# Advice for getting a reduced HOA fine? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131 "2009-06-08T19:09:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/1 "2009-06-08T19:09:06Z")
So it’s been a hectic few weeks at the Hollow residence - semester just ended, Hippy Jr. is going through a phase where all of the life processes, especially eating and sleeping, are big to-dos. And the pile of letters that aren’t bills, etc. are piled up on the counter. I happen to open them last Thursday, and one is a letter informing me that the HOA came by and noticed the yard needed edging, it needs to be done within a few days or they’ll fine. We actually had the yard guys over last week but Jr. had just fallen asleep, so we asked them to come back this week. They came by Saturday and did a bang up job; in fact, our yard looks better than most on the street now! I checked mail Saturday and there was a letter assessing the fine - they reinspected Thursday and decided to lower the boom. It’s $25, which is not massive, but it strikes me as a little unneighborly to fine someone for a first violation. Of course when we moved here we signed up, paid the HOA dues, etc. The policy is stated clearly so I have to appeal based simply on the principle of being a good neighbor. My plan was to write a nice letter, thanking them for keeping the standards high, explaining that it’s been a tough patch for us, but we have a schedule in place and we won’t do it again. (The procedure is to appeal and have a hearing with the board.) A colleague of mine says I should claim to have not received the first letter. His point is that we don’t have a leg to stand on - and he’s right, but that’s not my approach. I’d much rather appeal to the board on a personal level, take responsibility, but ask for clemency. This might not work but I think I’d be happier this way. Any opinions on how to approach this? If you have good suggestions on how I might go about having the fine reduced or forgiven, please share. (And yes, I know, it’s my responsibility, etc. etc.) ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/2 "2009-06-08T19:31:04Z")
I would write a letter of apology, explain the circumstances and what you have done to remedy the situation, and send them a check for the full amount in hopes they realize how petty this is and decide to rip it up. Alternately you can talk to board president personally and see if he can’t make an exception just this once. I wouldn’t make a huge deal out of it since you did sign the agreement and getting on the board’s bad side is probably not a good idea in the long run… ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/3 "2009-06-08T19:49:40Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I would write a letter of apology, explain the circumstances and what you have done to remedy the situation, and send them a check for the full amount in hopes they realize how petty this is and decide to rip it up. > > Alternately you can talk to board president personally and see if he can’t make an exception just this once. I wouldn’t make a huge deal out of it since you did sign the agreement and getting on the board’s bad side is probably not a good idea in the long run… I think that’s good advice, **dolphinboy** , especially the first suggestion. The reason the fine grates is that it doesn’t _do_ anything - now, if the HOA dispatched a lawn service to cut my grass and charged me double for their trouble, I wouldn’t have been so bothered. I wonder what they do with the various $25 fines they collect throughout the year? ---
**Author:** ![horsetech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dec6dc/32.png) [@horsetech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horsetech)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/4 "2009-06-09T05:58:03Z")
Insert standard comment about hookers and blow. Eesh, not sure what to say about HOA’s, having never been subject to one. It does sound like dolphinboy has the right idea, though, from the perspective of picking your battles and not pissing people off over the minor stuff, lest something major come up later. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/5 "2009-06-09T12:56:42Z")
I would follow their appeal process to the letter, admit that the edging got done a few days after they reinspected, offer up your excuse having to do with Hippy Jr. and the pile of unread mail, and request that the fine be forgiven. At that point, for the low, low price of $25, you’ll find out whether or not this HOA is run by decent people, or Power Hungry Cock Munchers. If they are PHCM’s, I wouldn’t utter a word of argument after they refuse the appeal, pay it with a smile, thank them for entertaining your appeal, and get out of there, lest they decide to inspect your house more often and make your life miserable. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/6 "2009-06-09T15:27:54Z")
If you go with option #1 and the Homeowner’s Association opens your letter and proclaims"my god, look! look at what monsters we’ve become, I cannot in good conscience profit from this fine upstanding gentleman,"takes that check you’ve written and rips it up, throwing it here and fro like confetti and patting each other on the back, then I’ll personally come by your house and edge your lawn with my dick. ---
