# Advice for parents considering murdering their kids and then killing themselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662 "2007-04-04T02:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/41 "2007-04-05T21:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Whoooooosh! šŸ˜ƒ [/QUOTE] Uh, oh - did you whoosh me? What did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/42 "2007-04-05T21:04:12Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] You seem to have some trouble with being an asshole. [/quote] If you donā€™t like insults when you post stupidly, then stay out of the pit. Twit. > [@](#): > > When did I assert otherwise? Post #30. > [@](#): > > No. Are you a complete asshole? No. But Iā€™m not very tolerant of fools. > [@](#): > > Yes, that was my point, thank you. Are you really so dense that you donā€™t understand a rhetorical construction? Jesus Christ, you must be one stupid motherfucker. Seriously. The problem isnā€™t the rhetorical question, itā€™s the idiocy of your point itself. > [@](#): > > Honestly, though - how often does that happen _in real life_ as opposed to the movies? When we hear about a murder, 99.999999% of the time it is not justified. I donā€™t understand the attitude of being aghast when a murder isnā€™t justified. Uh, pretty much none of them are justified. So you really donā€™t understand any distinction between the examples I gave and murdering your own children? What planet are you posting from? > [@](#): > > Thatā€™s manslaughter. Not legally. > [@](#): > > I disagree. Being a ganster is not logical. The risk of being caught or killed outweighs any material gain from the illegal enterprise. Not necessarily so for a lot of gangsters. Many can go on for years committing murders without being caught. And if you are a gangster already, murder may make perfect logical sense in some circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/43 "2007-04-05T21:15:01Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] If you donā€™t like insults when you post stupidly, then stay out of the pit. Twit. [/quote] Physician - heal thyself. > [@](#): > > Post #30. Wrong. Nowhere in that post do I claim you talked about ā€œjust suicide aloneā€. [your childish tit-for-tat response snippedā€¦] > [@](#): > > The problem isnā€™t the rhetorical question, itā€™s the idiocy of your point itself. The fact remains that you gave a literal response to a rhetorical point, which indicates to me that you are denser than neutronium. > [@](#): > > So you really donā€™t understand any distinction between the examples I gave and murdering your own children? What planet are you posting from? A strawman. I did not say there was no distinction. I said that such examples are exceedingly rare. Itā€™s highly ironic that _you_ would call _my_ reading comprehension skills into question. ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/44 "2007-04-06T00:02:30Z")
To get back on topic: Are there no trailer trash on the Straight Dope? The answer is obvious. Some of these men who kill their children figure the kids ainā€™t related to them, if you get my meaning. Then it makes perfect sense to kill the kids. You get revenge on that cheating bitch and also get back at the guy who was running around with her behind your back. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/45 "2007-04-06T16:42:17Z")
Thereā€™s no way to put this without somebody taking it wrong, but Iā€™m gonnaā€™ try anyway: In some cases, people are just trying to get someone to listen to them. When all else fails, they make a statement so incredibly horrible it cannot be ignored. This is often the case where one divorced parent uses a child to inflict pain on the other. Iā€™m not implying that anyone ever deserves that, but sometimes it is the result of years of ignoring the real nature of the ā€œevilā€ one. Itā€™s sort of like waking up one day and realizing you live with a rattlesnake ā€“ at some point you have to recognize that you cannot ignore the rattle, that you have to do something positive and pro-active to remove the snake from your childrenā€™s presence. Maybe you even have to humor the snake briefly to get between it and the kids. But you donā€™t just whack at it with a stick. Does this make any sense at all? ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/46 "2007-04-06T19:45:18Z")
Sorry to derail the name-calling, but here is a point (I think) no one has made yet. To the murder-suicideā€™s twisted emotional state, killing the children may be less painful than _abandoning_ them. Suicide is wrong, in part, because you leave behind the children, your legacy and responsibility. Remove that, and youā€™re free to go, so to speak. I donā€™t condone this attitude, of course. But I could understand it. I see **cookeze** and **Sunrazor** got to the train before I did. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/47 "2007-04-07T16:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Jahdra] I wanted to know that the motherfucker was **dead**. Even seeing him lying there in the casket, I didnā€™t believe it until I went up and touched him, and he was cold. My mother and brother both breathed a sigh of relief. [/QUOTE] This is shocking to me. I am sorry for what you and your family must have had to endure. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/48 "2007-04-07T17:15:02Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Iā€™m not anti-abortion, but where did you get the idea that dogs arenā€™t self-aware? [/QUOTE] By that thatā€™s the phrase for what the difference is in mental capability between (adult) humans and all other known animals? Itā€™s just part of the definition of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/49 "2007-04-07T17:35:07Z")
[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense] You seem to be implying that if the fetus is not self aware that termination is acceptable (taken from context of thread and previous posts). This argument (if you believe it) should then extend to newborns or at least pre-mature babies since they arenā€™t magically ā€œself-awareā€ the minute theyā€™re born. Thatā€™s the point I was making. Simple. Iā€™m not implying that you would be wrong if you held a pro-abortion stance, simply that this paticular argument doesnā€™t hold water. Unless you believe we should be able to terminate the life of an already born child. [/QUOTE] If you wanted to base the right to kill on plain-up mental capabilities, then yes it would be permissable to kill a born baby that had not yet advanced past other animals that society is fine to terminate (dogs, cows, chickens, etc.) Having it not be so is, technically speaking, hypocritical and illogical. But just to spite hypocrisy and poor logic, though, isnā€™t a good reason to do something. Allowing the killing of babies accomplishes nothing. If you donā€™t want a baby, get an abortion. But, my point remains that killing young children is murder of a self-aware being. So regardless of anythingā€“by all accepted morality, logical and nonā€“no single human has the right to decide to kill children. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/50 "2007-04-07T17:38:37Z")
For those interested in the topic, hereā€™s what the Wikipedia says: [ > [@Self-awareness](#): > > The ability to self-analyze (or scrutinize) is widely believed among psychologists not to develop until mid-childhood, and arguably is present in only a few species of animals. Tests that are usually considered as representative of self-consciousness include applying a bright dot to a subjects forehead, and then placing them in front of a mirror ā€“ if they reach for their own forehead, it appears they may realize their own existence in a self-aware sense. Great apes, dolphins and elephants can pass this test. However, others criticize this test as testing only the understanding of the duplicability of image, and not especially meaningful as a way of gauging self-consciousness. ]([Self-awareness - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-aware)) ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/51 "2007-04-07T17:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Cite? [/QUOTE] PLEASE! Letā€™s stay on topic, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662/52 "2007-04-07T18:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=Largo62] PLEASE! Letā€™s stay on topic, shall we? [/QUOTE] I knew I should have read the rest of the thread before replying. Looks like the anti-hijack sentiment was waaay too late. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-parents-considering-murdering-their-kids-and-then-killing-themselves/398662.md?page=2)