# Advice on dealing with teenager's professed lack of religious belief **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029 "2010-10-04T18:50:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/21 "2010-10-04T19:50:02Z")
Thanks for the responses so far. Please note that if I were interested in jamming formal religion down my son’s throat, I would have started when he was much younger. I do believe in science and completely discount the misguided ravings of biblical literalists and creationists. I’m just wondering if I perhaps did too good of a job implicitly equating _all_ religion with fundamentalist nutjobs. After all, even the Catholic church today acknowledges the reality of evolution, for example. It would be easier, I think, if I were personally more certain about my own beliefs or lack thereof. Out of curiosity, besides those who have already mentioned it, who in this thread has actually raised a child and dealt with similar issues, not just in a theoretical sense? ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/22 "2010-10-04T19:52:41Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > …That being said, if my son came to me with this announcement my first response would be, “You don’t have to choose between God and Science. You can believe in both. I do.” > > Then I would I would tell him that I love him no matter what he believes and to remember than he doesn’t have to make up his mind right now and that it’s likely he will change his mind back and forth a few times as he grows and changes. I would remind him that he needs to respectful of everyone’s beliefs. Actually, except for the part about not having to make his mind up now, that is exactly what I did say to him. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/23 "2010-10-04T19:53:35Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > It sounds like you don’t really have a problem. Your wife has a problem and she’s complaining and dithering rather than doing something about it. You are under no compunction to make this go away for her. Your choices are: 1) you can nod and make sympathetic noises when she complains, or 2) you can put the problem firmly in her court every time she complains, or 3) you can tell her you’re tired of hearing her complain and don’t want to hear any more unless she’s got a plan of action. There may be a fourth choice of discussing the problem in great detail, but only if you enjoy that kind of thing. > > If she ever gets a plan of action, you’re free to disagree with it. Until then, if you don’t have a problem with your son’s decision, then you don’t have a problem. \*\* applauding loudly \*\* Your wife’s complaining that your son’s not religious but your son’s never even been _baptized?!?_ Good fucking grief. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/24 "2010-10-04T19:57:24Z")
Well, I agree with those who say the boat has sailed – although you can remind yourself that it’s not out of God’s hands. Although it’s unfortunate, belief aside, if he grows up to be religously ignorant. One thing I would ask him is why he thinks science is in conflict with religion. It’s not, at all, and Catholics especially would confirm this. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/25 "2010-10-04T19:59:32Z")
My daughter was raised Catholic, and went through First Communion and confirmation. She’s in her early twenties now, and is no longer going to church except for the Easter Vigil (she loves the pageantry). My assumption is that she may come back when she has children of her own. That’s a fairly standard progression - her mother did exactly the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/26 "2010-10-04T20:05:49Z")
Don’t try dragging him to church. That generally doesn’t work on someone who doesn’t want to believe. Or even on somebody who does want to believe, but just doesn’t. That was my mom’s approach. Of two kids she raised Protestant, one is now Jewish, and the other is “spiritual but not religious” and married to a Catholic. Her dragging us to church caused more tension between us and her, which is generally not what a parent-teenage child relationship needs. It also made us feel we couldn’t talk to her about religion, because she would get very upset at any hint that we were not following exactly in her footsteps. It’s not good when a teenage kid feels there is something important that they can’t talk to their parents about. Your wife may need to keep the lid on her emotions about this, for your son’s sake, at least when he’s around. Mr. Neville’s parents had what I think is a better approach. When each of their three sons turned 13 (bar mitzvah age, in Judaism), their parents said it was up to them how much Judaism they wanted in their lives. I personally think 13 is a good age for parents to back off on a child’s religious beliefs and observances. > [@Skammer](#): > > One thing I would ask him is why he thinks science is in conflict with religion. It’s not, at all, and Catholics especially would confirm this. Catholicism today isn’t anti-science. They don’t insist on a literal reading of the portion of Genesis that deals with creation. They don’t say Catholics shouldn’t study evolution. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/27 "2010-10-04T20:10:54Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > It clearly sounds like you two parents are ill-suited to do anything about his beliefs: you are wishy-washy on your own beliefs and the wife is both too lazy and too disgruntled about her religion. You’re probably right about me, but I would say that my wife is more disgruntled than “lazy.” She simultaneously believes that the Roman Catholic church is the “only true church” yet is repelled by its policies on divorce and its teachings on birth control and the like, not to mention the recent scandals in the Church with respect to the sexual abuse of children by priests and systematic child abuse. > [@B.Serum](#): > > Add to the fact that the train has left the station — your kid has actively entered the rebellious phase and any pushing in one direction is likely to result in him moving in the opposite. Good point. > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Your wife’s complaining that your son’s not religious but your son’s never even been _baptized?!?_ Good fucking grief. It’s hard to get your son baptized if you refuse to talk to a priest. (As I understand it, I’m screwed, too. You can’t be a Catholic in good standing if you marry a divorcee who never obtained an annulment.) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/28 "2010-10-04T20:14:00Z")