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/7 "2009-06-09T15:33:25Z")
**Hippy Hollow** , is the HOA fully run by folks from the neighborhood or is there a property management company involved? If it is the latter, I would tend to agree with **enderw24’s** viewpoint, although I am not willing to bet any landscaping on it. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/8 "2009-06-09T15:41:04Z")
I say go ahead and pay it. Your time is probably worth more than the time to appeal a $25 fine. And no offense, but your excuse seems pretty weak to me. If your kid had been in the ICU for a month, that’s an excuse. The fact that you were busy earning a living and raising a family, well, that probably applies to all of your neighbors just as much as it does to you. Where does the money go? At least in part to send out the letters for violations, major and minor alike. After factoring in the cost to send you a letter and process the payment, they probably have about enough left to send out another letter to your neighbor with the dying tree/ moldy awnings/ whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/9 "2009-06-09T15:43:18Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > If you go with option #1 and the Homeowner’s Association opens your letter and proclaims"my god, look! look at what monsters we’ve become, I cannot in good conscience profit from this fine upstanding gentleman,"takes that check you’ve written and rips it up, throwing it here and fro like confetti and patting each other on the back, then I’ll personally come by your house and edge your lawn with my dick. If, on the other hand, they open your letter, read it, and then decide there’s something else you need fining for, my lack of surprise will be almost total. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/10 "2009-06-09T16:47:21Z")
Thanks for the advice. **Enderw24** , I’ll let you know the progress of the situation, but please don’t feel you have to follow through on your pledge if it works in my favor. 🙂 **Cheesesteak** , I agree with that thought. **Baracus** , there does appear to be a management group - but the letter stipulates that there is an appeal process and a hearing procedure. I’m certainly not of the belief that particular option is one I’d like to pursue… so it’s this, or pay up. **Harriet the Spry** , I would think most excuses are weak for this sort of thing, barring family deaths, etc. We pay HOA dues yearly as well, so it’s not as if there’s a zero-budget situation going on here. I read the declaration again and it stated that violations are given a five to ten day window in which to correct the issue. Minor point, but I think it would have been much better if the first letter said “fix this by this date, or we’ll fine.” (We rectified the issue within 10 days.) Don’t know if that point should be made… Anyway, for those of you on edge of your seats, here’s the letter I came up with: [Quote=the letter I just wrote] June 7, 2009 Dear [HOA groovers], Thank you for your letter dated June 4, 2009, regarding the violation of rules and regulations of the exterior appearance of the yard at our home. I am in agreement with the assessment that the yard was in need of cutting and edging, and as of June 6, we had our lawn service mow, edge, and prune the shrubbery. We hope the Group will accept our apology – we have since contracted with the lawn service to have the yard maintained on a recurring basis. As first time homeowners and new parents, we had previously relied on managing the yard ourselves, but the month of May was particularly stressful as I was trying to balance an extended teaching schedule, commencement activities, and an unexpected trip due to a family emergency toward the end of the month. There was such chaos during this time that we did not have time to attend to our mail promptly, as we typically do, and opened the letter with the first warning several days after it was mailed – and immediately scheduled an appointment with the lawn service. Thankfully things have returned to a more even keel since, and we are confident we will not have an issue regarding our yard maintenance in the future. Per the declaration, we are including payment in the amount of $25. However, as this is our first violation of any aspect of the Declaration, we are hopeful that perhaps the Homeowner’s Association would be willing to forgive this transgression, this one time – as I’m sure you can appreciate, during this time of economic strain, every cent counts. Thanks again for your attention and commitment to ensuring that our community is a pleasant place to live. Sincerely, Dr. Hollow [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/11 "2009-06-09T17:33:56Z")
Understand, Hippy, that I’m not saying a letter of explanation won’t work. On the contrary, depending on a number of factors, I’d say it has a fairly good chance of getting them to slide on the rules just this once. But if you include a check in there, consider it as good as cashed. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/12 "2009-06-09T17:35:48Z")
