# Advice columnist: Trump raped me in a fitting room **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042 "2019-06-25T16:34:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/122 "2019-06-28T03:12:08Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You are either completely and obviously wrong or else I just don’t quite get what you mean. I kind of think you always have to prove that a crime happened when you make an accusation. Do you mean that rape requires special challenges to proof in some circumstances? I agree. A woman who is beaten and raped by a stranger she never met and who bears evidence of the attack is going to have an easy job convincing a policemen she was raped (at least I hope so.) A woman who was raped by her boyfriend with whom she had previously had consensual sex might have a more difficult time. She might not receive the sympathy and consideration she deserves. Is that what you mean? > > I agree. Do you agree that this is not exactly what is happening with this person seems to be doing? > > That is a good rebuttal. I would counter with this: > [Ultimate Coconut Cake™ – Peninsula Grill](https://www.peninsulagrill.com/main/ultimate-coconut-cake) > > To be fair it does have vanilla in it. What I mean is, rape is the only crime that I have to fight to prove I did not consent to - if I am beaten, it would be pretty odd for anyone to say “Really, Poysyn, are you sure you did not just join some crazy fight club thing?” But if I am raped, I have to prove that no, I did not want that person inside of me. Victims of crime are (generally) given the benefit of the doubt that the crime happened. Except with sexual assault. Which sucks. At the end of the day, the ideal solution is if people let the investigation do it’s job, but support the person victimized at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/123 "2019-06-28T03:38:59Z")
Ugh. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/124 "2019-06-28T03:40:47Z")
and now repeating myself. Awesome. Going to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/125 "2019-06-28T04:21:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > There is no evidence other than her word! What evidence are we denying? At least fifteen other women have accused Trump of sexual assault. Trump has said, on record, that he sexually assaults women. When asked about Carroll, Trump claimed he had never met her. Photos show them together. This establishes that Trump is lying about Carroll. Two other witnesses have corroborated that Carroll made this accusation back in 1996. (No doubt as part of a long-planned liberal plot to discredit Trump in case he changed parties, became a Republican, ran for President, and got elected twenty years later.) You can, of course, deny that any of this is evidence about Trump’s credibility. Go ahead and do so. And when you do, make sure you repeat that part about how some people just blindly follow their chosen leaders. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/126 "2019-06-28T05:48:23Z")
It’s interesting that so many people demand conviction-level proof that a woman was raped in order to believe her, when they don’t do this with victims of other crimes. Your colleague, Lenny, tells you someone stole his brand-new flat screen. Do you say, “Lenny, prove to me it was stolen, or I won’t believe you”? Of course not. You might say well, but Lenny is credible. I’ve known him a long time. OK. So Lenny tells you someone a couple blocks away was robbed of a $100, do you scoff and say, “I’ll believe _that_ only when they find the perp and secure a conviction”? No. of course not. All anyone is asking is that you don’t dismiss the claims of a person who was sexually assaulted. Give them the same level of credibility as you do other victims of other crimes. A small percentage of robbery claims are fake, yet people claiming they were robbed don’t often face the same level of scorn and doubt a rape victim does. I was going to say those who make the “prove it or I dismiss it” demand must be terribly lucky that no one in their lives was sexually assaulted, but sadly, anyone who’d been assaulted would be unlikely to tell anyone with such an attitude. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/127 "2019-06-28T09:03:17Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You’ve created a conundrum. By that same logic we should not denigrate, imply, or state that Trump is a rapist unless there is proof that he is. There is no proof or evidence that he is lying when he says he didn’t do it. > > You can’t have it both ways. Frankly, I just think people should feel free to evaluate the evidence and state their opinion. I for one believe all of the following: > > 1. Trump is horrible towards women. His character and actions in this regard are despicable and indefensible. > > 2. This accusation is made up to sell books. She won’t go to the police or release the coat for forensic analysis because she does not want to get Smolletted. > > 3. False accusations occur, the rich famous and powerful are magnets for such. > > 4. Rich famous and powerful people are often take advantage of their positions of power. > > 5. The standards of proof needed before an accused suffer consequences need to be very high. > > 6. We need to do a better job making good faith accusers feel comfortable so that they will come forward immediately. Our failure to do so, and the stigma we attach to victims is inexcusable. > > 7. Beto speaking Spanish last night and Booker copying him was the most embarrassing political spectacle that I have seen this week. > > 8. Biden will make a horrible gaffe > > 9. Coconut is the best flavor, by far. I don’t have it both ways. Right now, our society coddles and goes incredibly easy on powerful men accused of rape and sexual assault. Trump has faced zero consequences so far from over a dozen credible accusations. And right now, or society shits all over women who accuse powerful men. That should change. No conundrum here. Treat accusations with seriousness; treat accusers with compassion; and I don’t really care how you treat powerful men accused of rape, since in all likelihood they’re going to face no consequences. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/128 "2019-06-28T09:54:45Z")
