# Advice columnist: Trump raped me in a fitting room **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042 "2019-06-25T16:34:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/81 "2019-06-27T18:10:09Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I’m surprised no one has called out this comment yet. Are you aware of how common sexual assault is? > > Good grief. I’ve been sexually assaulted three times (or rather, by three men - one of them more than once) and I think I’ve led quite a sheltered and lucky life. > > Tell me, **spifflog** , how many times can a woman claim she’s been assaulted and still remain credible in your book? If she’s been assaulted three times you’ll believe her, but four times and you won’t? Well, if you didn’t immediately report it to authorities, I certainly hope you at least had the good sense to document them in your daily journal for posterity. 20 years hence, someone will demand detailed proof and witness accounts, and they’ll want to avoid a lengthy search. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/82 "2019-06-27T18:36:18Z")
_Again_ we have to through this date crap? People don’t recall the exact date something traumatic happened because the date, itself is not relevant to the experience. When people DO recall the date, it’s almost invariably only because they can connect that experience to something else or if they’ve seen and heard the date repeatedly. Example: Most people who were alive when JFK was assassinated can recall exactly what they were doing when they heard the news, but very few can recall the date from the experience, itself. If they can tell you the date, it’s because A) they’ve read “November 22, 1963” so many times, the date is affixed in their memories or B) they connect it to some other event: “I remember it was November 22nd, 1963 because it was my tenth birthday.” One more time for those in the back: not recalling the date is indicative of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/83 "2019-06-27T18:39:17Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I (a straight man) was sexually assaulted by a man as a young adult, a bit over twenty years ago as it happens, and the only times I’ve even mentioned it have been in semi-anonymous online forums like this one. I haven’t even talked about it with my long-term girlfriend. I’ve never told the whole story to anyone. I couldn’t, at this point. > > I just tried to forget it. Mostly, I have. I don’t remember his name, or even what year it happened. But I remember lots of other details: where we met, what he said to get me to his house, what his house looked like, and so on. > > So I don’t find it hard to understand why women, and all people, don’t report this stuff when it happens. I’m not sure I want to post this, frankly, but fuck it, I will, because maybe it will change some other man’s thinking about this stuff. I am so sorry this happened to you. You are not alone. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/84 "2019-06-27T18:40:06Z")
Just tossing in my $0.02 for posterity: I believe E. Jean Carroll. I also wonder why now? #MeToo has been going a long time. There is a long list of women accusing Trump. Why wait till now to spill the beans? Seems very self-serving to me. But, like Colbert said, if you claim one person pooped in your sink it may be dismissed but when it is 22 people…not so easy to dismiss. Trump being all rapey is not a hard sell. We have him tape bragging about sexual assault. My conundrum here isn’t believing this woman but trying to separate what seems an intensely self-serving revelation on her part with yet more evidence we have that a rapist is in the White House. They are two separate things I guess. She is using this for her own benefit and he is a rapist…again. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/85 "2019-06-27T18:45:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > This. > > Plus the conviction rate on rape charges is astonishingly low. Hell, the _indictment_ rate is astonishingly low. One reason is the [unconscionable backlog in the processing of rape kits.](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-rape-kits-20180521-story.html) This is a California story, but Washington Post also ran a story (link came up in Google, but clicking though gave me a 404). Even when women come forward promptly and get a rape kit done, the kit often then sits gathering dust for years. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/86 "2019-06-27T18:51:27Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > And at some point, you have to ask “why didn’t this come out 20 years ago?” > > Hell I think he’s a pig. And I don’t like the guy. But what took her 20 frick’n years to come forward? Why now? And why has this woman been assaulted by so many men? > > No one is condoning rape or assault. But it’s pretty f’ing hard to prove a negative, and it’s really hard to prove a negative 20 years later. At some point, you’ve allowed your opportunity at outrage pass. People do not come forward at the time for many reasons: they do not feel string enough, they do not have the support they need, they know they won’t be believed. And as far as being assaulted by “so many men” - I hate to use a cliché, but #MeToo. Honestly, some times it does start to feel like maybe I have put out some kind of beacon that calls to sexual predators (actually trauma can cause you to become numb to ‘warning signs’ that others may notice). As far as her not remembering the date, I don’t remember the date one of my military instructors physically would not let me leave the room, even after I told him I did not want to, and I was on my period. He finally relented, after forcefully putting his fingers inside of me to confirm the presence of blood. I could not remember the date, or even his name (even though he had been my instructor for weeks). But I remember exactly what it felt like to have him inside me. And others, ones that grabbed my breasts or stuck their tongues down my throat while others laughed, or raped me. Coming forward sucks. It really does. People call you a liar, a slut, a whore, or worse. If they do believe you, it changes how they look at you. But I still talk about it, because other people out there, suffering, because they don’t have the support or feel they have the strength, they need to hear it. They need to hear that you can heal, you can live with it. That being sexually assaulted is a terrible thing, but it does not have the define you. So, yes, I believe her. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/87 "2019-06-27T18:54:48Z")
