# Advice for those new to monogramming and to nouveau snobs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844 "2006-08-15T16:56:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/1 "2006-08-15T16:56:21Z")
Look, you chimps at embroidery shops, you monkeys running engraving machines, and you blue-assed baboons who order monogrammed junk but are too stupid to notice when it is done wrong, the SURNAME INITIAL goes in the MIDDLE, not the MIDDLE NAME INITIAL! Nobody cares what your middle name is. Hell, usually nobody KNOWS what your middle name is. What matters first is your family name, because that determines your quality, and second is your given name, so people know WHICH Howell (Thurston or Lovie) you are. The initial of (one of your) your middle name(s)–or of your husband’s given name–goes on the right to balance the composition. Do not get it done first initial, MIDDLE INITIAL, last initial unless you want the people you think you are impressing assume you are an idiot. I hoped we were done with the pretentious foolishness of monograms when the Preppy Look died but the other day I saw a person wearing a shirt advertising the singer, Sean Paul, and on the back was the singer’s monogram: **SPH**. From that one would assume that Paul is his family name, but no, it is Henriques! According to his [biography](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Paul) he comes from a good family, yet either he was not taught correctly or else he did not proofread the clothing released in his name. Either option is simply appalling, though I suppose it is not surprising considering his choice of (sniff) career, and it will lead his young admirers to believe that is the correct way to monogram. Children, before you follow Mr Henriques’ lead and embarass yourself, learn the two rules of monograms: First, your surname gets pride of place as the large, central initial. Second, do not get anything monogrammed; that’s for poseurs. Remember that if you are sufficiently high on the food chain anybody who _should_ know who you are _does_ and anybody who _doesn’t_ know who you are _doesn’t matter._ A simple equation that separates you from the hoi-polloi. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/2 "2006-08-15T17:00:46Z")
What’s the point of being a nouveau snob if you don’t get to redefine fashion? ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/3 "2006-08-15T17:04:48Z")
I guess I’m torn between telling you to fuck off, I’ll do my monogramming how I want. And… I guess I’m glad I’m one of the losers in the world to whom this sort of thing never even showed up on the radar. Nobody cares who I am, and I haven’t ever really cared to tell them! 😃 **dropzone** my friend, may this be the worst thing you have to complain about all year. And on preview, YEAH! What **Ethilrist** said! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/4 "2006-08-15T17:06:55Z")
[QUOTE=Faruiza] **dropzone** my friend, may this be the worst thing you have to complain about all year. [/QUOTE] Thta’s just because I took the first seven months off. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/5 "2006-08-15T17:20:44Z")
[QUOTE=Faruiza] I guess I’m torn between telling you to fuck off, I’ll do my monogramming how I want. [/QUOTE] Meh. The Pit is not just for bitching about SUV-driving abstractly artistic overweight warmongering politicians who may or may not declaw their cats. It’s a great forum for dissing life’s general idiots as well. I give the rant a 6.2. Sincerely, t **D** n ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/6 "2006-08-15T17:22:46Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Thta’s just because I took the first seven months off. [/QUOTE] Well, shit! You’ve got some really _serious_ catching up to do then. I’ll help: You scum sucking slack jawed mongrels! You are doing IT all wrong! WRONG, I tell you. Either monogram your underwear right, or I’m coming to your mother’s funeral with a torch and an attitude. I’m going to cauterize your breeding parts so that we can end the tyrrany of your genetically inferior lineage. The sooner the better. We don’t want any accidents. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/7 "2006-08-15T17:30:18Z")
[QUOTE=Faruiza] I guess I’m torn between telling you to fuck off, I’ll do my monogramming how I want. [/QUOTE] Meh. The Pit is not just for bitching about SUV-driving abstractly artistic overweight warmongering politicians who may or may not declaw their cats. It’s a great forum for dissing life’s general idiots as well. I give the rant a 6.2. Sincerely, t **D** n ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/8 "2006-08-15T17:35:41Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Look, you chimps at embroidery shops, you monkeys running engraving machines, and you blue-assed baboons who order monogrammed junk but are too stupid to notice when it is done wrong, the SURNAME INITIAL goes in the MIDDLE, not the MIDDLE NAME INITIAL! Nobody cares what your middle name is. Hell, usually nobody KNOWS what your middle name is. What matters first is your family name, because that determines your quality, and second is your given name, so people know WHICH Howell (Thurston or Lovie) you are. The initial of (one of your) your middle name(s)–or of your husband’s given name–goes on the right to balance the composition. Do not get it done first initial, MIDDLE INITIAL, last initial unless you want the people you think you are impressing assume you are an idiot. . [/QUOTE] I guess I’m an idiot. When I had my son’s backpack monogrammed, it just looked wrong to have the last initial go in the middle. His initials are TJS. I don’t want his monogram to be T **S** J. It just looks wrong. Sorry if I offended you. Also, his backback is LL Bean, so the “error” will last forever. