# Advice on how to fire someone...ugh **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185 "2011-08-18T16:01:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/41 "2011-08-20T00:46:03Z")
So, it’s Friday. Did you DTMFA yet? ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/42 "2011-08-20T02:58:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > So, it’s Friday. Did you DTMFA yet? Well, HR is on vacation and we’re not a fire on friday kind of place, but here’s the latest: I’ve been a bit baffled by the kinds of errors she makes, if I give her instructions for one kind of task she’s not able to make logical decisions about how those instructions relate to other, similar tasks. She transposes numbers, she posts payments with the wrong date for part of the day and the correct date for another part of the day. Sometimes she’s really sweet and sometimes she seems to really enjoy being juuust a little bit mean to our constituents. She writes procedural notes that make no sense or actually say the opposite of what she meant. ANYWAY Today I leaned over her shoulder to look at something on her screen aaaand…got a whiff of the ganja. So I guess that penny has dropped. These are exactly the kinds of errors that a stoner would make (been there done that myself way back when) It would also explain why she has no rational way to explain how the errors happened (or desire to talk about them and improve), and why none of the helpful strategies actually help. I didn’t comment about it at all, because now this is a different problem all together. I have no issue with enjoying the happy herb, but we work with children and their parents so it’s philosophically inappropriate at best. If I speak to HR about this she’ll probably be walked out the door five minutes later, but I have no proof and there’s always the chance that she’s using it medicinally and that could be legally tricky. I have no idea what to do next. My instinct is to just move forward regarding her work performance and leave this part alone, but at least the mystery part seems to be solved. Still sucks though, thanks for asking. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/43 "2011-08-20T03:05:57Z")
**moejoe** - Can you request a drug screening? StG ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/44 "2011-08-20T03:15:36Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > If I speak to HR about this she’ll probably be walked out the door five minutes later Well, there you go. Do that and your problems are solved–it’s bye bye bitch time. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/45 "2011-08-20T03:21:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Well, there you go. Do that and your problems are solved–it’s bye bye bitch time. Maybe. Or maybe I’m being naive and it’s oh no, I never use drugs and you can’t prove it and I’m going to sue you. Or I do use it for medical purposes and I have an ID card and now you can’t fire me ever or I’ll sue you. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/46 "2011-08-20T03:22:54Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > **moejoe** - Can you request a drug screening? > > StG No, it would be the first one ever in an almost 50 year history of the organization. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/47 "2011-08-20T03:27:45Z")
> [@moejoe](#): > > Maybe. Or maybe I’m being naive and it’s oh no, I never use drugs and you can’t prove it and I’m going to sue you. Or I do use it for medical purposes and I have an ID card and now you can’t fire me ever or I’ll sue you. You’ve got quite a knack for ferreting out those downside scenarios. But they don’t happen all the time, you know. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/48 "2011-08-20T03:58:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You’ve got quite a knack for ferreting out those downside scenarios. But they don’t happen all the time, you know. I sure hope you’re right. Also heh, downside scenarios are a big part of what i do for a living. Maybe I need to get out more? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/49 "2011-08-20T05:05:23Z")
> [@Full\_Metal\_Lotus](#): > > I most politely disagree. Do terminate on a Friday. It doesn’t have to be an afternoon, though. There are several good reasons for this: > > 1. Cool Off Period. The former employee has the weekend to cool off, and consider a plan of action for the coming week. Addditionally their friends and family are more likely to be available for support on the weekend. Finally, Employment Insurance will take a wek or two minimum, so an extra week end in there is not going to affect things too greatly. They will have their severance, holiday pay and outstanding wages anyway. > > 2. The other employees will have less chance and motivation to be upset, gossip, speculate or otherwise engage in demotivational activities resulting from the action. > > 3. Monday will be a fresh slate for you, your other staff and even the terminated employee. Firing during the rest week taints the whole week. > > 4. Studies have statistically shown that there’s less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week. ---
**Author:** ![breezman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@breezman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breezman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/50 "2011-08-20T13:57:38Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Clearly, you need to call in NORM PETERSON. Bwahahahaha. You beat me to this joke! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/51 "2011-08-20T14:41:26Z")
Why use the drug issue? You’ve got other reasons for firing her, and if you bring up drugs, then she probably won’t be eligible for unemployment benefits. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/52 "2011-08-20T14:43:58Z")