Thanks for sharing, **Poysyn** , and very sorry that you had to go through that. People handle trauma in different ways, even many years later. It’s wrong to try and find an excuse to dismiss and denigrate a woman when she comes forward just because her story might reflect poorly on someone in your preferred political party. Some of the posters in this thread are doing this, and it’s absolutely terrible. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/88 "2019-06-27T19:06:13Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I’ve been sexually assaulted three times (or rather, by three men - one of them more than once) and I think I’ve led quite a sheltered and lucky life. I’m sorry, and I think it’s great that you tell people about your experiences. People don’t like to talk about this stuff, and it’s so common. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/89 "2019-06-27T19:08:17Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > So, yes, I believe her. Oh god, that’s awful. Thank you for sharing that. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/90 "2019-06-27T19:23:42Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Exactly how does this apply to determining a fact? Walk me through it. Either something happened or it didn’t. What is the relevance of whether reporting that it happened was “authorized,” whatever that’s supposed to mean? What it means is if one wants their allegations of a crime to be either taken seriously or to be acted on, waiting 20 years to report it isn’t the answer. Reporting in a book that you’re trying to sell doesn’t help either. I understand all of the arguments about reporting and discussing rape. But this is an educated, intelligent woman with some means who swam in some pretty big ponds in her day. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own life and concerns. She wasn’t a poor, uneducated 16 year old in a factory in 1800. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/91 "2019-06-27T19:27:05Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > What it means is if one wants their allegations of a crime to be either taken seriously or to be acted on, waiting 20 years to report it isn’t the answer. This dooms huge numbers of women to be dismissed and denigrated, because they happened to be raped at a time in which to report them could be life-alteringly horrible. > [@](#): > > Reporting in a book that you’re trying to sell doesn’t help either. Irrelevant. Unless you have evidence she’s lying. > [@](#): > > I understand all of the arguments about reporting and discussing rape. But this is an educated, intelligent woman with some means who swam in some pretty big ponds in her day. At some point you have to take responsibility for your own life and concerns. She wasn’t a poor, uneducated 16 year old in a factory in 1800. What does this have to do with her credibility? Trump bragged about sexual assault and violating women’s consent on multiple occasions, and he’s been accused of sexual assault and rape by over 20 women. And every time a woman comes forward, they get death threats and worse, in addition to strangers like you dismissing and denigrating them for speaking out about their experiences. It’s not a shock women don’t come forward sooner – it’s a shock that they come forward _at all_, thanks to reactions like yours. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/92 "2019-06-27T19:28:31Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Coming forward sucks. It really does. People call you a liar, a slut, a whore, or worse. If they do believe you, it changes how they look at you. > > But I still talk about it, because other people out there, suffering, because they don’t have the support or feel they have the strength, they need to hear it. They need to hear that you can heal, you can live with it. That being sexually assaulted is a terrible thing, but it does not have the define you. > > So, yes, I believe her. I’m just appalled that people don’t understand this, even if they haven’t experienced this kind of stuff themselves or heard about it from loved ones. I hope that people testifying will make some difference in people’s attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/93 "2019-06-27T21:16:01Z")
> [@Whack-A-Mole](#): > > My conundrum here isn’t believing this woman but trying to separate what seems an intensely self-serving revelation on her part with yet more evidence we have that a rapist is in the White House. At no point in time could she have reported this and _not_ been accused of this. As a well-known columnist who has written several books over the decades, the “any publicity, is good publicity” motive could’ve applied just as easily 20 years ago as it does now. For someone like her who did have a small amount of celebrity to her name, her career could’ve taken a big hit if she’d reported Trump to the police. She, after all, dispensed advice to Elle readership. Knowing good and well her actions would’ve been put under the microscope and torn apart if she’d been outed as the accuser in a rape case against DJT, she had a choice to make. Sacrifice her reputation, her career, and the dreams she been working for by going to the police, or keeping the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/94 "2019-06-27T21:23:02Z")
**Poysyn** and **Snoe** , I thank you for sharing. You are both incredibly strong for having done so. As to why Ms. Carroll didn’t report sooner. She has given an [explanation](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/trump-rape-accusation-e-jean-carroll-new-book/1550441001/). Whether you agree or not, at least give her the benefit of her own words on the issue. > [@](#): > > “Receiving death threats, being driven from my home, being dismissed, being dragged through the mud, and joining the 15 women who’ve come forward with credible stories about how the man grabbed, badgered, belittled, mauled, molested, and assaulted them, only to see the man turn it around, deny, threaten, and attack them, never sounded like much fun,” she said. “Also, I am a coward.” ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/95 "2019-06-27T21:56:18Z")
How sad is it that people that are sexually violated don’t come forward, because they don’t think they will be believed? To me, that is terribly sad. I am happy she finally feels strong enough to come forward. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/96 "2019-06-27T22:07:29Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > At no point in time could she have reported this and _not_ been accused of this. As a well-known columnist who has written several books over the decades, the “any publicity, is good publicity” motive could’ve applied just as easily 20 years ago as it does now. > > For someone like her who did have a small amount of celebrity to her name, her career could’ve taken a big hit if she’d reported Trump to the police. She, after all, dispensed advice to Elle readership. Knowing good and well her actions would’ve been put under the microscope and torn apart if she’d been outed as the accuser in a rape case against DJT, she had a choice to make. Sacrifice her reputation, her career, and the dreams she been working for by going to the police, or keeping the status quo. That may well be. I confess to being uncomfortable with anyone being silent about a serious and violent crime, one perpetrated on them, only to pipe up about it decades later. It leaves the accused in a distinctly bad position to defend themself. I get there are reasons why a woman may not have come forward at the time it happened but it remains deeply problematic. In this case we have someone coming forward waaaaay after other women have done so publicly. Waaaaaay after it matters for an election. Waaaaaay after society has been accommodating to such revelations. Yet someone who puts forward these revelations at the same time she is [promoting a book she just wrote.](https://bookriot.com/2019/06/25/e-jean-carroll-writes-that-donald-trump-raped-her-in-new-book/) I am not questioning her veracity so much as her timing. I think she can be telling the truth and still be a shithead on the self-serving timing. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/98 "2019-06-27T22:28:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I confess to being uncomfortable with anyone being silent about a serious and violent crime, one perpetrated on them, only to pipe up about it decades later. It leaves the accused in a distinctly bad position to defend themself. If you think Trump did it (and has zero remorse for doing so), then why care about him being in a bad position? I believe in saving concern for all the people he’s hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/99 "2019-06-27T22:33:28Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Yeah, it’s Trump. And as you note, the creepiness is not out of character for him. It _is_ his character. > > But you think him committing rape is just a bridge too far? Not at all. I am not going to judge the allegation by my opinion of Trump’s character (which is very negative with regards to how he treats women) but by the merits of the accusation. > [@](#): > > I will ask you what I asked **Shodan**. What would it take for you to believe a woman claiming Trump raped her? Is there any scenario that would not make you say it’s a lie? What would that scenario look like? Your question is insulting 1. I didn’t quite call this women a liar. I responded to Rickjay who said that there was nothing that was hard to believe about her story. There are in fact some things that make it hard to believe. But I guess that is close enough to me calling her a liar, so ok. The point is that Trump doesn’t have anything to do with it. I seek to be objective and apply an objective standard. I’d like to think I would apply the same standards to Hitler as to Ghandi. Your question then is really what constitutes a “good “ accusation. By good, I mean one that is actionable, demands my attention and support, i.e take it seriously. By contrast the less “good” it is, the less I take it seriously. So, I’m an attempt to be objective and fair here in order of importance are the components of accusations: 1. The accuser needs to make their accusation seriously. They have to appeal to the authorities in place to deal with this. If you are accusing somebody of a crime you have to report it to the police, and be willing to prosecute. If it’s not a crime you should be reporting it to the highest authority pertinent. If you are not willing to make an official complaint, I don’t think you are taking your accusation seriously, so neither should I. You have to seek justice through the process and you have to cooperate with the process. 2. The more proof and evidence you have of your accusation the more credible it is and the more seriously I take it. Not just quantity of evidence but quality too. A story is just a story. What elevates what you are saying beyond a story. Do you have physical evidence, witnesses what can you show to document your story? 3. Is the accusation contemporaneous? Contemporaneous is better. Memories change. It’s harder to prove something that happened 20 years ago. I know that sucks and it’s not fair, but it is also true. 4. Are there possible ulterior motives? Is there something to be gained by making the accusation or something to be lost? 5. How “pat” is the story? I distrust accusations that fit a narrative everybody “knows” 6. How credible is the accuser personally? That’s it. I’m a big believer in innocent until proven guilty. I think somebody being falsely punished for a crime is worse than letting s crime go unpunished. The unfortunate fact is that false accusations are commonplace. I don’t believe stories. I believe facts. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/100 "2019-06-27T22:47:12Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The unfortunate fact is that false accusations are commonplace. I don’t believe stories. I believe facts. Scylla, I love you. You are one of my absolute favourite posters. I vehemently disagree with some of what you are saying - mostly because I actually know how hard it is to report to the police. But - this is actually factually wrong. False accusations are **NOT** commonplace. Actually, the percentage of false accusations for sexual assault are lower than for other crimes - such as car theft. Here is one cite: > **[Almost No One Is Falsely Accused of Rape](https://www.thecut.com/article/false-rape-accusations.html)** > > Why that “5 percent of rape allegations are false” figure is so misleading. It is also one of, if not the only, crime you have to prove you were a victim of - generally you don’t have to prove you were mugged, instead of just loaning the money. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/101 "2019-06-27T22:53:24Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > _Again_ we have to through this date crap? > > People don’t recall the exact date something traumatic happened because the date, itself is not relevant to the experience. When people DO recall the date, it’s almost invariably only because they can connect that experience to something else or if they’ve seen and heard the date repeatedly. Ever hear of that holiday called Christmas? All department stores decorate their show floors for the holiday and play Christmas music. Surely, Carroll could have remembered those details and narrowed down the dates when it could have happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042.md?page=6)