of false rape allegations: > > [https://world.wng.org/2019/03/false\_convictions\_ruined\_lives](https://world.wng.org/2019/03/false_convictions_ruined_lives) > > FBI puts the number as high as 7-8%. This, of course, is for the ones that are reported to the police. It doesn’t include the ones that are made casually or just through the media Does the FBI mention what percent of those supposedly falsely accused were people that openly bragged about sexual exploitation? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/247 "2019-06-29T19:39:47Z")
My best friend is my cousin. She and I (a guy) share all of our thoughts. We where born a week apart. I know her quite well. About 15 years ago, a friend of a friend knocked on her door one night. She let him in as she did recognize him. He proceeded to try to rape her. She landed a very lucky punch, broke his nose and got him out of her apartment. Cops came and took her out of her apartment in handcuffs. She was arrested and spent the night in jail. To be let out with apologies from the judge the next day. The guy ended up with a broken nose but no charges where brought against him. Not prosecutable. His word against hers. She is not a violent person in any way shape or form, and I think I’m one of two people that she has confided to about this. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/248 "2019-06-29T19:40:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The normal channels are failing these women. So they’re speaking out. They’re not organizing vigilante squads, or lynching menfolk, or anything like that. They’re just telling their stories, loudly and to the media. > > That should be welcomed, not denigrated. There’s no other option for so many of these women, since law enforcement has so often failed. Normal channels would be police / DA. Did they do that? Abnormal channels would be multi-media self-promotion via purported victimhood. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/249 "2019-06-29T19:53:49Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > FBI puts the number as high as 7-8%. Let’s accept this figure as accurate and go with eight percent. That means ninety-two percent of accusations are true. Trump’s been accused sixteen times (or more). Let’s go with the low figure of sixteen. Run the numbers. They say that there’s 99.9999999999999995601953% chance that Trump is guilty. And a .0000000000000004398047% chance he’s innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/250 "2019-06-29T20:04:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m unconvinced that this is being weaponized against the innocent. I’ve seen no evidence for it. Kavanaugh has suffered nothing (he’s at the peak of his profession), and I see no evidence his accusers were lying. Trump has certainly suffered nothing. The ones who have suffered are being prosecuted – they’ve either been found guilty (Cosby) or they will be tried (Weinstein). > > I don’t believe false accusations are easy to manufacture – journalists actually check these things, and in my understanding they regularly get anonymous tips that they check and turn out to be baseless (and we never hear of). > > Broadly speaking, society is still massively tilted in favor of powerful abusers and against their victims and survivors. Until we tilt it back to the point of fairness, I’m going to worry much, much more about those victims and survivors (and accusers) than the accused. You should too. Trump has a team of corrupt lawyers to denigrate and defame Carroll and defend him… he doesn’t need you. Oh for Christ’s sake man. Again you are unconvinced. Fuck! Is it being weaponized? Yes. There are clear cut examples of it. Is it weaponized in most or even many cases? No, very few. Do journalists get duped? Yes and one would have to be institutionalizably naive to believe otherwise. Do some journalists make shit up or act dishonestly to further their career? See the answer to “do they get duped.” Here is the thing, 25 years after an unreported rape there is no evidence. There is no rape kit, pictures, worthwhile testimony - nothing. It becomes nothing more than he said, she said. I’ll be fucked if I’ll call anyone a rapist based on nothing more than that. I hate to defend Trump. I have \<0% doubt that Trump has forced himself on women in the past - possibly present. But that is belief, not knowledge. Here are some questions for you: 1)Why do these women chose to reveal their “shocking secret” at a time and in a way that they profit from? Why always the big publicity grab? 2) Why is there so much evidence - actual evidence - against Weinstein and Cosby and the like but none against Trump? Not one police report, not one teary confession to a friend, not even an accusatory fucking poem. I grant that not all victims react alike - nor should tbey be expected to and it would be highly questionable if they did. Oooh right, in this case all of the victims did react the same way - absolute siilence until the candidacy/Presidency. A very public and splashy announcement that they certainly never profit from. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/251 "2019-06-29T20:17:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Let’s accept this figure as accurate and go with eight percent. That means ninety-two percent of accusations are true. > > Trump’s been accused sixteen times (or more). Let’s go with the low figure of sixteen. > > Run the numbers. They say that there’s 99.9999999999999995601953% chance that Trump is guilty. And a .0000000000000004398047% chance he’s innocent. I agree that Trump has done some bad things. I’m not discussing Trump’s record in general, just this one single allegation. FYI, that’s not really how statistics work, and you can’t apply the #s that way. Ever roll three sevens in a row? Ever get dealt blackjack twice in a row? That latter has a .00016 probability but it happens. Additionally, you are not taking environmental statistics into account. I.e. your chances of getting attacked by a shark while swimming are one in many million. However if you Swim off the beach of the Farrolon islands during seal breeding season your chances approach 100% Similarly, it seems that famous and powerful people attract these actions at a higher level than the general public. Biden took a bunch of them not too long ago. Finally that statistic is just for ones that are reported to the police. Filing a false police report carries a penalty. I don’t have statistics for ones that are made but not reported to the police. However, it is probably reasonable to guess that these would have a higher rate since they could be made with fewer consequences. None of this is a defense of Trump. I just don’t like the way you took liberty with the statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/252 "2019-06-29T20:25:15Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > FBI puts the number as high as 7-8%. > [@](#): > > This estimate, however, does not appear in subsequent FBI reports.[37][38][39] This estimate was criticised by academic Bruce Gross as **almost meaningless as many jurisdictions from which FBI collects data use different definition of “unfounded”** , which, he wrote, includes cases where the victim did not physically fight off the suspect or the suspect did not use a weapon, and cases where the victim had a prior relationship to the suspect.[13] > **[False accusation of rape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#FBI_statistics_(1995%E2%80%931997))** > > A false accusation of rape happens when a person states that they or another person have been raped when no rape has occurred. > Although there are widely varying estimates of the prevalence of false accusation of rape, according to a 2013 book on forensic victimology, very few reliable scientific studies have been conducted. > Rates of false accusation are sometimes inflated or misrepresented due to conflation of false with designations such as unfounded. Designations such as unfounded allow law... …a dubious statistic that hasn’t been updated since 1997. > [@Scylla](#): > > I just don’t like the way you took liberty with the statistics. LOL. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/253 "2019-06-29T20:25:42Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Normal channels would be police / DA. Did they do that? > > Abnormal channels would be multi-media self-promotion via purported victimhood. In many cases, yes. Certainly among the victims and survivors I know – generally, the police treated them like crap. > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Oh for Christ’s sake man. Again you are unconvinced. Fuck! > > Is it being weaponized? Yes. There are clear cut examples of it. Is it weaponized in most or even many cases? No, very few. Do journalists get duped? Yes and one would have to be institutionalizably naive to believe otherwise. Do some journalists make shit up or act dishonestly to further their career? See the answer to “do they get duped.” > > Here is the thing, 25 years after an unreported rape there is no evidence. There is no rape kit, pictures, worthwhile testimony - nothing. It becomes nothing more than he said, she said. I’ll be fucked if I’ll call anyone a rapist based on nothing more than that. I agree – I call Trump a rapist because of the over 20 accusations, plus Trump’s own words. > [@](#): > > I hate to defend Trump. I have \<0% doubt that Trump has forced himself on women in the past - possibly present. But that is belief, not knowledge. > > Here are some questions for you: 1)Why do these women chose to reveal their “shocking secret” at a time and in a way that they profit from? Why always the big publicity grab? 2) Why is there so much evidence - actual evidence - against Weinstein and Cosby and the like but none against Trump? Not one police report, not one teary confession to a friend, not even an accusatory fucking poem. 1. I don’t think this is the case. Most of them did not profit from speaking out. Many of them suffered for it. 2. In my understanding, the vast majority of the evidence against Weinstein and Cosby is the accounts and testimony of the victims/survivors; i.e. the same type of evidence that would likely be present in any prosecution of Trump. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/254 "2019-06-29T20:31:16Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Andy: > > Let’s be clear. Again. This is not about Trump. I am not defending Trump. I am consistent in my beliefs and would do the same if it were against anyone else. > I am looking at the merits of the accusation alone. I have not denigrated the women or made any derogatory comments about how that extend outside of the immediate scope of the narrative that she voluntarily put into the public eye in lieu of going to the police. > With that said, I don’t see us making any further headway here. I am looking at the merits of this accusation in the context of the present, which includes many other allegations and Trump’s own words. IMO you have indeed denigrated Carroll by accusing her of dishonesty with no actual evidence. But you’re probably right, we’re not going to make any further headway here. I suspect the difference in our outlook stems from the same source as the difference in most of our political opinions – I suspect you see the American system and American society as, broadly speaking, just and fair, and I see the American system and our society as, broadly speaking, lacking fairness and justice, with only an illusion of fairness and justice. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/255 "2019-06-29T20:55:47Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Good article on the consequences of false rape allegations: > > [https://world.wng.org/2019/03/false\_convictions\_ruined\_lives](https://world.wng.org/2019/03/false_convictions_ruined_lives) > > FBI puts the number as high as 7-8%. This, of course, is for the ones that are reported to the police. It doesn’t include the ones that are made casually or just through the media Here’s a story of an unfounded rape accusation: > **[An Unbelievable Story of Rape](https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story)** > > An 18-year-old said she was attacked at knifepoint. Then she said she made it up. That’s where our story begins. I’ve posted this story before. I think I may have even read it here first. This case is/was included in unfounded statistics- until it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/256 "2019-06-29T21:01:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The accuser has what appears to be an unusual reaction to the alleged rape. She says that she [regrets not asking Trump for his tax returns](https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/06/23/something-not-right-about-latest-accusation-against-trump/), and that she doesn’t want to press charges because [it would be disrespectful to women being raped at the border](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cnn-cuts-to-commercial-trump-accuser-jean-carroll-calls-rape-sexy). > > She also believes that most people think rape is sexy, which I for one do not. I’m skeptical about this whole story for a number of reasons. Did nobody notice that a man, especially a famous one, was lurking around the women’s room, and didn’t anyone hear anything? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/257 "2019-06-29T21:47:56Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Here’s a story of an unfounded rape accusation: > > [An Unbelievable Story of Rape — ProPublica](https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story) > > I’ve posted this story before. I think I may have even read it here first. This case is/was included in unfounded statistics- until it wasn’t. I read it the first time you posted it. I’m not sure what your point is. Is it that the police get it wrong sometimes? Ultimately they did get it right, you know? Are you expecting that the world is fair, and reporting a crime automatically means justice gets done with 100% accuracy. You also realize selection bias plays a part here. It doesn’t make a big new story and get people in an uproar when the police get it caught. If I search for airplane crashes, I can provide 100s or 1000s of news stories where planes crashed. How many news stories are there about when a plane takes off and lands and nothing goes wrong? You’ve shown this twice, so what are you trying to tell me with it? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/258 "2019-06-29T21:51:51Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Are you expecting that the world is fair …you concede the “world isn’t fair?” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/259 "2019-06-29T22:02:11Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Are you expecting that the world is fair, and reporting a crime automatically means justice gets done with 100% accuracy. This is just a cop-out. The system we are talking about encompasses a lot more than the police and courts. It’s everything in society. The system is a lot more fair to the Clarence Thomases, Brett Kavanaughs, and Donald Trumps of the world than it is to the Anita Hills, Christine Blasey Fords, and E. Jean Carrolls of the world. Big what this goes to show again is that conservatism has only one principle, and that is the protection of the status quo hierarchy. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/260 "2019-06-29T22:04:31Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I read it the first time you posted it. > > I’m not sure what your point is. Is it that the police get it wrong sometimes? Ultimately they did get it right, you know? > > Are you expecting that the world is fair, and reporting a crime automatically means justice gets done with 100% accuracy. > > You also realize selection bias plays a part here. It doesn’t make a big new story and get people in an uproar when the police get it caught. > > If I search for airplane crashes, I can provide 100s or 1000s of news stories where planes crashed. How many news stories are there about when a plane takes off and lands and nothing goes wrong? > > You’ve shown this twice, so what are you trying to tell me with it? The point is that “unfounded” accusations are not the same thing as false accusations. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/261 "2019-06-29T22:09:20Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I read it the first time you posted it. > > I’m not sure what your point is. Is it that the police get it wrong sometimes? Ultimately they did get it right, you know? > > Are you expecting that the world is fair, and reporting a crime automatically means justice gets done with 100% accuracy. > > You also realize selection bias plays a part here. It doesn’t make a big new story and get people in an uproar when the police get it caught. > > If I search for airplane crashes, I can provide 100s or 1000s of news stories where planes crashed. How many news stories are there about when a plane takes off and lands and nothing goes wrong? > > You’ve shown this twice, so what are you trying to tell me with it? “Ultimately they got it right” because they caught the rapist on another rape and found he had taken pictures of her. Not because they didn’t give up, or because someone believed her- the police department she reported it to prosecuted her for a false report that wasn’t false. Tell me again about how many reports are deemed “unfounded.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042.md?page=14)