# Advice on replacing car brakes needed. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 15, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486 "2009-03-15T02:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/21 "2009-03-20T13:01:33Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > The torque spec for the caliper anchor plate bolts is 76 lb-ft, and they almost certainly have Loctite on them. Now that I have the proper tools assembled, would you happen to have the torque spec for the caliper bolts handy? Should I put Loctite on them or the anchor plate bolts? TIA. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/22 "2009-03-20T13:16:17Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > Now that I have the proper tools assembled, would you happen to have the torque spec for the caliper bolts handy? Should I put Loctite on them or the anchor plate bolts? Do NOT put Lotite on the caliper bolts. Torque spec for them is 26 lb-ft. The official instructions for the anchor plate bolts say to discard the old bolts and use new ones. The bolts have some kind of one-time-use threadlocker already applied to the threads (I don’t know exactly what it is, I said “Loctite” to get the idea across). In practice, hardly anyone uses new bolts, but it would be wise to use some blue Loctite (see posts #8 & #9 above). ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/23 "2009-03-20T15:57:51Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Otherwise known as **Get it as tight as it will go and then go 1/2 turn more** 🙂 That’s not a very good description of the [method known as](http://www.boltscience.com/pages/tighten.htm); > [@](#): > > Angle Controlled Tightening > This method, also known as _ **turn of the nut method** _, was introduced for manual assembly shortly after the second World War when a certain tightening angle was specified. The method has been applied for use with power wrenches, the bolt being tightened to a predetermined angle beyond the elastic range and results in a small variation in the preload due, in part, to the yield stress tolerance. The main disadvantages of this method lie in the necessity for precise, and, if possible, experimental determination of the angle; also the fastener can only sustain a limited number of re-applications before it fails. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/24 "2009-03-20T16:03:48Z")
> [@Gbro](#): > > That’s not a very good description of the method known as Angle Controlled Tightening It wasn’t meant to be - it was a joke, similar to “tighten it until it breaks and then tighten it a half turn less than that so it doesn’t break.” ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/25 "2009-03-20T16:05:07Z")
> [@Gbro](#): > > That’s not a very good description of the [method known as](http://www.boltscience.com/pages/tighten.htm); I think I’ll stick with the torque wrench. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/26 "2009-03-20T16:11:05Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > I think I’ll stick with the torque wrench. You need one either way, but the tightening method is chosen by the engineers and the specs reflect it. For example, it might either be “tighten to 100 lb-ft” OR “tighten to 75 lb-ft, then an additional 90 degrees.” It’s not something decided upon in the field. ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/27 "2009-03-20T16:15:58Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Since we’re talking about getting the required torque on bolts, and the thread’s been basically answered, this is as good as any time to mention how shitty it was torquing bolts this week. We had a 300 lbf torque wrench, but that only got us half way there. We had to use a 1:4 torque multiplier to get to 600lbf, and we were _still_ putting 150lbf on each bolt! I weigh just under 250lbs, but holy crap that was some hard torquing. It’s quite impressive to see a 3/4 inch drive Proto breaker bar busted. Been there, done that! They didn’t call us the “Bull Gang” cause we are all big dumb and ugly, even tho that is a very accurate description of the crew I was a part of for 32 years. (some were runts, ugly runts if you will). New technology has us tightening 1-1/2" and up bolts with a 3/8" ratchet and 9/16" socket.:o [They are called "Super Bolts, or Multi-Jackbolt Tensioners.](http://www.superbolt.com/question001.html) Very expensive, but very nice to work with. ---
**Author:** ![Gbro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Gbro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gbro)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/28 "2009-03-20T16:19:39Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > You need one either way, but the tightening method is chosen by the engineers and the specs reflect it. For example, it might either be “tighten to 100 lb-ft” **OR “tighten to 75 lb-ft, then an additional 90 degrees.”** It’s not something decided upon in the field. And there you go correctly describing “Turn of the nut/bolt method”:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/29 "2009-03-21T04:33:07Z")
> [@Gbro](#): > > That’s not a very good description of the [method known as](http://www.boltscience.com/pages/tighten.htm); **WHOOSH!** 🙂 > [@Gary\_T](#): > > It wasn’t meant to be - it was a joke, similar to “tighten it until it breaks and then tighten it a half turn less than that so it doesn’t break.” Tighten it up till it starts to get loose then back off 1/4 turn. Or you can always follow the German torque spec. Gute and tight. > [@Gbro](#): > > And there you go correctly describing “Turn of the nut/bolt method”:dubious: More commonly known as angle torque or torque to yield. IMHO this is the best way to tighten a fastener. It does not matter if the bolt is dirty, or if the hole is dirty, or if the bolt is lubed or not. You tighten the bolt to a set (low) torque and then a specified additional angle. Connecting rods for example tighten to 20Nm (14.75 Ft lbs) and then an additional 90 degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/30 "2009-03-21T16:35:13Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > That’s a buncha torque. I suspect it was on something a wee bit bigger than a Taurus. 😃 Just a bit. 😛 > [@Rick](#): > > Otherwise known as **Get it as tight as it will go and then go 1/2 turn more** 🙂 Na, that’s not nearly tight enough for our applications. We use the **tighten it until it strips, and then back off 1/2 a turn** method. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > It wasn’t meant to be - it was a joke, similar to “tighten it until it breaks and then tighten it a half turn less than that so it doesn’t break.” Slightly different than the method I mentioned above, but I actually use this method when installing break bolts. If you know where they’re going to break, and don’t reach that threshhold, that’s just about perfect. > [@Gbro](#): > > Been there, done that! > They didn’t call us the “Bull Gang” cause we are all big dumb and ugly, even tho that is a very accurate description of the crew I was a part of for 32 years. (some were runts, ugly runts if you will). > New technology has us tightening 1-1/2" and up bolts with a 3/8" ratchet and 9/16" socket.:o > [They are called "Super Bolts, or Multi-Jackbolt Tensioners.](http://www.superbolt.com/question001.html) > Very expensive, but very nice to work with. Hey, I’m not dumb! Those Superbolts are cool. We use them when we’re looking for just a bit more torque. For those that don’t want to go to the link, they have 12 quarter inch bolts in a pattern around the bolthead. The small bolts are threaded through the bolthead, and provide tension in the bolt by putting force between the bolthead and the washer. Neat stuff! Upon preview of the rest of the thread, **Rick** covered most of that already. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/31 "2009-03-21T17:12:57Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > I think I’ll stick with the torque wrench. So? How did it work out of you? I already had a 1/2" bar and had to go buy a 15mm socket for ti. Again, I had no luck. Thing is I’ve taken those bolts out before using just a standard wrench, well a standard wrench and a big rubber mallet. Next time someone else is doing it for me! ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/32 "2009-03-21T23:04:58Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > So? How did it work out of you? I already had a 1/2" bar and had to go buy a 15mm socket for ti. Again, I had no luck. Thing is I’ve taken those bolts out before using just a standard wrench, well a standard wrench and a big rubber mallet. Next time someone else is doing it for me! I ended up using the 1/2 breaker with a 1/2 -\> 3/8 converter and a 3/8 15mm. Oh, and about a 3 foot cheater. They came off without any problem. They’re now good as new. Or at least as good as a computer nerd can get them. Thanks to everyone for their help. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/33 "2009-03-22T02:00:14Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I have changed my own brakes for over 20 years. And I’ve never used a torque wrench. I know I’m supposed to, but I’ve never had a problem. I assume it’s because I tighten them pretty tightly, but I doubt they are at exact specs. Getting the bolts really tight is NOT the reason for using a torque wrench. Over-tightening can be just as bad. An over tight bolt can be under too much stress and fail (break) under heat or load. An overly tightened bolt may also damage the part that it is holding, causing cracks and failure. And the SAME amount of torque on each bolt is important. That’s impossible to judge by feel. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/34 "2009-03-22T02:28:44Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Getting the bolts really tight is NOT the reason for using a torque wrench. Over-tightening can be just as bad. An over tight bolt can be under too much stress and fail (break) under heat or load. An overly tightened bolt may also damage the part that it is holding, causing cracks and failure. > > And the SAME amount of torque on each bolt is important. That’s impossible to judge by feel. In my 30’ish years of shade-tree mechanics I’ve never had a bolt simply come loose, nor have I had a bolt break due to over-stress. I have however snapped wheel studs after someone else installed tires and cranked the damned things too tight. This has happened on two occasions and I’ve replaced the wheel studs myself without too much difficulty. For most applications snugging the bolt up and relying upon judgement seems to have worked fine for the amount of torque. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/35 "2009-03-22T02:32:24Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > I ended up using the 1/2 breaker with a 1/2 -\> 3/8 converter and a 3/8 15mm. Oh, and about a 3 foot cheater. They came off without any problem. They’re now good as new. Or at least as good as a computer nerd can get them. > > Thanks to everyone for their help. Is a three foot cheater a purchased item? I tried extending my reach with a scrap piece of copper pipe; copper isn’t very strong. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/36 "2009-03-22T02:49:03Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Is a three foot cheater a purchased item? I tried extending my reach with a scrap piece of copper pipe; copper isn’t very strong. Not that I know of (although it should be). I have a 3 foot section of iron pipe that I keep around for just such occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/37 "2009-03-22T03:04:19Z")
I inherited a 98 Ford Taurus that I sold in 2006. We used to have ungodly issues with the front rotors warping. My dad kept buying the cheap rotors from autozone and it seems that in no time they would be warped again. Finally in frustration we broke down and asked a mechanics advice. According to him this was a known problem with Taurus’s of that year range. His recommendation was to shell out the extra money for high quality rotors, and make sure we tightened the lugnuts to the manufactures spec. That seemed to do the trick. Not sure if you are experiencing abnormal wear but thought I would throw in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486/38 "2009-03-22T03:17:09Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > I inherited a 98 Ford Taurus that I sold in 2006. We used to have ungodly issues with the front rotors warping. My dad kept buying the cheap rotors from autozone and it seems that in no time they would be warped again. Finally in frustration we broke down and asked a mechanics advice. According to him this was a known problem with Taurus’s of that year range. His recommendation was to shell out the extra money for high quality rotors, and make sure we tightened the lugnuts to the manufactures spec. That seemed to do the trick. Not sure if you are experiencing abnormal wear but thought I would throw in my experience. Hmmm. We’ll see. At least I know that the lugnuts are torqued correctly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/advice-on-replacing-car-brakes-needed/489486.md?page=1)