# Advice on dealing with teenager's professed lack of religious belief **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029 "2010-10-04T18:50:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/61 "2010-10-05T16:55:52Z")
> [@robby](#): > > …Out of curiosity, besides those who have already mentioned it, who in this thread has actually raised a child and dealt with similar issues, not just in a theoretical sense? I’ve raised 3 and I tried not to overly influence their thinking one way or another about religion. I know what I believe, but I also know that there isn’t a single person in this world that knows “the truth” including me, so my focus was more about raising kids to have an open mind and not be too dogmatic about these issues. We talked about various people/cultures/religions/friends beliefs, but I tried not make the discussion about what I believe. About the only areas where I tried to influence (other than normal parenting - self love, golden rule, honesty, hard work, competition, cooperation, etc.) were: 1. evolution (uhhh, yep, it happened and continues to happen) 2. gays (no they are not bad/evil/going to hell/immoral etc.) These two required active work on my part due to the vocal minority pushing the opposite message. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/62 "2010-10-05T17:14:09Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > I consider myself a pretty rational person. I’m aware of the historical origins of religion. Rationally speaking, I think that all religion is in all probability a human construct with no basis in reality. Of course, this means that this world is all that there is. This distresses me a bit, so I (perhaps irrationally) hope that there is some higher power and that there is some point to life. > > You said that in the OP, too. You don’t think there’s a point to life if there’s no reward at the end? Or is it that you feel that serving a deity makes life meaningful? I neither hope for a reward after death nor wish to serve a deity. I just hold onto the forlorn hope that there is some point to our existence that persists beyond this earthly life. > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > There may not be some grand scheme to our existence, but there are enough reasons to continue living that I fail to see how the lack of a “point” matters. I get to spend my life with someone who makes me happy. That’s enough of a point for me. I don’t despair of life–indeed, I quite enjoy life and have plenty of reasons to continue living. I do fear death, but it certainly doesn’t keep me up at night or anything. > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > So what if there’s nothing when I die? A rational person would realize that the lack of an afterlife doesn’t matter - you’ll be dead, after all, and won’t know that there’s nothing after you die. Of course, but the likely lack of an afterlife bothers me now. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/63 "2010-10-05T17:18:45Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > …And if you’re going to go this route, at least expose him to some different religions. I’d like to do that, actually. We’ll see. I’m certainly not getting anywhere near any evangelical, fundamentalist sects, though. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > …I’m getting a vibe that this churchgoing is going to be limited to the RC church. Is that correct? The RC church is the only one that my wife would set foot in, so you’re probably right, so far as the whole family goes. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/64 "2010-10-05T17:39:52Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > …About the only areas where I tried to influence (other than normal parenting - self love, golden rule, honesty, hard work, competition, cooperation, etc.) were: > > 1. evolution (uhhh, yep, it happened and continues to happen) > 2. gays (no they are not bad/evil/going to hell/immoral etc.) > > These two required active work on my part due to the vocal minority pushing the opposite message. I’ve spent a great deal of effort trying to influence my son with respect to these issues, too, especially that of evolution and science in general. (My wife and I haven’t discussed homosexuality with our son all that much until relatively recently. Neither my wife nor I think that it is immoral or anything.) I still remember running into my first Young Earth Creationist (on a Navy ship) who carried around this binder clearly explaining how radiocarbon dating and most of modern science was a hoax, etc. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, my son now seems to equate _all_ religion with being anti-science, and specifically, with being anti-evolution, which wasn’t exactly my intent. All in all, though, I’m not sure I would have done things much differently than I have. I’d much rather try to introduce a bit of religion to a son who is pro-science and pro-rational thinking, than try to introduce science and rational thinking to a religious fundamentalist type. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/65 "2010-10-05T17:50:04Z")
> [@robby](#): > > > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > > > You said that in the OP, too. You don’t think there’s a point to life if there’s no reward at the end? Or is it that you feel that serving a deity makes life meaningful? > > I neither hope for a reward after death nor wish to serve a deity. I just hold onto the forlorn hope that there is some point to our existence that persists beyond this earthly life. > [@robby](#): > > > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > > > So what if there’s nothing when I die? A rational person would realize that the lack of an afterlife doesn’t matter - you’ll be dead, after all, and won’t know that there’s nothing after you die. > > Of course, but the likely lack of an afterlife bothers me now. You think that you’re “pretty rational”, but I’m not finding anything rational in these statements. What is it about the idea of an afterlife that is so comforting to you? Catholicism teaches that you have to earn your way into heaven so, if the afterlife is so important to you, why aren’t you actually trying to get into it? