# Advice for getting a reduced HOA fine? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 8, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131 "2009-06-08T19:09:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/21 "2009-06-09T19:24:01Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I will personally pay the $25 fine for pictures of this. I’m picturing a sort of rotary tool action. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/22 "2009-06-09T20:04:51Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > If you go with option #1 and the Homeowner’s Association opens your letter and proclaims"my god, look! look at what monsters we’ve become, I cannot in good conscience profit from this fine upstanding gentleman,"takes that check you’ve written and rips it up, throwing it here and fro like confetti and patting each other on the back, then I’ll personally come by your house and edge your lawn with my dick. Agreed. In the history of Homeowners Associations, none has ever realized they were “acting petty.” Acting petty is what HOAs are for; its how they roll. Just for example, Clarence Thomas’s in-laws were fined for _flying an American Flag_ in violation of a HOA no flags policy. All flags, including the American Flag was forbidden, even on Memorial day, because “it makes the place look like a frat house.” However the HOA admitted they would stop short of physically removing it. [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121255,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121255,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/23 "2009-06-09T20:20:40Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Look, I could come up with any number of lame justifications for why I shouldn’t have to pay the parking tickets I accrue, the library late fines that I get assessed (_Within the Context of No Context_ is a dense work! You can’t expect me to get through in two weeks!), and so forth. I do not challenge these penalties, because I am aware that my peccadilloes will be pretermitted, so long as I am willing to make worth their while. I’m sensing that **Hippy Hollow** would prefer to exhaust other options before strapping on the knee pads. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/24 "2009-06-09T20:28:33Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > I don’t think it bothers him, I don’t think he thinks the HOA is wrong, I think he just wants to see if he can get out of this without paying. > > I meant “schnorrer” in the sort of semi-backhanded compliment sense where I at once think he is being a bit ridiculous but also admire his cleverness and chutzpah. Right. I’m a stand up guy, I do the right thing, and of course I admit to getting things wrong if I do. But I’ve missed critical deadlines, gotten out of tickets, avoided late fees, etc. many times without going into Full-On-Dick-Mode, simply by asking and explaining the situation. I find if you approach these things the right way, you might get a break every now and then. The letter took me five minutes to write; it’s what I do for a living. NBD. In fact, I got my credit card company to waive a late fee last week after dealing with a inflexible CSR, simply because I asked in a letter. Companies/organizations are run by people, and most of us appreciate when we’re approached nicely, and we try to help each other out every now and then. In a former life I was in charge of billing appeals in the res halls at Emory U. I would always endeavor to work with appellants who took responsibility and were respectful. Those who were demanding, dickish, and entitled were not so successful. Just applying the same principle here. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/25 "2009-06-09T20:31:02Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > You’re a real schnorrer, aren’t you? I know you defined how you meant it, but the Jewish community does view it as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/26 "2009-06-09T20:39:22Z")
> [@sugar\_and\_spice](#): > > Yeah, I don’t think the association has done anything very alarming here. They sent you a warning letter, and as you said the policy is clear, so it’s not they they snuck any of this up on you. And $25 is rather small, as association fines go. > > If this really bothers you then honestly I think you’re in for a long ride with your association. For your sanity I think it would be better if you dealt with them as little as possible, in which case you should probably just pay this fine and save your energy for something bigger. Last time I checked, the HOA is supposed to work for the benefit of its members. We’re not talking about a ridiculous bureaucracy; it’s a subdivision of 60 homes. Personally, seeing that I pay dues involuntarily to the HOA, I feel quite comfortable approaching them about this. (If I was in charge, I’d have a policy of waiving the first violation, just so you would be more justified if someone violated it again - plus it’s neighborly. Not to mention listing exact dates when violations should be corrected… and e-mail notification along with snail mail.) Again, I’ve spent more energy posting here than I have with the letter, so it’s not an issue for me. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/27 "2009-06-09T20:48:44Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I know you defined how you meant it, but the Jewish community does view it as an insult. I observe only this: if this is the standard, than Yiddish may as well be banned from the SDMB. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/28 "2009-06-09T21:40:08Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > I observe only this: if this is the standard, than Yiddish may as well be banned from the SDMB. 😉 Point understood. 😉 I mentioned it because we did have a complaint, and other Yiddish words have been used as backdoor insults (“I can’t call someone a ‘dick’ in GQ, but maybe if I call him a ‘putz’ I can get away with it”). So just be aware that, by its dictionary definition, ‘schnorrer’ would be an insult. Just for the record, that wasn’t an official warning or anything. I didn’t have my mod hat on. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/29 "2009-06-09T21:48:35Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > I say go ahead and pay it. Your time is probably worth more than the time to appeal a $25 fine. And no offense, but your excuse seems pretty weak to me. If your kid had been in the ICU for a month, that’s an excuse. The fact that you were busy earning a living and raising a family, well, that probably applies to all of your neighbors just as much as it does to you. > > Where does the money go? At least in part to send out the letters for violations, major and minor alike. After factoring in the cost to send you a letter and process the payment, they probably have about enough left to send out another letter to your neighbor with the dying tree/ moldy awnings/ whatever. I’m a member of my HOA. 1. We don’t like to waive fines -with the one BIG exception below- and it has nothing to do with meanness or power trips. It’s just that if we do it for one person then everyone else will throw that back at us when we refuse to waive their fine and some may accuse us of discrimination. BUT 1. We waive any minor first offense if the homeowner asks. It’s an unwritten rule and the management company knows to do this for us. I incurred a late fee due to returned mail shortly after I was elected to the HOA, and I just went ahead and paid it because I wanted to avoid an appearance of favoritism…then they told me they ALWAYS waive it the first time. So you really should ask nicely but don’t get mad if they say no. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/30 "2009-06-09T22:08:03Z")