You might enjoy a UU church - you should have lots of options in Connecticut. We chose to raise the children of an atheist and a Deist UU because we believe it provides a structure to learn about religion - and science - to make your own choices, and to learn to respect the choices of others. And because I really like the sexuality program teenagers go through. Go without your wife and see what you think. When my “Catholic for life” parents came to my UU church they were actually pretty impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/29 "2010-10-04T20:15:01Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I think your massivly over-estimating the religious component of the modern Boy Scouts, especially in New England (I’m assuming your still in Conneticut). My entire family of more-or-less athiests went through Scouts in Vermont during the 90’s, and it never caused any issues. There are occasional, very general, mentions of religious piety, but as long as your son doesn’t mind those I can’t imagine what other problems he’d have in the scouts. They don’t grill you _Technically_ an atheist cannot become an Eagle Scout. When I was up for Eagle one of the things I was asked was “Do you believe in God?” Before hand, someone mentioned to me that when asked that question, I need to answer “yes.” Anything other then “yes” and the meeting stops there and you can’t become an Eagle. I answered “yes,” I felt a bit guilty about it, but I wasn’t going to throw away all that work over something this guy didn’t really need to know. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/30 "2010-10-04T20:19:00Z")
> [@robby](#): > > After all, even the Catholic church today acknowledges the reality of evolution, for example. > > It would be easier, I think, if I were personally more certain about my own beliefs or lack thereof. > > Out of curiosity, besides those who have already mentioned it, who in this thread has actually raised a child and dealt with similar issues, not just in a theoretical sense? Both my girls, now adults, are atheists, and they are both fine, moral people, and I am proud of them. I am also, my wife is a deist at best, and while my mother-in-law was a believer my father-in-law is an atheist also. They suffered no ill effects. As a former Boy Scout, and as a son of a Scoutmaster, I’d say let him be in the scouts if is good for him. I think the people who run the Scouts these days are a bunch of fascist assholes - when I was in HQ was in New Brunswick, NJ, and they were much more reasonable. I agree with the advice already given to lie if necessary - I’d hope in CN no one would care, but the national council has been known to cause problems for troops who won’t follow the rules. In any case, the lesson that it is okay to lie to oppressors is not a bad one. When I was a scout I wasn’t yet an atheist, so it didn’t come up, but my father was Scoutmaster of the UN troop around 1950, and they did not have “A scout is reverent” as one of the laws - so scouting and godliness do not have to go together. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/31 "2010-10-04T20:22:20Z")
Religious belief (or lack thereof) is a pretty personal and idiosyncratic thing, and you can’t force anyone to be a believer (or non-believer). My approach (although our kids are being raised Catholic) is to let the kids know they’re allowd to believe whatever they want, stop believing whenever they want, and change their minds as often as they feel like. They have to be allowed to own their own brains. I think that **Yllaria** is right. It’s your wife that has the problem, but that’s not something I have an answer for how to deal with. I do know that trying to force the kid to be religious will only make him become more hostile to it. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/32 "2010-10-04T20:22:32Z")
> [@robby](#): > > …I would say that my wife is more disgruntled than “lazy.” She simultaneously believes that the Roman Catholic church is the “only true church” yet is repelled by its policies on divorce and its teachings… That’s an amazingly common perspective among those who were raised Catholic, by the way. My husband’s the same way - he still considers himself Catholic, but disagrees with almost all the major positions of the Church. Nonetheless, he refuses to consider aligning himself with a different faith that more closely conforms with what he actually believes. It’s pretty weird to me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/33 "2010-10-04T20:27:35Z")
My wife’s like that too. When she first said she wanted to baptize our kids and raise them Catholic, I wanted to compromise on UU, but she wouldn’t hear of anything but Catholic, even though she disagrees with a lot of it. Something about a Catholic upbringing just sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/34 "2010-10-04T20:28:51Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > That’s an amazingly common perspective among those who were raised Catholic, by the way. My husband’s the same way - he still considers himself Catholic, but disagrees with almost all the major positions of the Church. Nonetheless, he refuses to consider aligning himself with a different faith that more closely conforms with what he actually believes. It’s pretty weird to me. Garry Wills’ _Why I am a Catholic_ is an interesting exposition of that viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/35 "2010-10-04T20:30:08Z")
**robby** , as has been noted you’re not among a sympathetic crowd for this topic. In fact, this thread has already enjoyed a small taste of the narrow-minded hate for all things Holy. Pity. Religion in general does have its logical & historical problems but I don’t think invective is always called for. I don’t think your son is in danger of becoming an evil person simply for his lack of belief. Biggoted snark notwithstanding, there ARE good people whose natural inclination is more Christlike than many who consider themselves Christian. From what you’ve said, I gather your wife’s not all that serious about religion either, otherwise she’d have gotten around to seeing a priest immediately. If your son’s apathetic about it, it’s not hard to understand. For what it’s worth, I’d say most churches have institutionalized an agenda that is either outside or beyond the scope of what their particular prophet was all about. Tell me what Jesus EVER said about homosexuality, for instance, and then look at how most (if not all) Christian sects treat homos. I think you need to clarify in your own hearts what you believe before you can expect your children to get on board. Since you believed at one point, there is a good chance your God is still with you. What are you concerned about? Him growing up to be a good person? Him growing up with a belief in God (in which case, why do you want that)? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/36 "2010-10-04T20:32:05Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The first part is to trust God, that He will lead your child to Him. Pray that God leads him home. Also accept that in order for your son to know God he is going to have to travel a path, he must learn in his own way, which may go through atheism for a time, only God knows what path your son needs. Accept that this is God leading your son to Him once you have prayed for God to do that. Second part is not to feel guilty, you may have done him a favor by not going into religious traditions, they actually distract in knowing God personally. And ony God can lead your son to Him, you or your wife can’t, it’s not your job, but His. So it’s not your responsibility either, just your responsibility to let God do it. 3rd is to encourage him to explore, don’t push, but if he expresses interest encourage him to try. Encourage him to think for himself and draw his own conclusions. And if this helps I did venture through trust in science, I’ve concluded it is ultimately a dead end with out hope for humanity, and is actually a religion of sorts, it is a ‘god’ that many place their trust in, but this god will fail them personally, and many will seek elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/37 "2010-10-04T20:32:34Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > > [@Simplicio](#): > > > > I think your massivly over-estimating the religious component of the modern Boy Scouts, especially in New England (I’m assuming your still in Conneticut). My entire family of more-or-less athiests went through Scouts in Vermont during the 90’s, and it never caused any issues. There are occasional, very general, mentions of religious piety, but as long as your son doesn’t mind those I can’t imagine what other problems he’d have in the scouts. They don’t grill you > > _Technically_ an atheist cannot become an Eagle Scout. When I was up for Eagle one of the things I was asked was “Do you believe in God?” Before hand, someone mentioned to me that when asked that question, I need to answer “yes.” Anything other then “yes” and the meeting stops there and you can’t become an Eagle. I answered “yes,” I felt a bit guilty about it, but I wasn’t going to throw away all that work over something this guy didn’t really need to know. if you want to nitpick, you can believe in god as an atheist … you believe that the category of being known as god doesn’t exist. negative belief in something is a form of belief. [weaselwording used by an atheist eagle buddy of mine at that juncture in time] ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/38 "2010-10-04T20:35:25Z")
> [@Hades](#): > > My mother did the same thing you and your wife did. She raised me to believe in some nebulous god, never enforced any kind of religious upbringing or ceremony, and only got upset when I took god’s name in vain, yet took my declared atheism as a personal affront… Same deal with my mom (though I was baptised). She had a worse reaction to me saying I didn’t belive in God than she did when she found out I was gay. > [@Simplicio](#): > > I think your massivly over-estimating the religious component of the modern Boy Scouts, especially in New England (I’m assuming your still in Conneticut). My entire family of more-or-less athiests went through Scouts in Vermont during the 90’s, and it never caused any issues. There are occasional, very general, mentions of religious piety, but as long as your son doesn’t mind those I can’t imagine what other problems he’d have in the scouts… I didn’t run into any problems with the Scouts until I stopped paying lip service to religion. I wouldn’t say the Pledge of Allegiance without omiting\* “under God”, refused to say the Scout Oath “properly”, etc. Which kinda sucked since the only other youth activity options around were school sports (or band) and actual church groups. As a teen it really bothered me that the Scouts were allowed to do stuff in school. \*I caused a minor stir doing that over the PA system that one time in high school when I was asked to do the morning announcments. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/39 "2010-10-04T20:35:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Religious belief (or lack thereof) is a pretty personal and idiosyncratic thing, and you can’t force anyone to be a believer (or non-believer). You can’t even force _yourself_ to believe whatever you want, or at least some of us can’t. I tried to force myself to be a Christian, and really believe. I failed. Then I tried being an atheist, and failed at that, too. And don’t think “it can’t hurt” to force him to go to church. It can hurt your relationship with him if you’re forcing him to do something he really doesn’t want to do. It can make him feel like you’re trying to control everything about his life. That’s not a positive feeling for a teenager to have toward a parent. It can have real-world consequences- someone who feels their parents are too controlling might have trouble talking to their parents about a serious matter that can have lifelong repercussions, like wanting to get birth control. If he was able to tell you he’s an atheist, it means you were doing something right. He felt he was able to talk to you about this. Not all kids his age feel that way toward their parents. I certainly didn’t, at his age. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/40 "2010-10-04T20:39:51Z")
What has your son said about your wife’s desire to have him learn more about Christianity? Were I in the same shoes as your son, I’d be confused about both of your reactions. I can see wanting him to know _about_ various religions, but had you wanted him to believe in God, you probably should’ve thought about how that would be accomplished earlier. And your wife can’t expect him to suddenly become Catholic when her plans for his religious education have thus far been, “Yeah - I was going to do something about that some day.” I think it’s good that your son has come to his own, very understandable, conclusions. If he decides to get involved religiously later on, kudos to him. If he doesn’t, great. I wouldn’t push him about it, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029.md?page=3)