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/66 "2010-10-05T18:04:49Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > About the only areas where I tried to influence (other than normal parenting - self love, golden rule, honesty, hard work, competition, cooperation, etc.) were: > > 1. evolution (uhhh, yep, it happened and continues to happen) > 2. gays (no they are not bad/evil/going to hell/immoral etc.) > > These two required active work on my part due to the vocal minority pushing the opposite message. I hope you also mentioned: 1. Members of other religions and atheists (no, they are not bad/evil/going to hell/immoral/without any moral code etc.) > [@robby](#): > > Unfortunately, my son now seems to equate all religion with being anti-science, and specifically, with being anti-evolution, which wasn’t exactly my intent. Does your son know about [religioustolerance.org](http://www.religioustolerance.org/)? It’s a good place to learn what people of various faiths believe about lots of different topics, including evolution. He’d learn there that not every religion is opposed to science or to the theory of evolution. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/67 "2010-10-05T18:24:40Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > You think that you’re “pretty rational”, but I’m not finding anything rational in these statements. I’ll try an analogy. I may hope that I will win the lottery, but quite rationally realize that it is quite unlikely that this will ever happen (especially since I rarely play it). Similarly, I may hope that there is an afterlife, but quite rationally realize that it is unlikely that it exists. > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > What is it about the idea of an afterlife that is so comforting to you? I would think that would be obvious. > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > Catholicism teaches that you have to earn your way into heaven so, if the afterlife is so important to you, why aren’t you actually trying to get into it? I don’t necessarily believe in a Catholic afterlife. I’d like to believe that the afterlife is something incomprehensible to us. I believe in doing good on Earth simply because I believe it is the right thing to do, not because of some supposed reward in Heaven. Perhaps evil people go to Hell (but I don’t believe this). Perhaps good people go on to an afterlife, but evil people just cease to exist. Perhaps we all go on to an afterlife regardless of our conduct. Perhaps (indeed, most likely) there is no afterlife. I can still hope, and this hope doesn’t really affect me here and now, other than give me some slight comfort. As you say, if there is no afterlife, it doesn’t really matter, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/68 "2010-10-05T18:34:02Z")
There’s nothing wrong with taking him to church on Easter/Christmas - I disagree with posters who didn’t think that was a good idea. That’s the _best_ time to go. I really have a hard time imagining either holiday without the church service or all the religious trappings. I know (I guess) that people celebrate a “secularized” Easter as well as (obviously) Christmas, but that seems really hollow to me. Whether or not going to church on those days gives your son an appreciation for church or not, it should give him a deeper appreciation of the holidays and why they are important to religious people. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/69 "2010-10-05T19:03:07Z")
> [@robby](#): > > > [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > > > What is it about the idea of an afterlife that is so comforting to you? > > I would think that would be obvious. It’s not at all obvious. If there is an afterlife, there’s no rational reason to believe it will be better than this life. You only think it will be better because that’s what your religion taught you. It could totally suck. The idea that there’s no afterlife should, rationally, be more comforting since the lack of an afterlife means assurance that you won’t suffer after you die. I don’t think you approach these things at all rationally and your son is likely to be put off by any attempt to impose religion on him because all he will get are unsatisfying answers that only serve to reinforce his belief that it’s all baloney. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/70 "2010-10-05T19:17:13Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > There’s nothing wrong with taking him to church on Easter/Christmas - I disagree with posters who didn’t think that was a good idea. That’s the _best_ time to go. > > I really have a hard time imagining either holiday without the church service or all the religious trappings. I know (I guess) that people celebrate a “secularized” Easter as well as (obviously) Christmas, but that seems really hollow to me. Whether or not going to church on those days gives your son an appreciation for church or not, it should give him a deeper appreciation of the holidays and why they are important to religious people. There isn’t anything wrong with it, I just wouldn’t do it. Too many people. Why add to the crush of Easter/Christmas church goers if all you are going for is tourist purposes? And why waste valuable holiday time if you just want to give a kid a religious culture lesson? There are plenty of Easter/Christmas only worshipers to overfill the pews. But that’s me - I hate crowds and was a Very Practicing Catholic for most of my young life - EXCEPT on Easter and Christmas which were Holy Days of Obligation that my family didn’t participate in. So there really isn’t much special about Easter mass for me, since that wasn’t something we did on Easter. (My crowd dislike is intergenerational). ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/71 "2010-10-05T19:52:17Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > > [@robby](#): > > > > …I would say that my wife is more disgruntled than “lazy.” She simultaneously believes that the Roman Catholic church is the “only true church” yet is repelled by its policies on divorce and its teachings… > > That’s an amazingly common perspective among those who were raised Catholic, by the way. My husband’s the same way - he still considers himself Catholic, but disagrees with almost all the major positions of the Church. Nonetheless, he refuses to consider aligning himself with a different faith that more closely conforms with what he actually believes. It’s pretty weird to me. Anne Rice. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/72 "2010-10-05T20:29:11Z")
Maybe this is a really out-there, off-the-wall suggestion, but have you ever considered asking the kid what\* he\* wants to do? At 13, don’t you think he’s old enough to decide for himself? Why bother trying to expose him to religion for cultural reasons now? Do you really think there is no moral compass without religion? Do you honestly believe that a person cannot just think through the logic of a moral dilemma and choose the action that will hurt the fewest people? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/73 "2010-10-05T20:47:37Z")