**Enderw24** , are you saying I shouldn’t include the check? Or maybe I could get them to deduct it from next year’s fees, ha ha! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/13 "2009-06-09T17:45:31Z")
[Quote=Hippy Hollow] June 7, 2009 Dear [HOA groovers], Thank you for your letter dated June 4, 2009, regarding the violation of rules and regulations of the exterior appearance of the yard at our home. I am in agreement with the assessment that the yard was in need of cutting and edging, and as of June 6, we had our lawn service mow, edge, and prune the shrubbery. We hope the Group will accept our apology – we have since contracted with the lawn service to have the yard maintained on a recurring basis. As first time homeowners and new parents, we had previously relied on managing the yard ourselves, but the month of May was particularly stressful as I was trying to balance an extended teaching schedule, commencement activities, and an unexpected trip due to a family emergency toward the end of the month. There was such chaos during this time that we did not have time to attend to our mail promptly, as we typically do, and opened the letter with the first warning several days after it was mailed – and immediately scheduled an appointment with the lawn service. Thankfully things have returned to a more even keel since, and we are confident we will not have an issue regarding our yard maintenance in the future. Per the declaration, we are including payment in the amount of $25. However, as this is our first violation of any aspect of the Declaration, we are hopeful that perhaps the Homeowner’s Association would be willing to forgive this transgression, this one time – as I’m sure you can appreciate, during this time of economic strain, every cent counts. Thanks again for your attention and commitment to ensuring that our community is a pleasant place to live. Sincerely, Dr. Hollow [/Quote] TLDR. I’d cut out the entire “As first time homeowners…” paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/14 "2009-06-09T17:53:28Z")
I’d ask for two things: 1. The standard that the lawn needs to be maintained at. ‘Needs edging’ isn’t a measurable metric. 2. Proof that your lawn did not meet the documented standard. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/15 "2009-06-09T18:07:25Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > …then I’ll personally come by your house and edge your lawn with my dick. I will personally pay the $25 fine for pictures of this. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/16 "2009-06-09T18:09:48Z")
Totally different take. You joined an association to live in a nice place. Any attempt to wiggle out of this will filter down to the busibody level and $25 isn’t worth it. You wanted to live the genteel life and this is the cost of doing business. Take the high road and don’t look back. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/17 "2009-06-09T18:28:44Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > …here’s the letter I came up with: You’re a real schnorrer, aren’t you? You let your yard go for a bit, thinking, perhaps rightly, that the odds were on your side. Now, the price for this indulgence happens to be $25. You want to get out of this because you have “good reasons,” namely, “I have a life to lead!” Look, I could come up with any number of lame justifications for why I shouldn’t have to pay the parking tickets I accrue, the library late fines that I get assessed (_Within the Context of No Context_ is a dense work! You can’t expect me to get through in two weeks!), and so forth. I do not challenge these penalties, because I am aware that my peccadilloes will be pretermitted, so long as I am willing to make worth their while. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/18 "2009-06-09T18:43:23Z")
I am so glad I’m out of my old HOA. Now I only have to answer to the county, state, and federal government. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/19 "2009-06-09T19:00:10Z")
Yeah, I don’t think the association has done anything very alarming here. They sent you a warning letter, and as you said the policy is clear, so it’s not they they snuck any of this up on you. And $25 is rather small, as association fines go. If this really bothers you then honestly I think you’re in for a long ride with your association. For your sanity I think it would be better if you dealt with them as little as possible, in which case you should probably just pay this fine and save your energy for something bigger. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/20 "2009-06-09T19:08:43Z")
> [@sugar\_and\_spice](#): > > Yeah, I don’t think the association has done anything very alarming here. They sent you a warning letter, and as you said the policy is clear, so it’s not they they snuck any of this up on you. And $25 is rather small, as association fines go. > > If this really bothers you then honestly I think you’re in for a long ride with your association. For your sanity I think it would be better if you dealt with them as little as possible, in which case you should probably just pay this fine and save your energy for something bigger. I don’t think it bothers him, I don’t think he thinks the HOA is wrong, I think he just wants to see if he can get out of this without paying. I meant “schnorrer” in the sort of semi-backhanded compliment sense where I at once think he is being a bit ridiculous but also admire his cleverness and chutzpah. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131.md?page=2)