We have a very small operation with one employee at any given time and I’ve had to terminate several people so I probably won’t be much help. It never makes me feel good to fire anyone-especially as two of our employees were convicted felons with very little chance of finding another decent paying job in today’s economy. However, in each case, the person effectively fired themself. The rules are very simple on my farm and the routine is pretty repetitious. If you 1) consistently fail to show up on time; 2) call in sick or 3) neglect to perform the tasks required then you obviously don’t want the job. ---
**Author:** ![Uber\_the\_Goober](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/58956e/32.png) [@Uber\_the\_Goober](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uber_the_Goober)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/53 "2011-08-20T15:37:36Z")
Hrm…I must be the most callous person on this board. I would just say: “Hey, remember those performance issues we discussed earlier? They haven’t improved, and you’ve shown me no indication that they will. That’s something this company takes seriously. As much as this really hurts, I need to let you know that your employment is being terminated - effective immediately.” To the point, and it shows her WHY she’s being fired, without being all clinical about it. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/54 "2011-08-20T16:23:22Z")
You might have two options here: 1) move her into a spot with less responsibility (or something that better suits her ineptitude lol…or 2) if you have to fire her you can honestly say, “This is coming from higher-up.” And can you wait six months? If she’s 60 now, she can draw unemployment for…(what is it----24 months?) Because when she turns 62 and a half she can start getting Social Security & you don’t have to feel guilty. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/55 "2011-08-20T16:30:46Z")
I wholeheartedly agree that keeping an under performing employee around causes morale problems and resentment from other employees who have to do extra work to correct this employee’s fuck ups. Then when another employee makes a minor mistake and you correct them for it in a polite way, the first thought is “Why are you riding my ass when Employee X fucks up every single day?!?” A bad employee is like a cancer for an organization. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/56 "2011-08-20T16:56:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Why use the drug issue? You’ve got other reasons for firing her, and if you bring up drugs, then she probably won’t be eligible for unemployment benefits. So what? That’s better for the employer anyway–it may not count against them for unemployment insurance purposes. Really the attitude of some people in this thread is rather unbelievable (well, not really, with the SDMB being what it is). If an employer has a bad employee they want to get rid of, the only relevant considerations are how to get rid of the employee as quickly as possible with as little harm to the employer as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/57 "2011-08-20T17:23:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Really the attitude of some people in this thread is rather unbelievable (well, not really, with the SDMB being what it is). Admittedly, the OP started with the concern over her future and such. If he’d just said ‘she sucks and I need to fire her, but want to make sure I’m covering all the bases - oh yeah, and the other employees might freak out, what do I do there?’ then I expect there’d be a lot fewer suggestions about how to mitigate the problems for the to-be-fired employee. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/58 "2011-08-20T17:31:39Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Admittedly, the OP started with the concern over her future and such. If he’d just said ‘she sucks and I need to fire her, but want to make sure I’m covering all the bases - oh yeah, and the other employees might freak out, what do I do there?’ then I expect there’d be a lot fewer suggestions about how to mitigate the problems for the to-be-fired employee. Yes, that was the issue, how do I fire her without ruining her life. She’s getting fired, I just want to be as kind as possible about it. First because she’s a human being and no matter how much she sucks I still think she deserves respect and kindness. Second because I don’t want anyone out there in the world badmouthing the company by saying we fire people in a cruel or careless way, or claiming age/weight discrimination. Maybe I should just call in the Bobs and have them fix the glitch. ---
**Author:** ![AndyLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@AndyLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyLee)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/59 "2011-08-20T18:22:44Z")
Most places have a three strikes and your out policy. Sometimes that backfires, but after the second warning, the person should be looking for another job and being fired should be no surprise to them I mention this, as when I was in college I worked as a cashier and sucked at it. So by the time I got my second warning (You got a warning everytime you were +/- a dollar), I was like, “Well I **am** trying I just suck at it.” So who cares, and I got really lax in all my work. I just goofed off for a month till I came up short ($2.00) and was let go. I didn’t care as it was only a college job and I found another, but truthfully the company would’ve been better off firing me earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185/60 "2011-08-20T18:27:56Z")
OK FH, understood, but really moejoe does appear to be (properly imo) thinking about the employer angle in the issues about not pissing her off. Others seem to ve thinking only about the convenience and comfort of the employee as an end unto itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-how-to-fire-someone-ugh/593185.md?page=4)