Anyone surprised by the complete lack of reaction by officials in the Party of Rape (not sure which sounds better – “Party of Rape” or “Party of Sexual Assault”, but right now I lean towards the former)? I’m not. The Republican party has wholly abandoned any pretense of being on the side of women against rapists, because they’re worried it could damage their political leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/129 "2019-06-28T09:56:44Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I (a straight man) was sexually assaulted by a man as a young adult, a bit over twenty years ago as it happens, and the only times I’ve even mentioned it have been in semi-anonymous online forums like this one. I haven’t even talked about it with my long-term girlfriend. I’ve never told the whole story to anyone. I couldn’t, at this point. > > I just tried to forget it. Mostly, I have. I don’t remember his name, or even what year it happened. But I remember lots of other details: where we met, what he said to get me to his house, what his house looked like, and so on. > > So I don’t find it hard to understand why women, and all people, don’t report this stuff when it happens. I’m not sure I want to post this, frankly, but fuck it, I will, because maybe it will change some other man’s thinking about this stuff. > [@snoe](#): > > Thanks, it was really hard to say that Thanks for sharing that, **snoe**. Have you read the stories from [Terry Crews](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/oct/11/actor-terry-crews-sexually-assaulted-by-hollywood-executive) and [Brendan Fraser](https://variety.com/2018/film/news/brendan-fraser-hfpa-ex-president-sexually-assaulted-him-1202707850/)about their experiences? I’m not sure how what they went through compares to your experience, but the shame, anxiety and fear around reporting being molested applies even when the victims are big muscular men. And even after they came forward, in the midst of the #MeToo wave, there were those who openly mocked them for the events that traumatized them. The power of the truth may not stop assholes from being assholes, but it helps others who may feel powerless. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/130 "2019-06-28T11:38:54Z")
She has claimed Trump raped her. She has two people she told at the time who confirm it. Trump’s only counter evidence is claiming he never met the woman, and saying she’s unattractive. The latter is irrelevant, and we have photographic proof the former is false. We also have character evidence of a guy who admitted women would let him get away with rape because he was rich, who admitted to going backstage to try and catch the women undressed at his pageants, and who has had several other independent reports of sexual assault. Simply weighing the evidence we have right now, it seems likely he raped her. That is just looking at things rationally. No incriminations attacking Trump supporters or liberals. No claim that she’s lying when you have no evidence to back that up. Just looking at what we have, right now. Can any of Trump’s defenders set out a post like this? ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/131 "2019-06-28T13:37:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Simply weighing the evidence we have right now, it seems likely he raped her. That is just looking at things rationally. No incriminations attacking Trump supporters or liberals. No claim that she’s lying when you have no evidence to back that up. Just looking at what we have, right now. > > **Can any of Trump’s defenders set out a post like this?** Yes, I did. I asked that E. Jean Carroll provide the date on which she claimed it happened instead of a six month time frame. When she does, given Trump’s wealth and status, it is highly likely Trump can provide his whereabouts that day. If it turns out he was out of town or has another iron clad alibi, will you agree that some rape allegations are false? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/132 "2019-06-28T13:40:13Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Yes, I did. I asked that E. Jean Carroll provide the date on which she claimed it happened instead of a six month time frame. > > When she does, given Trump’s wealth and status, it is highly likely Trump can provide his whereabouts that day. If it turns out he was out of town or has another iron clad alibi, will you agree that some rape allegations are false? What was the exact date you lost your virginity? Month, day, year. Surely you must remember the exact date of something so memorable. If you can’t produce this exact date, then we can only assume that you are currently a virgin. Correct? ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/133 "2019-06-28T13:56:23Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What was the exact date you lost your virginity? Month, day, year. Surely you must remember the exact date of something so memorable. If you can’t produce this exact date, then we can only assume that you are currently a virgin. Correct? There’s no shame in being a virgin. I admire men and women who can demonstrate self control and wait to engage in intimate acts under the bonds of marriage. They can say they share something special. So if I had waited until my honeymoon, yes I could provide that exact date. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/134 "2019-06-28T14:09:57Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > There’s no shame in being a virgin. I admire men and women who can demonstrate self control and wait to engage in intimate acts under the bonds of marriage. They can say they share something special. So if I had waited until my honeymoon, yes I could provide that exact date. I didn’t say it was shameful. That’s your word. I was getting at your insistence that people should remember exact dates this way. That isn’t the way memory works. The fact that you cannot remember the date you first had sex should illustrate to you that your argument doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/135 "2019-06-28T14:17:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m amazed at how people can attack a woman when she accuses a rapist. And then ask, with a straight face, why she hesitated to make the accusation. And I love how people on message boards just make stuff up. I didn’t attack her (nice hyperbole though). I pointed out that her delaying in reporting of this, didn’t help her case. It doesn’t help in a rape case, or in a larceny case. Waiting over twenty years to come public with this, and then doing it when it would benefit you financially also lessens your credibility. This isn’t an attack. This is pointing out some legitimate issues. If you view this as an attack, than I think growing a thicker skin is in order. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/136 "2019-06-28T14:21:05Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > There’s also a picture of them together, confirming that she has met him and contradicting his claim that he had not done so. What’s even scarier is that this could be such normal behavior for Trump that he might really not remember her. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/137 "2019-06-28T14:22:25Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > And I love how people on message boards just make stuff up. > > I didn’t attack her (nice hyperbole though). > > I pointed out that her delaying in reporting of this, didn’t help her case. It doesn’t help in a rape case, or in a larceny case. Waiting over twenty years to come public with this, and then doing it when it would benefit you financially also lessens your credibility. This isn’t an attack. This is pointing out some legitimate issues. > > If you view this as an attack, than I think growing a thicker skin is in order. You said “And why has this woman been assaulted by so many men?” Did you forget you said that, or is that not attacking her? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/138 "2019-06-28T14:27:06Z")
If we believe Carroll’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her. If we believe Trump’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her. When someone brags about constantly committing sexual assault, and someone else accuses them of committing sexual assault, it’s logical to conclude they did it. Don’t like this? Then don’t brag about constantly committing sexual assault. And yes, it would be better if victims would come forward right away. Want to make that happen? Stop blaming victims. All you folks who ask “Why did she wait so long?”? The answer is you. You are the reason why she waited so long. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/139 "2019-06-28T14:59:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If we believe Carroll’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her. > > If we believe Trump’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her. > > When someone brags about constantly committing sexual assault, and someone else accuses them of committing sexual assault, it’s logical to conclude they did it. Don’t like this? Then don’t brag about constantly committing sexual assault. > > And yes, it would be better if victims would come forward right away. Want to make that happen? Stop blaming victims. All you folks who ask “Why did she wait so long?”? The answer is you. You are the reason why she waited so long. Yep. We have a recording of Trump admitting he sexually assaults women. Why is this, the 20th or so accusation, still so hard to believe when the man himself admitted he does it? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/140 "2019-06-28T15:26:01Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > There’s no shame in being a virgin. I admire men and women who can demonstrate self control and wait to engage in intimate acts under the bonds of marriage. They can say they share something special. So if I had waited until my honeymoon, yes I could provide that exact date. I predict that we will never get the exact date from LAZombie. (And I note that he asserts confidently that he could remember the date if it happened on his honeymoon, which is a tacit admission that people remember dates when they are pre-planned and calendared, as opposed to happening on an otherwise random day). But the point has been made. People generally don’t remember the dates of very memorable moments in their lives (me? I lost my virginity on a spring break trip with my girlfriend in a motel room. I received oral sex for the first time about a week earlier. I know my senior year was 1996, and spring break was in the spring, but that’s about the best I can do. And getting a BJ and then getting laid my senior year were absolutely the highlights of that time). Hell, my dog died earlier this year. It is still incredibly traumatic; I carry a lot of guilt, since she died in the middle of the night in the hallway. I can still vividly remember putting my face on her body to listen for a heartbeat, and the coolness of her body still sickens me. I also keep a calendar at work that details my travels (for expense account reasons) - I write down things like anniversaries and birthdays on it - but I didn’t record this event, despite it being something I will carry with me forever; it was too sad to write down. Now, I’m pretty sure it was the end of March - about a month before I visited my mom (which date I remember because I showed up a few days after her birthday) - but I don’t know the date. I don’t want to know the date. But, sure as shit, Ruby did die. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042/141 "2019-06-28T15:27:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If we believe Carroll’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her. > > If we believe Trump’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her. Are you doing a Captain Obvious commercial? I like those😀 > [@](#): > > When someone brags about constantly committing sexual assault, and someone else accuses them of committing sexual assault, it’s logical to conclude they did it. Don’t like this? Then don’t brag about constantly committing sexual assault. That’s not actually logical. Following the same form, if I brag about how I fly to the moon on magical wings every night, and somebody else accuses me of stealing the American flag off the moon, than it is not logical to conclude that I did it. People say all kinds of shit about what they did or didn’t. Nothing anybody says actually changes what happened in the past. So no, you are not being logical. > [@](#): > > And yes, it would be better if victims would come forward right away. Want to make that happen? Stop blaming victims. All you folks who ask “Why did she wait so long?”? The answer is you. You are the reason why she waited so long. How exactly does that work? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-columnist-trump-raped-me-in-a-fitting-room/836042.md?page=8)