Hey **Sound Mind** , that’s interesting… maybe you should start a thread called “Ask the HOA member.” I just ID’ed myself as a member of the HOA - which I thought I was as a homeowner. So are you actually a board member, or have I been inappropriately labeling myself? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/31 "2009-06-09T22:43:14Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Last time I checked, the HOA is supposed to work for the benefit of its members. We’re not talking about a ridiculous bureaucracy; it’s a subdivision of 60 homes. Personally, seeing that I pay dues involuntarily to the HOA, I feel quite comfortable approaching them about this. (If I was in charge, I’d have a policy of waiving the first violation, just so you would be more justified if someone violated it again - plus it’s neighborly. Not to mention listing exact dates when violations should be corrected… and e-mail notification along with snail mail.) Again, I’ve spent more energy posting here than I have with the letter, so it’s not an issue for me. Wrong, the Board exists to enforce the “restrictive covenant” (contract with restrictive conditions) that runs with your property. That is to say, they work for the benefit of the land (the property as a whole) not for the benefit of the homeowner directly. Some of them (I would argue most) take this responsibility to a patently absurd, yet legally enforceable, level. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/32 "2009-06-09T23:18:37Z")
Depending on your HOA, the board also exists to make new rules and fees, spend association money, and to bicker amongst themselves endlessly. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/33 "2009-06-10T10:48:21Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > …A colleague of mine says I should claim to have not received the first letter. His point is that we don’t have a leg to stand on - and he’s right, but that’s not my approach. I’d much rather appeal to the board on a personal level, take responsibility, but ask for clemency. This might not work but I think I’d be happier this way… > [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > I’m a stand up guy, I do the right thing, and of course I admit to getting things wrong if I do. Good for you. I’m of the opinion that it never hurts to ask for what you want. And on a completely unrelated note: If I were you, I’d take a good, hard look at the colleague who encouraged you to lie as a way to solve problems. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/34 "2009-06-10T22:18:51Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > Good for you. I’m of the opinion that it never hurts to ask for what you want. > > And on a completely unrelated note: If I were you, I’d take a good, hard look at the colleague who encouraged you to lie as a way to solve problems. :eek: Yeah, I think sometimes Dopers can get in a very rigid mindset and as you note, I’m just asking, and I’m fully aware they might not do what I want, and I’m okay with it. I don’t think it’s a problem to ask for consideration. Try it sometime, you’ll be surprised with the results! My colleague is of the mindset that there’s no way to get a break unless you can assign blame to someone. He thinks my approach will fail, and maybe he’s right, but I feel that it’s the right way to approach it. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/35 "2009-06-29T18:45:32Z")
Not to reanimate the dead, but an update on this issue: I got this letter in the mail Saturday: > [@](#): > > Dear Mr. Hollow, > > Thank you for your letter and your prompt payment of your fine. I understand your situation and that this is your first violation with the [HOA], so I am returning your check and will waive the $25 fine. (snip) Thanks all, for the advice. I think this bears out the saying, “it never hurts to ask!” ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/36 "2009-06-29T19:16:34Z")
My god. They _sent the check back_. I am truly shocked and amazed. I believe I have some edging that somebody’s dick needs to attend to. ETA - I always thought you were a woman. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/37 "2009-06-29T19:17:29Z")
They seem very reasonable for a HOA. Congrats! ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/38 "2009-06-29T19:28:18Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > My god. They _sent the check back_. I am truly shocked and amazed. > > I believe I have some edging that somebody’s dick needs to attend to. > > ETA - I always thought you were a woman. Sorry. Ewww! No worries. That’s sort of a good thing that you didn’t know my gender… means I’m not always posting about itchy balls, chicks’ hooters, or farting in sleeping mates’ faces. 🙂 **control-z** , I agree. I’m going to drop the writer of the letter a line to say thanks! ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/39 "2009-06-29T19:29:57Z")
I would have been very surprised if they didn’t waive the fine considering the circumstances. Fines are to obtain compliance, not generate revenue. Did the letter come from the manager or from a board member? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131/40 "2009-06-29T20:11:22Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > Hey **Sound Mind** , that’s interesting… maybe you should start a thread called “Ask the HOA member.” > > I just ID’ed myself as a member of the HOA - which I thought I was as a homeowner. So are you actually a board member, or have I been inappropriately labeling myself? Late replying, back from the first part of a 2 part vacation. I’m a board member. It’s actually a co-op apartment building so we actually have MORE power than your standard HOA…you can’t sell your apartment unless we approve the prospective buyer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-getting-a-reduced-hoa-fine/499131.md?page=3)