OP, you’re his parent. You don’t have time to try to give him some passing familiarity with religion? Let him decide what he thinks about God, but you could have at least discussed this stuff by now. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/74 "2010-10-05T21:24:03Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > At age 12 I took a serious beating from my dad when told him I would no longer be going to church with he and mom. After he belted me a few times, and literally knocked me around the living room, I just told him he could on hitting me but it wasn’t going to change a thing. That’s pretty freaky. Was he trying to impress upon you that church is important to you spiritually, or did he take your decision as an act of disrespect to him and the family? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/75 "2010-10-05T22:48:28Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > > [@RaftPeople](#): > > > > About the only areas where I tried to influence (other than normal parenting - self love, golden rule, honesty, hard work, competition, cooperation, etc.) were: > > > > 1. evolution (uhhh, yep, it happened and continues to happen) > > 2. gays (no they are not bad/evil/going to hell/immoral etc.) > > > > These two required active work on my part due to the vocal minority pushing the opposite message. > > I hope you also mentioned: > > 1. Members of other religions and atheists (no, they are not bad/evil/going to hell/immoral/without any moral code etc.) Yep, that was all covered under the not being dogmatic about views in general, and specifically not trying to push them towards or away from religion in general or any specific religion. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/76 "2010-10-05T22:59:31Z")
OK based on your reply, I believe it is your wife that needs your reassurance that your son is fine, safe in God’s hands, and she did exactly what God needed her to do for him. And there is no guilt on her part, only her having to trust that God will guide you son. The guilt and condemnation that you expressed you wife is feeling has to be released, and by God’s very own word your son is saved through her because of God’s Love alone. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/77 "2010-10-05T23:09:21Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > At age 12 I took a serious beating from my dad when told him I would no longer be going to church with he and mom. After he belted me a few times, and literally knocked me around the living room, I just told him he could on hitting me but it wasn’t going to change a thing. > > That’s pretty freaky. Was he trying to impress upon you that church is important to you spiritually, or did he take your decision as an act of disrespect to him and the family? Who the hell knows? My whole family was terrified of my dad. Lucky for us, he was not, as a rule, physically violent. But he went into these rages and screamed his contempt of us on a more than daily bases. I used to beg my mom to leave him, and I learned later that my sisters were doing the same. Perhaps he got violent that time because it was the first time the screaming didn’t work. To his credit (which doesn’t seem like the right phrase), once he realized that beating me wasn’t working, he stopped that too. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/78 "2010-10-05T23:14:42Z")
> [@robby](#): > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > …And if you’re going to go this route, at least expose him to some different religions. > > I’d like to do that, actually. We’ll see. I’m certainly not getting anywhere near any evangelical, fundamentalist sects, though. > > > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > > > …I’m getting a vibe that this churchgoing is going to be limited to the RC church. Is that correct? > > The RC church is the only one that my wife would set foot in, so you’re probably right, so far as the whole family goes. Iif you want to be fair to your son and give him a realistic overview of religion in peoples’ lives, you SHOULD show him some of the more distasteful elements. You should also discuss news items involving religion and how religion is evidenced in the public sphere. To tell you the truth, I’m guessing an education like this may end up having more effect on you than it does on him. IMO, he is already in the right place. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/79 "2010-10-05T23:30:47Z")
If you’re going to ‘expose him to some tradition’ I think you need to be clearer with yourself about why you’re doing it. Given you’re focussing on only one religion to do this, I think there might be a bit more to it than that. The main thing I would say is you wouldnt be failing as a parent if you dont make him go to church or if you did. The more important thing would be how you discuss it with him and whether you can give him clear reasons about why you’re doing it either way. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029/80 "2010-10-05T23:57:09Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I feel like I’m completely failing as a parent here. Why do you feel you are failing as a parent? Is it because of the lack of religious education, or something else? > [@robby](#): > > That being said, I think that I would like him get some moderate exposure to some religious tradition, enough that he might have something he could turn to if necessary or if he desired later in his life. There’s also the cultural knowledge aspect that I think would be valuable. Do you mean any religious tradition, or your own personal religious tradition? If you mean any, then I would bring him to a Unitarian Universalist church, like you mention in your OP - that is the best choice (I assume that you are near to a UU church). Most UU churches have a service somewhat similar to a catholic-style service (a minister with a sermon, uu “hymns” during the service) but at a UU church you can be an atheist and also a moderate catholic without having to be hypocritical (professing to believe something in which you don’t). If your wife is totally against the UU church, then ask her how she would like to handle it. If she insists that a Catholic religious education is the only one acceptable, then I would tell her that she first needs to make peace with the Catholic hierarchy and be willing to talk to a priest. I see nothing wrong with wanting to teach your children something about religion. It would be wrong to tell him “you **must** believe in God.” My experience: my wife and I are both former Catholics, when our children were born we decided that we would like them to know something about religion, so we go to a UU church. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-dealing-with-teenagers-professed-lack-of-religious-belief/556029.md?page=5)