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/9 "2006-08-15T17:41:42Z")
I believe that if all 3 initials are the same size, then it is typical to list the 3 initials in the actual order. It is only when the middle one is larger that you put the last initial in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/10 "2006-08-15T17:41:47Z")
I agree with you only if the middle letter is mongrammed bigger than the others. See, [here](http://www.landsend.com/cd/fp/help/0,,1_36877_36880_36975___,00.html?sid=2589146765336164020) they are in order if the letters are all the same size. My initials are gdg, a nice palindrome, so I don’t like the idea of the un-symmetry of gGd. [However, the script mongramming they do there ended up looking really nice so my One True Winter Coat does read GGD.] ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/11 "2006-08-15T17:43:38Z")
Right, **gigi** …I should have wrapped up by saying to **Ivylass** that if you don’t like to have to put the last initial in the middle, then always choose a monogram where the letters are all the same size. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/12 "2006-08-15T17:51:09Z")
Oh please. :rolleyes: Anybody with 3 initials is a nobody, and shouldn’t aspire to monogramming. Here’s a real Peer of the Realm: SIR ANDREW DAVID FRANCIS CUNYNGHAME OF MILNCRAIG, 12TH BT [http://www.burkes-peerage.net/code/newFullTxtSrch.asp?ct=allbooks&SrchStr=&pagetype=resultpage&sd=rank&c2=@META\_SortName&q1=featherstone&B1=SEARCH](http://www.burkes-peerage.net/code/newFullTxtSrch.asp?ct=allbooks&SrchStr=&pagetype=resultpage&sd=rank&c2=@META_SortName&q1=featherstone&B1=SEARCH) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/13 "2006-08-15T18:01:27Z")
**glee** , I ALWAYS leave wiggle room: > [@From the OP](#): > > The initial of **(one of your)** your middle name\*\*(s)\*\* Of course, I must defer to those with but two names, as long as the second is Rex or Regina. **gigi** , three letters the same size are not a monogram; they are just initials and not subject to the same laws, (bored yawn) though if you don’t know that I don’t know why I bother pointing it out. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/14 "2006-08-15T18:06:15Z")
Here sport, let me fix that for you: dropzone SDBSA ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/15 "2006-08-15T18:07:33Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] A simple equation that separates you from the hoi-polloi. [/QUOTE] \ That’d be, ‘A simple equation that seperates you from hoi polloi’ \ ‘hoi’ is Attic Greek (masculine plural TBP) for ‘the’. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/16 "2006-08-15T18:12:17Z")
Is the OP published as the official position of the SDSAB on the subject of monograming? I’m proud to report that the few monogramed articles I own are correctly done. On the other hand, they were all gifts so I can’t claim credit. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/17 "2006-08-15T18:22:21Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] **gigi** , three letters the same size are not a monogram; they are just initials and not subject to the same laws, (bored yawn) though if you don’t know that I don’t know why I bother pointing it out. 😉 [/QUOTE] PBBBTTTT! Your pal, GDTG ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/18 "2006-08-15T18:54:10Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] \ That’d be, ‘A simple equation that seperates you from hoi polloi’ \ ‘hoi’ is Attic Greek (masculine plural TBP) for ‘the’. [/QUOTE] This is my pet peeve of the last couple of years. I think I love you for getting to it first. This and ‘octopi’… ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/19 "2006-08-15T19:01:47Z")
Isn’t a monogram by definition a singular graphical device made up of one or more characters to symbolise a name? So ABC wouldn’t be a monogram anyway. Monograms generally look somewhat similar to the @ symbol. See [http://www.kb.dk/kb/missingbooks/marks/monograms.htm](http://www.kb.dk/kb/missingbooks/marks/monograms.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844/20 "2006-08-15T19:08:08Z")
Ah, but what if you only have a first and a last name, with no middle initial? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-for-those-new-to-monogramming-and-to-nouveau-snobs/368844.md?page=2)